Hybrid Turbos & "Stages"

Hybrid Turbo Overview

I thought I’d put together a list of the hybrid turbos commonly used on the 20VT. The turbos are listed in a rough order from the standard turbo (least power) to the largest spec (most power) you can fit, and includes commonly referred to names.

Hybrid turbo definition
Hybrid turbos are a standard turbo which has had part of its internals changed from the standard specification and is a direct replacement for the original turbo. A GT series turbo requires a V-band adaptor or a 5 stud downpipe eg GT28RS.

The turbos which have been refurbished should have a 360° thrust bearing & staggered gap seals. These refurbished turbos, hybrid or not, will be able to safely run a decat without the risk of blowing the turbo seals, which is common for the Fiat factory fitted TB28. Each turbo has two sides, a “hot side” the exhaust turbine, and a “cold side” the compressor.

Standard Turbo:
50 trim compressor, 0.6 actuator & 62 trim exhaust turbine.

Hybrid Turbos:
55 trim compressor (Superspool Barbz)
60 trim compressor (CR Turbos Stage 1 & Power Italia Stage 1)
60 trim compressor & 0.8 actuator (GTiR Barbz)
62 trim compressor & 0.8 actuator (GTiRS Barbz)
62 trim compressor, 0.8 actuator & 76 trim high flow exhaust turbine. (CR Turbos Stage 2 & Power Italia Stage 2, FC Performance Stage 3).

Additional Information
Barbz may have supplied his GTiR without the 0.8 actuator which would make it the same as the “Stage 1” turbo from CR Turbos / Power Italia.

Power
Referencing the FC Performance Dyno Thread, the potential for any of the hybrid turbos with supporting mods is between 280bhp (Superspool / Stage 1) up to 350bhp for the Stage 2 / Stage 3 turbo. Flea mapped refurbished standard turbos with or without a decat seem to range from 247bhp - 288bhp (Listed as TB28 in the dyno thread).

"Stage" 1 is a not a standard turbo
The standard refurbished turbos have been quoted as a "stage 1" hybrid numerous times, and stage 1 numbers from the dyno table being linked to the standard turbo (TB28). Flea has confirmed that these refurbished standard turbos are NOT listed a hybrid stage 1, they are listed as a TB28. TimC's car has the highest listed power as a stage 1, with a 60 trim compressor, and so it is NOT a standard turbo.

FC Performance are now offering new listings of hybrid turbos, unfortunately this list does not come with the turbo specs.

pretty sure that Barbz gtirs uses a the standard turbine wheel as oppose to the larger 76trim turbine wheel

the standard turbine trim is 62trim as oppose to 60trim,

other than that fair play to you for putting this post up, should hopefully clear things up for a few folk

Cheers for that Doug. Made the amendments to the exhaust turbine.

I've just been through an old PM from Barbz and updated the list.

Correct, but I do have the 0.8 bar actuator that Rog provided as an option - not sure if this makes a difference

Ah ha! Maybe that makes it a stage 2 for FC Performance? You're listed as stage 1 in the dyno table, but stage 2 in your "Hybrid Power!!" thread?!

Thanks for the reply Tim!

TimC Has my stage 1 but with the optional uprated actuator, just to confuse things a little more.

Stage 1 = 60 trim (optional 0.8 bar actuator)
stage 2 = 62 trim with larger turbine wheel (uprated actuator included).

An FMIC is essential with a stage 2 and advised with a stage 1 to get the most from the turbo's spec.


Doesnt barbz do an ultraspool GT28RS but with V band turbine housing? He used to, and it was a good unit for roller bearing power without the aggro of sourcing a downpipe or adapter.

I just had a 'Stage 3' equivelent from Barbz, he called it a GTiRS with 62 trim but standard turbine and .8bar actuator. It was a CR Turbo's unit.

More editing done, cheers chaps! I think this is closing in on a definitive list! Anything else is welcomed.

hey bud, cheers for knocking this up, can you emphasize that a re con t28 with 360 bearings and staggered seals isnt anything more than a T28. everyone thinks its a stage 1. good work

The turbo boost characteristics may be unchanged but its more robust so you can safely decat and a staggered seal means less oil will leak out helping to avoid the problems that causes.

Do I detect sarcasm in this post? You've highlighted the very problem. People think a recon standard turbo is a stage 1 then look at the dyno thread and think it will make 300bhp+ when it simply won't.

no sarcasm dude,. you have hit the cow on the arse there
(People think a recon standard turbo is a stage 1 then look at the dyno thread and think it will make 300bhp+ when it simply won't.

Ah sorry, I misinterpreted your post. Hopefully this will help clear up a few misunderstandings as to what's what!

Following on from this thread

as per my original post cheers mate,

Are Hybrid turbo's marked/stamped???

I know that I have one, I suspect a small trim but I wouldn't want it any other way as it spools up very quickly with a remap, decat and only 2x straight through silencers and a SIP.
Even the Evo Fmic does not seem to create loss in spool up.
with the handling modifications it is devestating in real world terms and does NOT understeer unless hard on the throttle/boost mid corner in low gears. I love this turbo for having fully usable power.
must get it remapped though for peace of mind.

yours is a superspool. i loved this turbo when i owned the car :-) you managed to get the clutch sorted and it running at 1.3bar yet? its running one of barbz remaps if its not been changed since i had it. dont really know much more about it though.

Hey mate.. Yes! Although on a lower boost and driven not too aggresively clutch slip was minimal. First replaced the thermostat.
Then after a while I decided to take off the road for a couple of months so did the clutch and decided to change anything that would be easy whilst the gearbox was out

Hence renewed the brake pipes in the engine bay,
Did the Coolant hose of death, serviced the engine
renewed all fluids.
Then... started to really willy around.. decided to put some 3G front discs and pagid yellow pads as one old LE disc was a bit ropey also mintex rear discs and pads,
renewed wishbones and drop links
cleaned engine bay and sprayed rocker cover and strut brace.

also
fitted Xenon head lights which are a great upgrade and have got Led side lights to match.
Forge re-circ valve which is quiet when driven normally and through the Ramair gives a nice sharp pssssht at high boost.
Also now running camber bolts.

Car is up at 1.3 bar and really flies

back on topic, the car is very good on twisty roads and I genuinely would not want for any more bhp

superspools are quality i love mine

yeah the clutch wasnt that bad, but once id driven it at 1.3bar it had to be 1.3bar or nothing for me lol. i remember taking you out in it when you bought it and it held fine at 1.1bar then. difference is i didnt have the know how to change it if it decided to go and was undrivable so decided to sell when i did. im pleased your happy with it. barbz said it was running 305bhp when he done the work, but it didnt have the exhaust system on then its got on now. did you get the aquamist running? yeah the ramair kit is impressive. shame i couldnt show you it when you bought it lol. i miss the 5 pot sound sooooo much :-(.

Even at 1.1 bar it is very responsive, but yes.. 1.3 bar is where the car performs best, seems leagues ahead of my original 20vt with Gtech 1, although I think the exhaust and sip allow the best from the 55 trim superspool.

Yes, did get the aquamist operating was the pressure switch that was not operating fully, although only ran the aquamist a few times in the hot summer last year.
Love the car to bits as it has such a wide power band.

happy for you mate. definitely miss it myself, maybe go back to one, one day. not sure if i could afford to run one at the min though with the price of vpower!! i recognise the pic in your sig too. it was one of those look back at your car moments and i had to have a pic taken lol that car used to keep up with my mates 400bhp evo :-)

Is the pic that made me enquire about the car. Hence decided to use it, lol


I can believe the superspool is achieving around 300bhp, depending on the rolling road.
(boostmecoupeup) is running a similar tuning spec and running 304bhp mapped by Flea.

would it not be a good idea once the list of hybrids is finalised and references as to what kind of power can be acheived from them to add this to 'the knowledge' as that seems to dismiss hybrids and concentrates on garrett's gt series

while hybrids may not have the most up to date technology largely because they don't have a ball bearing centre housing, for most people they are the first step folk take when upgrading there turbo and as seen from the power now being acheived from them, a hugely effective one

That sounds like a great idea.

Well done Gunzi, a truly useful post

Thanks Phil. Not sure I make too many of those!

hi gunzi,

after getting lost in your very detailed but all over the place thread, i came up with a few things,

can you also emphasize the following,

A Hybrid Turbo is a standard turbo that has had any work carried out on it to alter the way it performs as compared to standard, it is still the v band adapter - GtiR, etc


A GT series turbo is a 5stud- ie GT28R /RS/RSR which requires a different down pipe.

And that its pointless trying to define turbos in stages, as everyone still has no clue whats what.
how about we all just learn the trims and refer to the turbos as a 60 trim etc

Ive always understood a Hybrid to be a standard turbo, housing with reworked internals.
can someone confirm.

Garrett (and other turbo manufacturers) have a huge range of parts. "standard" turbos are specific combinations of these parts, sometimes put together to meet a car manufacturers specification and sometimes put together by Garrett themselves to be sold as aftermarket 'upgrades'.

If you take a 'standard' turbo and modify it away from specification by fitting a bigger turbine wheel or a bigger compressor wheel, machining turbine and/or compressor housings to suit or fitting a different design, A/R or size of housing, or machining turbine wheels to allow them to pass more exhaust gas with lower back pressure then the result will be a hybrid turbo.

Because of the huge range of parts available there is potentially a huge range of hybrids which could be put together. For this reason, one manufacturers or tuners "Stage 3" cannot readily be compared with someone elses "Stage 3" as they may have used a different combination of parts to achieve the same results.

Sadly, just knowing the trim of the compressor wheel used does not give sufficient information to judge whether turbo 'A' will have more power potential than turbo 'B'. For example, which flows more - a T04E 54 trim or a T04E 50 trim?

The 50 trim wheel flows more, not least because the 50 trim wheel is 76.2mm in diameter (exducer) and the 54 trim wheel is only 75mm diameter (exducer). Compressor wheels can also have different numbers of blades - Garrett have compressors with 6, 7 even 8 blades in their range, some more efficient than others and some flowing more than others for the same diameter and trim. The 50 trim T04E is capable of a maximum pressure ratio of 3.4:1 whereas the 54 trim can only manage 3.1:1 - so less flow and lower boost capability.

Have a read here for an idea of the modifications possible to make a hybrid:

http://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/services/turbo-upgrades/

I've done some tidying on the original thread so it's easier to read and understand. Any further comments on the list welcomed.