My RR Result with a Garrett GT2871R .64

My Spec:
- ECUMASTER EMU stand alone + p&p harness from Walas Motorsport
- Forged engine with ZRP rods and Wossner pistons
- Garrett GT2871R .64, 1.15b actuator with ported internal WG + bigger flapper
- 630cc Bosch injectors
- 255lph Deatschwerks DW200 fuel pump
- 3.8b Bosch FPR
- LSU 4.2 Bosch wideband
- EGT sensor
- colder spark plugs
- 3" ID exhaust system from turbo with two silencers
- 3" SIP + Apexi Cone filter
- 450x230mm FMIC
- Bigger oil cooler
- No MAF
- Sachs Racing 4-puk clutch disc
- Deltaparts pressure plate
- Flat shift
- Launch control
- many safety features

Result: 350bhp & 350lbft


BTW - GT2871R with small housing is prone to huge boost spikes and running much higher EGT temps than a .86 housing. I will be changing to a bigger housing in the future.

Nice work! How much boost were you running?
Is that with the std 56T compressor?

Peak was 1.7b but just for a moment, steady 1.6 tailing off to 1.4 - 1.3b.
Yes, standard compressor.

Results is quite good but I think you have some kind of restriction somewhere : you should be around 380hp instead of 350...which turbo flange do you use ?

Although, your intercooler seems too small (I think it's 230mm high and 76mm thick with 57-60mm ID at inlet/outlet isn't it ? -> that may explain your torque falling with rpm rising)

When you speak about high EGT, what do you mean ?

EDIT : going with 0.86 AR will give you much lag, unless you only do drag strip, you shouldn't do this mod.

This is about max what you can get from this turbo and 98RON fuel. 380bhp or 400bhp would be possible if I used 100+ octane fuel which I am not going to do as it is not widely available in Poland. What do you mean by turbo flange? It is Standard T25 with 5-bolt exit.

The IC is just enough, but I might be changing it to TRE Performance in the near future to consistently keep IAT low.

I meant that my EGT occasionally can reach 800-850*C. But then again the ECU's safety features will kick in.

No, .86 will not give much more lag as it has been proved by the very same tuner who mapped my Coupe. A friend of my had the same setup but ported manifold and made 331bhp. Then they changed turbo housing to .86 and he instantly made more power and torque, his EGTs have considerably dropped, and the increase in lag was minimal like 100-150rpm which is nothing...

Depends on the supporting mods - I ran way over 400bhp with exactly the same turbo. 350bhp is well inside the capabilities

What boost control are you using?

GT28's are not that big 400 bhp max. GT30 would be more comfortable and lag wise there is nothing in it. GT30??'s are 400+ all day long.

800-850°C ?... I often see 950°C+ on my 16VT and no problem.

I'm a little surprised because 330-350hp is what we get with GT28RS and AR.64 at 1.5bar on 20VT and 2871R is a much bigger wheel.



There are 500hp+ coupe running with gt2871R + e85 in France so even with RON98, I guess you can get 450hp at least.

The GT2871r are rated to 400 bhp, so how do you see more than that on a coupe?

Garrett GT2871r spec

You improve several other aspects of the system - I run a bigger intake, big exhaust, worked head, high lift cams etc - the result was

The quote on the TD specs is just an estimate - it can't be accurate because it cannot know what its bolted to....

They will only ever flow so much though......

Dont really want to go down this avenue, but all dynos vary.

Find me another/any other car with a gt28?? making 460bhp

Maurizio, we can go down this avenue together.

Guys, I don't think that you are realistic saying that you can get 400+ from a gt2871r on 98RON or even RON100 fuel.. If you look at the compressor wheel map you will understand that 450bhp is not what you can get out of a gt2871r .64 on our engines.

I will give you another example - same setup as my plus fully rebuilt engine and: fully worked head + meth injection + cnc wheel upgrade + 100RON fuel + octane booster + .86 hot side = 405bhp.

So, similar setup as your Nigel minus high lift cams. Did you run RON103 to make that power? Did you have meth injection? Did you have the internal wg ported?

Yes, 400+ with e85 is possible though.

If you think you got 350bhp out of gt28rs or 450bhp out of gt2871r then let's record and share 100-200km/h runs.

- Yes, wastegate was ported to handle the high boost I was running (up to 2 bar....). That said, I know the dyno used is sometimes flattering and the 457bhp figure is optimistic. However, I doubt that its 57bhp optimistic...




I don't have the GT2871R any more (it died after 150,000 miles). However, I ran a best quarter mile time of 12.38 with it fitted, with a terminal of just under 115.59mph (186km/h).

Lifting the 1/8 mile figures from the timing slip showed that I did 91mph / 147km/h to 115mph / 186km/h in 4.28 seconds - you may be able to extrapolate a 100-200km/h time from that

Well then Nigel, I assume your 100-200km/h would probably be just under 10s, right?

See how this 340bhp 20vt Coupe goes. It belongs to my friend and it was tuned by the same company who tuned my 20vt: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Km4Bt0OvE3g

Do you still believe you had anywhere near 457bhp with the gt2871r?

No - I think it would be less

I've done zero to 200km/h in about 13.5 seconds - at Ten of the Best I did a "granny start" for the top speed run and managed to do a 13.5 quarter mile with a 121mph terminal. Seeing as my 0-60 time is about 5 to 5.5 seconds, I estimate my 60-120 time at about 8.0 to 8.5 seconds

Shame we cannot verify that.

Did you ever look into the compressor map to see what bhp you can achieve from a fiat 2.0 20vt with gt2871r?

You know what, would you like to check what 62-124mph time you can do with your current setuposition and share your results? I will do the same. We will see if the difference is 100bhp+?

I can't do anything at the moment, as I have broken another gearbox - awaiting fitting of a replacement

This is a friend of mine with gt2871R AR .64 20VT, around 1.8bar, external wastegate on stock exhaust manifold, E85, no head porting and original camshafts :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7FHDg4WM9c

He went on the dyno 2-3weeks after : 500hp+ at 1.9 bar

I guess his 100-200 is less than 8's

Julien, let's compare apples to apples. E85 is a bit different than RON98

Yes you're right it's different.
Anyway this coupe before was running on RON98 at 1.7 bar (ext wg also) and passed M5 V10 (500hp+).
GT2871 is a big compressor turbo (especially with 56trim) so with right exhaust flowing, you can see very good power

Yes E85 is not comparable to what we are discussing....but still interesting to hear.

To be fair a V10 M5 is nearly 2 tons. You would pass one with 400bhp.

I too thought the power output for this GT2871R 0.64 was a little low at 350bhp so I’ve been keeping an eye on this thread. Having now seen the 10.4 100-200kph time, I’m going to pipe up!

Mine put out 420bhp on the same dyno that Nigel’s made 457bhp. A few years ago mine made 342bhp on this same dyno while running a GT28RS 0.64. It also went on a local dyno with the same spec and made 315bhp. Nobody knows which is correct or closer to the truth but having them all run on the same dyno is useful for comparative reasons so I like having both results so I can compare my set up with people’s cars that have been on either of these dynos.

Although mine hasn’t been on the lower reading dyno with the current 420bhp spec, I estimate it would make just under 390bhp (I really should do this). Nigel’s 457bhp would be in the region of 425bhp I expect.

Now, I have my own Performance Box so I strapped it in and went out in mine last night to attempt a quick 100-200 test. Unfortunately, the misfire that was fixed the day before has returned and so I couldn’t get a reading…

Using my performance calculator to work out how quick the 342bhp dyno result would be from 100-200kph, I get 10.68 seconds. This is perfectly in-line with your pal’s 340bhp 10.4s.

For the record, my estimate for my car based on my calculator is 9.28 seconds. I’ll report back when I have the answer. I’d also estimate that Nigel would be 8 seconds dead based on a lower 425bhp peak power.

Nigel, do you have all of the results from that timing slip by any chance?

Ah Trappy, the impartial voice of reason when if comes to "stats"

Good results. But you did not have a GT28RS?

Does that turbo have much lag compared to the other one you had?

My times are on the right - this is my best ever ET, but not my highest ever terminal

I had GT28RS just before the engine went pop.

Not much more lag at all. Actually, feels like there is no difference in spool. I will record and let you know when I reach the boost threshold next time I drive the car.

Yes, I'm interested in seeing it.

I was able to get the car out with the Performance Box last night. Here are the results for both the 100-200kph (9.9s) and also the 91-115mph (4.3s) that Nigel mentioned.



I started in third gear the same as your pal in the video above for consistency. I mention this as my car has been mapped for mechanical sympathy as it’s still running standard rods and bolts. This means that the torque has been reined in, peaking at only 328lbs/ft. On the road, this leads to a very progressive delivery and so roll from 100kph / 60mph is best described as ‘leisurely’ at the start. When it gets moving though it really goes


I certainly would not expect the same from Nigel’s car as he not only ran it at full torque but he’s also has a fair amount of headwork completed.

I should also state that I'm not using a GT2871r. Instead it's one of Flea's own creations and is very similar to his Sabre450R. How this compares to a 2871R I'm not entirely sure but it appears to be quite similar from what I can tell...

I hope all this helps

Good post Trappy - very interesting that your car is almost identical to mine on the 91-115 test (ie the second half of the quarter mile). It would seem that its the shape of the power curve that has a lot to do with acceleration times, as "area under the curve" is what gives a decent spread of power, rather than an impressive, but short peak figure.

Maybe one day, we can plug your performance box into my car and go for a blast up your extremely long driveway.....

Cheers for sharing the results Trappy!

Your car: 416bhp and 329lbft vs my mate's: 338bhp and 322lbft running a hybrid turbo (copy of my old GT28RSR with a CNC wheel)

Your car on paper has 78hp and 7lbft more.

The result: you both run 100-200kph in 10s.

Agreed,
Yours only just did that with a gtx3076.

As I have always said ,the easy way of seeing what a car will do is calculate an average 90ve engine and work out the compressor maps online for all turbos .

Easy to predict within 5% of the power it will get .

So jack your 200bhp shy of what your turbo can do ,I would get it put back on dyno .

Why use 90%VE? Most modern engines are better than this and a decent forced induction engine will be miles better. Even a decent N/A engine can be over 100%VE

The GT2871r is a very good turbo for people wanting to break the 400BHP mark and has been proven time and time again. This was my result on FC performances Dyno and the heartbreaker dyno (Surrey rolling road) with standard head, cams, inlet manifold and exhaust manifold.

http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.ph...rue#Post1452942

This was running Shell Optimax 98 ron (Many think its still like the 99 ron V power but it changed a few years back)

This is now my old spec so more to come this year.

This is 20VT with gt2871R on RON 98 (external wastegate)on 0.64AR :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL_78vZ3GeM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIRPXdWSOgo

I think we've proved that a GT2871R 0.64 has repeatedly given well over 400bhp on more than one dyno

Its therefore reasonable to presume that Garrett's own figures are being a bit cautious.

90% factors into the equation many variables and is typically used in power predictions.

Julien, for me 200kmh on the clock really is 185km/h on a gps so a video like that proves nothing

Nigel, I don't agree with your conclusion, sorry. It just doesn't make sense to deny facts like these:
- 418bhp does 100-200km/h in 9.9s.
- 328bhp does 100-200km/h in 10.1s
- my 350bhp does 100-200km/h in 9.9s (I only tried it once today and am pretty sure I could be a bit quicker)

OR perhaps we should ignore compressor maps, maths etc and say that me and my mate have got more than 400bhp

Edit: I did anther run and managed 8.9s. For what it's worth here'so a picture (got to borrow Race Logic and measure a few more times).

In 3rd gear 1b @ 1750rpm then 1.7b @ 3200rpm

Oh boy, I forgot I'm using MAP sensor so what I thought was 1.7b (170kPa) @ 3200rpm was in fact 0.7b of boost. Doah!

...and this is one of the reasons that my car always produced more power than others with a GT2871R. I've just checked some of my old posts and I used to have 1 bar of boost before 3,000rpm. The benefit of a flowed head and high-lift cams....

The more I investigate my tuners work the more interesting things I discover which need to be addressed. I used to make 1b at around 3.1k rpm with the same setup I have now.

My boost control system has recently packed up again... First it wouldn't boost above 1bar and now it's not controlled in the least

However...

...this means that, in fifth gear, 1bar at 3,050rpm and 1.7bar at just UNDER 3,500rpm. It's not mapped for this so I daren't go any further, but I do get the feeling that this would be serious fun if it was tuned to take full use of this turbo's capability - it spools like an absolute monster

You can see why I tried 2 bar - it was hilarious (and fairly short-lived....)

However, when it spools that quickly, traction can become an issue

Without a Quaife, I could imagine it being a real handful too. I realised this morning that the old 'digital' throttle pedal is back. When Leighton mapped it, the accelerator pedal made it feel like an analogue switch. Now it's all or nothing. It makes it feel much faster - like it's effortless fast but. realistically, it's just rubbish.

Will get it sorted next weekend hopefully.