Nearly bought a 1998 Alfa GTV today

I'd often admired a metallic red GTV with tan interior when I saw it driving around Hereford.
It has just turned up at a car sales lot which carries about 14 used cars past their first flush of youth. I had a look round it at lunch time.
It's a genuine 86k 2.0 TS model on an R plate. Price? Just £600.
The paint work has scratches but not too bad, the mirrors are crusty, the alloys are good, the tyres have good tread but are a different Chinese brand on each corner.

I clocked the previous owners address, and took a chance and called round to have a chat with him this evening. It paid off - he'd reluctantly px'd the car for a diesel A4. He'd spent money on the car - one rear pan arm, front wish bones, but the cam belt hadn't been done in seven years .
He said the car had sounded more and more like a diesel - classic variator failure symptoms.
I called back to have a look at the car in the dark later this evening so I could check the underside better. And I had a surprise - there was so much less rust than my year 2000 Vis I sold recently. It's two years older but much better . It didn't need any preventative work.

So why didn't I buy it?
The rad was on it's last legs. A cambelt change plus variator is £400 plus, and the exhaust (original) was rotten from front to back - £300 worth - it's a complicated system.
Plus there's oil leaking, but not dripping, from the bell housing.
Get that sorted and it'll cost £1300, but won't be worth a £1000.
Shame - guess they are going the same way as some of the Coupes.

I had a GTV V6 a few years ago, Lovely car, sublime sounding V6 and the ed stitched interior was to die for,

I sold it to Flea & Its the FC Performance courtesy car now, (unless he's sold it)

But yes rot etc is just as the Coupe

I have had a couple of GTV V6's, the first one was only a few months old and I loved it to bits.

The second one I owned fairly recently, and unfortunately it was a tarted up dog. It looked very nice but had lots of issues, some fairly serious.

Get a good one and you will love it, but as with Coupes if you get a bad one it will swallow cash like it is going out of fashion.

I have a proteo red GTV V6 24v with black leather interior.

Paid 1300 for it with a large number of issues, rear suspension clunk, no a/c, cambelt needed, suspect water pump, previous reported over-heating issues, gearbox crunch 2 to 3 and 4 to 3.

Bit of a risk but I had recently decided I needed one in my life.

I have done most of the major work myself, including a gearbox and Q2 diff. Drove it through the summer (got the A/C working hurrah), and it is without doubt the most awesome Alfa I have driven to date.

Handling and engine are so so sublime!!

That's great to hear that people love the car, but they are all V6's.
But does the engine make the car?
True to form, I'm going to the lower rung of a TS.
Has anyone run one of those?

I haven't driven a twinny GTV for many many years, but have had lots of exerience in driving twinny Alfa 155s and comparing them to the 155 V6 2.5 12v and a 155 V6 3.0 24v conversion I did a while back.

My impressions are this, and I suspect it applies to the GTV:
- handling on the twinny is very go-kart like. The lesser weight, and position of the engine centre of gravity closer to the front axle, makes the front end feel much lighter than the V6. If you get use to the sensitivity (the GTV has a quick rack as well) then the feeling is very direct and it does feel like you can place the car anywhere at any speed, so the handling on the twinny is a big plus.

Having said that, although the nose of the V6 does feel heavier, I find it makes it feel more planted, giving more confidence when driving progressively. The V6 GTV does not really understeer due to the rear axle design (it will at the limit!!), so I feel more comfortable with the extra weight up front.

Go onto alfa155.org though, and the war rages eternal regarding V6 versus twinny 155 handling.

With regard to the engine itself, the V6 wins hands down every time in my mind. Redline at 7k, glorious sound, plenty of grunt and plenty of power. Whilst I have bought and tried a number of 155 twinnies, I always end up bored and underwhelmed by the engine which whilst a gem in its own right, feels asthmatic compared to the 24v V6.

I do have a biase here, as I have predominatly been a V6 or turbo kind of person, and I know the twinny is far more charismatic than many of its competitors, but within the Alfa realm, the V6 takes the biscuit, more so if you are not so bothered about fuel consumption, as when pushed hard the 24v is a tad thirsty.

Hope that helps!!

It certainly does, Wombat. It's given me a great insight into the difference's.
It's a toss up between a Ts gtv or 156 v6 - same money really.
Do I want a ts gtv with it's better looks and interior, or a v6 motor in (an admittedly handsome) saloon car?
I'm going to test drive the Gtv tomorrow and haggle hard.

Thanks for your post. It's input like yours which makes this forum good to be part of.

If its got no rust the shell must be a solid investment anyway. Good Mk1 ts are fetching money now.

Check the drain holes under the car roughly behind the front seats this area is the most problomatic to rust. In general they are much more resilient than coops for rust.

A new alloy rad can be had for £60 and is a doddle to fit( think the brand is Neissens).

Thanks.
It's chucking it down with rain here now but I'll check this before I buy.

Floor was good but with a little prodding I put my hand through the sill under the drivers door.
Sure, it could be welded up but what else lies underneath the sill covers?
I have time and the knowledge for some mechanicals but not for rust .
Still a very cheap car for someone but not for me at this time.
(It still looked lovely unwashed, in the rain).

IMO the TS is a bit underpowered in a heavy car like the GTV.

It is a willing engine that sounds good, but it is going to struggle against more modern cars in a straight line.

Handling wise though they are very good.

Well. My gtv v6 owning mate said the car could be welded up quite easily.
So, I booked a test drive in me lunch time yesterday. When I got there, the car had discharged it's battery and immobilised itself.
I went back today and it was running again. It did look good. Took it out and it was pretty ordinary to drive unless revved hard. Brakes were sh*te but the worse thing was an engine tap, cam I think, then a general din.
When we got back I looked under the bonnet and it did sound like a diesel. Knackered variator for sure.
It'd be worth cambelt, variator , welding and exhaust but I'm not sure the cam(s) were ok.
So I walked. Yes, it's only £300, but where do you stop shelling out?

I think you did the right thing, at best the car needed a cambelt change with variator, at worst the engine was knackered. They can be a right money pit if you are not careful.

Yes well done for walking away Huw, rule of thumb with cars like this is 'buy cheap pay twice' so you could of been into a money pit just to make it reliable.

not as good looking as my coupe

Shall I start a 'which is the better looking - Fiat Coupe or Alfa GTV' thread, on the Fiat Coupe forum?

Which do you think would win.....

Currently thinking about an MG TF in BRG

I actually really like the gtv. I would certainly own one and the cup model is something I would particular like to own.

Mods we've gota trouble maker here

....... and he doesn't own a Coupé any more

Can I ban him? Why yes I can... Hiraeth Hugh Hereford Heretic

Heavens!
I'll halt there!
What I really need is my Sud Sprint back to cheer me up.

Better looking out of the GTV and Coupe?

Both about the same... Prefer the front of the GTV and the Rear of the Coupe.

You're a brave man for saying that on here Simon, and I agree.

I will refrain from casting my opinion

This continues.
My mate rang them, told them I'd been looking at it and thought it was knackered, and offered them £200 cash as he wanted it for spares. They said yes, if only to stop me from going back again! They delivered it to his in 10 mins.
He said I can have it for what he paid I i want.
So now I'm going to take the cam cover off to check the cams.
How do I tell if they are knackered?
Thanks

I suspect they may be similar to a 16vt camshaft, in which case you should see a slight chamfer on the edges all the way round the lobes.



By the way those camshafts are the ones some thieving bastard stole.

I have heard of TS engines pretty much loosing the entire cam lobe, so it might be very easy to spot.

The ones just under the oil filler are the ones which tend to go first.

I would be tempted to replace the big end shells as well as a precaution. If the engine has ever been run low on oil or had a cambelt snap in the past it is likely to start knocking it't bottom end otherwise.

To conclude.
Another hangover today - but they do bring you back to earth (hangovers).
I'm not pursuing the gtv for the same reason I sold my Coupe.
I spent the day tiling the kitchen wall instead of fiddling with lovely cars.
Then I mowed the grass, in a polo shirt n tracky bottoms (on 15th November - what's that all about)?
End of dreams for now.

Sorry to hear you had those lovely cams pinched.

I whipped the cam cover off today and the cams were not worn. You're right - there is a chamfer all the way round them.

So , I can deduce it's the variator that is making all of the noise, so I can go ahead and change the belts etc.

Trouble us, the car won't start now due to immobiliser problems

Did you change the variator Huw?

Was going to get Ace motors to change it along with cam and balancer shaft belts n tensioners n water pump. Parts are expensive (variator £130)so £550 all in.

But now we can't get the thing to start because of the key code.
If that's an expensive fix then it'll be uneconomical to repair.
It's the same colour as your 156, Proteo red. I love it.

Reset the ecu and try again.

Ahh thanks.
Is that disconnecting the battery terminals then touching them together?
Alfa owner forum also suggests disconnecting the yellow immobiliser, waiting 30s the reconnecting.

Having a Morrisons 'Dark ale' now.
Made by the Ringpiece brewery, it ticks my tasty winter ale box

Yes bridge the cables for 30 seconds to reset.

I'm sipping of a cold Sharp's Doombar tonight, saving my Butty for Xmas

Butty!

Butty !!!!!

Decisions, decisions: what if you had the choice of

Butty: or Butty:

But you could only have one?

Ooh.
That's a tuffy but it would have to be butty number two please.

That's probably because I'm at work and so a beer is a distant dream right now