It's back! Not Game of Thrones - Jim's cars...

With the meticulous research and successful implementation of Baldrick's cunning plans, I am once again seeking the advice of my esteemed FCCUK colleagues as I look for another vehicle.

The brief:

I've just been offered a job involving a 25-mile country B-road round trip daily commute. The coupé would be ideal, apart from being a) expensive to run, b) possibly not top of the reliability league (though no complaints so far - apart from the master cylinder. Oh, and the relays, etc...) and c) I've already done almost half of my precious 7,500 miles for this year after 3 months.

So, I need a reliable, inexpensive, small, diesel hatchback, right?

Wrong!

I need a vehicle that can

- carry at least 4 full-grown adults in reasonable comfort
- take enough camping equipment/food/wine/spare clothes for said occupants to go to, say Goodwood, for a 4-day trip
- when required, sleep 2 adults in the back and, finally,
- serve as a van big enough to haul around a sofa or shed-loads of MrsC's art.

NB: I'm 6'1" and I can't sleep unless I'm pretty much lying flat, so that gives an idea of the size I'm after (Zafiras need not apply).

Obviously, it also needs to be relatively reliable and not ruinously expensive to run (by which I mean it'll probably be diesel, rather than petrol).

The fun part? Well, the budget, naturally.

£2,000 tops.

My favourite contenders are:

Chrysler Grand Voyager Limited (or Limited XS) 4th generation
With Stow & Go seats. LPG could be a curveball. Struggling to get much within my budget that hasn't been to the moon and back several times.
I know these are seen as Beelzebub on wheels, but they tick many boxes, even if they are either guzzling fuel or broken down.

Fiat Ulysse 2.2JTD Prestigio or Eleganza (with leather)
Not as cavernous as the Chrysler (I can't find a figure for load-bay length, but I bet it's under my height) and without the trick foldaway seats, but cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, probably more reliable and a bit nicer than its Citroen/Peugeot stablemates. I believe bezzer might have something to say on this one?

Kia Sedona 2.9 CRDi (Whatever, with leather and gizmos)
To our amazement and (obviously) shame, we loved our Sedona; it hated us. The high-pressure fuel pump/injector issue that killed ours is still a risk (and, at a cost of at least £490 plus fitting for just the pump, I'd want to know it had been done before I took a risk on another). Pity, because otherwise, it's exactly the combination of cheap and practical I'm looking for.

Outsiders:

- Mazda Bongo: always wanted one, but not in price range and questionable reliability at the cheap end of the scale)
- Nissan Elgrand: how can you NOT want an MPV with the engine from the 350Z? Too expensive and possibly a tad heavy on the juice. See also: Chevy Astro, etc.
- Ford/VW/Seat Galashambra: Plentiful, but not as big or cheap to buy as the Ulysse
- Mitsubishi Delica: I like a bit of banter, but I'm not completely insane


What does the panel think?

Views on the contenders, or suggestions for other vehicles, if you please...

Renault Espace ....

It would be the Grand Espace if any; I've heard good and bad - but not many around for the ludicrously low amount I have to spend...

You'd be better of heading on down to a BCA auction with that money Jim and hope something nice comes through. After all, it's what most dealers do for the forecourt cars....

My friend had a GEspace. It was really good, roomy, comfortable, nice driving diesel and was reliable too. He sold it with 110,000 on it and all was okay

Not a bad plan, Patch. I used to buy quite a few cars at auction in France.

FTFY, Jim - one of the words was in the wrong place

Are you at risk of doing what I nearly did when considering the Merc R Class - letting the occasional need way override the daily need?

What about a Mondeo Estate? And sleep in a tent. Or borrow the E Class.

Even more left-field - Merc A Class LWB - stupidly big load-carrying capacity with all but the driver's seat removed but a great day-to-day vehicle. I bet you could even sleep on the totally flat passenger side with the passenger seat stacked on the driver's seat or outside.

I hired a A Class in Kos last year. It was pretty fun to drive actually!

With all of the seats taken out, it's not bad. My outlaws had our old one for years and, apart from suspension bushes (front ARB mostly) it has been very reliable. At least until someone crashed into it and the fire brigade cut the roof off to get MIL out.

Dunno if the B Class is similar but bigger

Good points, although I should draw the panel's attention to an awesome Mondeo estate I bought from an auction in France!

But I really do need 4 (and admittedly very occasionally up to) proper big seats and load-carrying.

More leg room in the back of an A Class than an E Class

I must say Jim, your OP choice list is sh*te ahahahaha

Here's the figures for the van it's derived from Jim.

I had a turbo diesel one in the late 90's and it was totally reliable from new to 90odd thousand miles when it's contract was up. Never broke down once.

Bongo bongo bongo bongo bongo.

So there. Yes, I am biased.

It was designed to be slept in. Is an 8 seater. They are very comfy.

Reliability wise, they are good. The main concern is overheating, due to a failed coolant pipe, but that can be easily prevented. Huge support (and parts) network via the bongo forums. East to work on too.

The only downside I can see, is that they are expensive to run. Diesel up to 30mpg on a run. Petrols about the same, but you can convert the petrols to lpg.

If you got it properly converted to a camper, you could actually make a profit from selling it on.

Presumably, then, you've seen the brief and the budget? What do you suggest instead?

Gripped - we've talked Bongos before and I'm a fan. But I can't find much for my budget...

Surely worth finding an additional £500 for such a beautiful machine...

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/331792198222

The ad has ended, but I have reason to believe it's still for sale elsewhere.

Yeah, I know sorry Jim. You can pick them up for under £2k, but you might be better spending a little more for better nick.

I'm not sure I can think of another vehicle which meets your brief for under £2k unless you accept it might be a bit rough round the edges. With Bongos, they ALWAYS go first at the rear wheel arches, but many have them replaced such is the love of the vehicle. I've been patching ours up, and she's still going strong.

Off to Northumberland in the summer ! Oh, and we tow with it, it has a tow bar bike rack too. Takes lots of logs for the wood burner. And I commute to work in it. The pop up roof is awesome too.

OR

A wildcard, how about a large estate car? They are long enough to kip in. Volvo..... Old Audi A6 Avant....

They also have the bonus of having low drag and frugal engines, so are cheaper to run than house brick shaped MPVs.

Loads for the budget:

Volvo V70 D5
Saab Vector / sportwagon
Audi A6 Avant

Then sleep in a tent........... or tow a caravan...

Jim, I'm only messing mate. I'd definitely go auction hunting, you'll find more for the money there...

My apologies, Patch - I was aiming for deadpan, but I think I achieved snappy. Not my intention.

Auctions appeal, but the problem is getting to the right auction at the right time. There only seem to be 2 or 3 vehicles I might be interested in on the entire BCA site...

gripped - I really do like the Bongo (less so the Pontiac - I'd go Elgrand all the way for muscle MPV!), but I just think I'd be looking at such a tired example, it might sour the experience.

Estate cars are definitely a Plan B option, but I really am looking for the van-like format. In fact, if I could get a decent 4-seater Vivaro-sized van for my budget, I'd be very tempted. Vans, perhaps surprisingly, seem more expensive for similar age/condition.

VW Sharan Diesels are around for that money. petrol ones can be had much cheaper There's a lovely 2.8 one with full leather for not much cash
.http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201603232267504?price-to=2000&radius=1500&page=1&searchcontext=default&sort=pricedesc&onesearchad=used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew&make=volkswagen&model=sharan&postcode=S10%204FL&search-target=usedcars&price-from=500&logcode=p

Jim, as you know we had a Ulysee a few years a go. It was a great MPV for the money. Ours was an ex Addison Lee 'Taxi' that'd had been well used but also well maintained (Serviced every 10k miles).

It was a 2 litre Diesel Eleganza. I believe the diesel engines were PSA ones. It was extremely roomy with the rear seat out and cavernous with the middle row out. Removing the seats was fairly easy but they are blooming heavy.

I bought ours with 80k miles on the clock and eventually sold it 4 years later at 139k. Only costs incurred were tyres (every 15k on the front!) and servicing.

For the money you're looking to spend I'm sure you'd be able to pick up one just above the shitty mark

However, a quick search on AT came up with this one and this one.

Don't forget the Pug 805 and the Citroen C8 are basically the same as the Fiat.

Good luck!

P.S. Congratulations on the new job.

What about a VW transporter. You will certainly get one for your money, although likely to be a higher mileage 1.9tdi rather than the 2.5tdi.

I have Alfa 147 seats in mine. The rear bench seat I fixed to a VW seat base which was a lovely mod for very little money.

I used mine as a daily for 3 years and was absolutely spot on. Drives like a car, feels like an MPV.

I would say come and have a look at mine at goodwood, but that would be too late

Thanks chaps.

n3dsd - that link is to a diesel car, which is also Cat D...!

bezzer - I read your views on your Ulysse - as well as PeteP's; they contributed to it being on my list. From my research, they appear to be better kitted and screwed together than the Pug and Citroen versions as well as a bit cheaper. The review I saw said that the engines were Fiat, but I guess there are several versions. Both the cars you linked to are very much on my radar. Especially liking the blue one...

I'll take a look at Merc A-Class, MRS, but I'm guessing that the old quandary of seats OR load space could be a problem. Also, sleeping on the passenger side would be great for MrsC, but where do I go?!

The idea is not that we would always want to sleep in it - we will generally be loading up with camping gear and kip in the tent. However, there have been more than a few occasions when in a cold, wet and windy paddock at a race weekend when it would be preferable to just stretch out in the back of a dry vehicle!

The job doesn't start until July, so I can keep looking and listening to ideas for a while yet!

sorry ...but there are lots of others...

Absolutely - my main quibble with the (no doubt decent) Galaxy/Sharan/Alhambra is that it isn't quite as big as the Ulysse/Eurovan models. If I'm going to go large, I'd rather go reyt large (as they say in Sheff).

Just sold my 57 plate Merc Vito dualiner for £1500. Mind you, I suspect that was a bargain tbh.

Seats 5, carry everything you need and the rear seats come out for a nice flat load/sleeping deck.

145000 on the clock and still going strong.

I've had 2 and are a fan but, I didn't pay for them or the upkeep.

Not sure you'd find one like that in your budget though.

Damn. That would be exactly what I'd want! I've been eyeing them up on the road, but don't think they are in my budget...

I have a 55 plate mondeo ST (2.2 litre diesel) that would fit that bill. 120k on the clock but still running well, all brakes now sorted, new tyres all round within the past 12 months (2 last month). Unfortunately not an estate but still massive inside.

If you dont mind a slightly dodgy paint job on the roof and a knocking top mount it's pretty much bombproof (being a chain driven cam is also a bonus). It currently goes up and down the A1 between herts and peterborough.

I bloody love Fords, cheap as chips to fix and run and lovely to drive to boot. Shame my partner doesn't like them otherwise I would be getting an ST or RS Focus instead of a Golf R :-(

That's a very kind offer sugerbear; unfortunately MrsC and I both want either a van-type-MPV-thingy or, failing that, an estate. Thanks anyway and I hope the Golf R isn't too much of a chore...!

I do like the Mondeo estate and there are some tempting Ghia models in budget...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-Ford-Transit-2-0-TD-Day-Crew-Van-MOT-until-Feb-2017-No-reserve-/162047129178?hash=item25bac2f65a:g:oegAAOSwoudW6yPP

looks tidy but I know nothing about transits

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LDV-200-maxus-van-crew-van-minibus-great-condition-/281970822345?hash=item41a6c54cc9:g:BBEAAOSwu1VW6-Ut

probably ex P.O.

Thanks for the linkage, TbirdX - I like that Transit, but I'd be astonished if it doesn't go over my paltry budget!

Honestly wished I had bought a Mondeo Estate. The newer versions are enormous but the older ones handle well and are really comfortable (especially the ghia/titanium x versions).

I do have a soft spot for the Mondeo estate. And, if the Galaxy were as big as the Eurovan 2, it would be higher up my list.

Fiat Multipla Mjet.
Fiat Croma with the 2.4 MJet ( 210 bhp )

Peugeot 505 GTI Estate.

VW T2 Van.

Citroen XM Estate

Woah! Nice to hear from the classic car lobby!

Some interesting suggestions, but I fear that most will either be too old or too unreliable.

Jim

Do not under estimate the Fiat Croma ( 2005 - 2008 ) Bigger than you think. Wife had one, fits a lot of 3.0 metres long stuff from IKEA.

Remember the final gen Multipla stopped in 2012, still as good as ever and basically a mobile camper van once the rear seats easily removed..

How about a fiat doblo?
Cheap to buy,cheap to run. Reliable

Go for a 1.9 jtd 8v though. Far more low end torque.

Should be easy under that budget

Yes, sorry, I was more referring to the non-Fiat vehicles. I love the idea (and look) of the original Multipla, but found I didn't like the execution, especially the lack of luggage space with the seats full.
The Croma is big and can be had with lots of kit too. Possible addition to the estate car list...

Given that I'm looking at old, cheap vehicles, with no interest in resale value, should I be looking at Cat C or D?

Citroen C8 - Cat C

http://ebay.us/ZtN5dF

That's a nice example, Reuben, thanks. If possible, I'd like something a little longer than the Doblo, but it ticks most other boxes.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vw-t4-caravelle-camper-day-van-/201569475007?hash=item2eee7a19bf:g:1zYAAOSwoudW-r-F

330K miles

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAZDA-BONGO-CAMPER-VAN-1995-AUTOMATIC-DIESEL-GLOSS-BLACK-/231924103457?hash=item35ffc0f921:g:-ZgAAOSw2GlXHey4

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOYOTA-PREVIA-2-BERTH-CAMPERVAN-8-SEATER-COOKER-WATER-CANT-SAY-SWAP-PART-EX-/131773494947?hash=item1eae4ff6a3:g:wTUAAOSwAvJXA4Vh

Could the search be over...?

Spacious? Check. 7 seats? Check. CRAZY? Check...

If that remains under your £2k budget, I'll be impressed.

I hope you'll be wearing your baseball cap backwards when driving it :-)

Ideal Sow Car? He'll be ferrying piggies!

It has a lot of low down grunt.

That'll do, thanks! Don't want this to disappear in a pun-fest...

Has there been a rasher statement?

Jim's been telling porkies. ^^

How about a Mercedes Vaneo diesel? Nice one on auto trader near me for £1600 and bags of space.

I looked at the Vaneo, but I think it is a bit too short in length and not quite as versatile. Probably more reliable, mind you...

I've found a car I want to go and see, but - due to MrsC's massive commitments at the moment, I can't find a way to get to it!

I'm in Stroud and the car is in Loughborough. Public transport looks grim, but I might have to go for it.

Unless anyone fancies a road trip for petrol money and a modest reward?

Jim, is this the C8 in Loughborough?

I take it you've spoken to the dealer and he's confirmed the advert and pictures are true to the cars condition etc?

It might sound like a strange thing to say but, why not agree a price with the dealer and get them to deliver it at your cost?

My daughter bought her Beetle from the arse end of Birmingham without seeing it. The dealer sent her a multitude of extra pictures of the car and receipts and then after he'd had a new MOT put on it, had it delivered here. He put £20 in the tank, had purchased train tickets back home which she paid for and just needed dropping at the train station.

A little extreme I know, but if it's the car you really want.......

bezzer, it is indeed the C8. The dealer has answered all my questions and sent me a dozen more pictures on Whats'app (his idea), including all the bits I asked about and more.

MrsC doesn't get why I don't just buy another closer one (or a completely different type of car...), but this one does seem to tick most boxes and, despite my record, I am trying to get the best value and best car I can.

Your idea is a good one, but I can't quite imagine explaining buying a car sight unseen to MrsC.

What happens if he agrees and delivers the car and it isn't as he says - could be ugly!

I'm looking at getting a return train ticket (4-hours each way, £44), which will be a pain, but hopefully will get the job done...

Jim, jbt is in Loughborough and also knows about pugs... Have you tried asking him nicely?

Jim, it's a C8, it is ugly

Why get a return? Surely if you like it you'll buy it there and then and drive home in it won't you? Or are you a real glutton for punishment and want to visit Loughborough twice!

BM's idea sounds a good one to me....

Thanks BM - I thought JBT was somewhere in that neck of the woods, but I haven't seen him round these parts for a while. It's a bit cheeky, but if you know where I can find him...!?

bezzer - single is £43, return is £44 (go figure), so if I get there and it's not what it appears, I can at least trudge home to face the mirth of MrsC without spending another £43.

I've spoken to the bloke at the garage; he's going to meet me from Loughborough station in the C8.

Unless something else happens in the meantime...

From another forum I frequent.


vauxhall zafira 2.0 dti 2004 elegance

Good points. Economical 45/50mpg,7 seats, New clutch and biomass Flywheel, Crankshaft pulley( had to be done as going on holiday last summer), starter motor last year, solid car with little rust, 11 months mot. Serviced every year without fail.New rear brake pads.



Bad Points Central locking remote doesn't work but locks with key, light dent in driver side door,134,000 miles, Mot advisory on two new tyres in near future



This motor has survived six years of the rural school run with pride ,very reliable only ever let my wife down when starter motor went. All the children have progressed to the 'big' school' with its own transport so now we can have something we really want for us.



£600 would be money well spent if you need a run round, or make me an offer as will soon have to change insurance.



No photo's as yet but will email if needed.



Oh and its black with alloy wheels.

Jbt posted the other day! His contact number is on here
I'm sure for a few beer tokens he'd help out.

Thanks TBirdX - I'll bear it in mind if my East Midlands Odyssey tomorrow ends in failure.

I'm booked onto the train(s), so fingers crossed it's a worthwhile trip...

I'll try giving Mr BravoTurbo a call... Thanks for your help, BM.

Good luck Jim!

Just had a phone call from the garage: C8 sold

Anyone want a train ticket to Loughborough?

FML

Now that is crap Jim.... Maybe it's fate and it was about to throw a belt and die.

Bummer Jim..but whats wrong with your lighthouse? ;-)

Something will turn up, it's a waiting game is all.

Thanks, guys. Just continually trawling the usual sites as well as... Facebook! There's a group for Eurovans...

Bummer about the C8, Jim. I had the same problem when looks for Mercs - found what I was looking for, arranged to see it the following morning and it sold that afternoon.

If you don't need it until July, I'd try to be patient. I've decided not to go to Spa so the Merc's available that weekend (sorted reversing sensor - £14)

Thanks Rich. At least it saved me a long trip to Loughborough! Also, having almost thought myself into that car, I'm now thinking what I'd want to be better on the one I do buy.
We have a few things we need to do before July (including a house-move run for MrsC's dad to Chester), so it would be useful to be sorted sooner rather than later - but I will definitely wait for a good 'un.

On the other hand, I suspect the Merc would be a much nicer drive to Sussex!

Thanks again.

Sorry to hear that the C8 sold before you could see it. I know how that feels even though I also know others will turn up.

It's a petrol, so you have already ruled this one out, right?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201602281466650?make=citroen&radius=50&onesearchad=new%2Cnearlynew%2Cused&search-target=usedcars&quicksearch=true&sort=default&postcode=gl52ln&model=c8&page=1&logcode=p

Thanks Neil. I'm afraid petrol is right out; the diesels aren't exactly class-leading in fuel economy, but at least they're noticeably better than the coupé. Unlike the petrol ones...

Yeah, they are big and heavy and not overpowered, which means they like a drink. I use my N.A. Coupe every day and it returns mid 20s on shorter journeys. A long and quite fast motorway trip at the weekend saw it returning up to 35. I was very impressed. Even felt perfectly happy at 180km/h (about 112 mph?). I was not feeling mean enough to make it work any harder.

Back to the C8 - there are two diesels, 110 and 130 bhp, right? Would you consider either or only the 130?

Blimey, that's a bit better than my coupé. Having said that, I didn't buy it for maximum mpg!

I'd look at any of the diesels with a preference for the more powerful 2.0 or the 2.2.

Economy according to the barefaced lies printed in the manuals seems to differ by only a couple, but I'd prefer any extra grunt I can get!

One reason I grew to love the Sedona was the 2.9 engine, which was agricultural, but it did at least have a bit of torque to get the big old bus moving: 130kmh uphill on a French autoroute with 7 people, a massive roofbox and a fortnight's camping gear aboard.

Shame it has the fuel pump achilles' heel, or I'd consider another.

35 mpg for a real 70 mph average door to door was OK in my book. We did 440kms, topped up nearly brim to really brim, I could only get 36.1 litres in. Our 115 bhp Impreza is worse.

Have you taken a look at this one. It is quite close:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201604072721299?postcode=gl52ln&price-to=2500&searchcontext=default&model=c8&fuel-type=diesel&page=1&radius=100&make=citroen&onesearchad=new%2Cnearlynew%2Cused&search-target=usedcars&sort=default&logcode=p

A bit further away:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201604122887879?searchcontext=default&model=ulysse&page=1&price-to=2500&radius=1500&search-target=usedcars&fuel-type=diesel&sort=default&postcode=GL5%202LN&onesearchad=new%2Cnearlynew%2Cused&make=fiat&logcode=p

A one owner car but further away still:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201604223241570?postcode=GL5%202LN&price-to=2500&searchcontext=default&model=807&fuel-type=diesel&page=2&radius=1500&make=peugeot&onesearchad=new%2Cnearlynew%2Cused&search-target=usedcars&sort=default&logcode=p

And a "nearly new" one:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201604233254499?sort=default&searchcontext=default&onesearchad=new%2Cnearlynew%2Cused&page=2&postcode=gl52ln&make=peugeot&radius=1500&fuel-type=diesel&model=807&search-target=usedcars&price-to=2500&logcode=p

Thanks Neil - yup, I've looked at all those (bar the last, "nearly new" one, which is way out of my league). They all have some merit, but as always, it's finding the combination of spec, mileage, maintenance (cam belt is pretty crucial) and - of course - price!

Jim, only just seen this update to your C8 search, what a shame.

Sounds as though you're in no great rush so I'm sure something will eventually pop up again.

Thanks bezzer. I'd like to get something sooner rather than later, but I'm trying to be choosy.

However, there's a cheap one down the road near Bristol that looks reasonable; clutch and timing belt done. It's not the spec I want and it's the smaller/lower powered engine, but it might be ok.

Might pop down to see it today.

Well, for better, or (very much more likely) worse, I parted with £800 for the above-mentioned shed.

It's a Peugeot 807 2.0HDI on a 53 plate. 135K miles. Clutch, cam-belt, aux belts and water pump all done at around 95K. The dealer took it on a trade-in and just wanted to get rid. He was much more interested in the coupe!

I know the pug needs at least 2 new tyres and a good service; any other horrors remain to be seen, but it goes, stops and steers and most of the electricals appear to function. It also has 11 months' MOT left. Hopefully, the modest amount I saved buying it will cover the new rubber and an oil change...

It doesn't have leather, or satnav, it's not the 2.2, it's got an ugly dent in the near side passenger door, the mileage is higher than I wanted and it's very dull.

Here's hoping it stays that way...

I thought you would Jim

Fingers crossed it serves you well and respects your wallet.

I'm sure you did not really want a 13 year old sat nav, leather is hot in the summer and cold in the winter, and you did not buy it for the performance!

Are you going to do the servicing yourself?

In the interests of everyone on the roads in the UK, that would be no!

Apart from that, it's just what you wanted

The only electrical glitch we had with our Ulysse was with one of the sliding doors. When opened, sometimes it would get halfway open and then close. On a couple of occasions one of my children would nearly lose a leg or be decapitated.

Drove the 807 home yesterday evening; goes OK - bit smokey, but that could be general tired diesel engine or filter coughing up its lungs. Sat at 70 with cruise control no bother, but will reserve judgement until I've driven it with 4 adults and camping gear in.

It needs 2 or possibly 3 (so 4) new tyres, but I'm not fitting them until it's been serviced, in case the garage tells me to take it out into a corner of the garden to say goodbye (you've seen the Supervet...).

Electrics? Well, you can't open the osr sliding door with the external handle - it's the keyfob or one of the interior buttons. None of the courtesy lights work, the passenger door mirror doesn't fold (though it adjusts fine) and - the only one I'm really bothered about - the drivers window doesn't work. The passenger one didn't either when I got it, so I changed the (blown) fuse and now it's fine, but the driver's side just clicks. I expect it'll blow the fuse again if I keep trying it, so when the Noah's Flood downpour finishes, I'll have to investigate further.

If only there were a P8CUK...

Oh, and I forgot to mention the handy "removable" seats. I just spent an hour sweating my cobs off trying to get the bloody things out. The last one nearly defeated me until I realised that the cable (like a bike brake cable) that was supposed to release the seat from the runner had snapped...

Sounds like you've got yourself a beaut there Jim

It is a good job you like tinkering with cars ...

... that is what you said, right?

Electric window - is the ticking a relay and nothing more happens or the motor running but failing to drive something? These things often have plastic clips and runners which go brittle over time and snap. Could be an easy and cheap fix.

These forums any help?

www.peugeotcentral.co.uk
www.peugeotforums.com
www.citroen-owners-club.co.uk

It's a cheap load lugger. Hopefully, not an £800 brick!

Jim, are you going to treat us to a couple of pictures?

I will, bezzer, but at the moment, I'm just waiting until it's been to the garage for its make-or-break check-up. If it makes the grade, I'm sure there will be some highly offensive images!

Also, MrsC has every intention of turning it into an experimental work of art - inside and out.

Still, if our filing cabinet is anything to go by, that might be ok...

Well done Jim. Hope you have better luck with this one.

neilr - sorry, didn't see your post. The switch is apparently a weak point on the electric windows, but in this case I'm not convinced - it seems to click the same as the others and hasn't blown the fuse again. I now wonder if it isn't a motor or - as you suggested - a relay.

The chap on the Facebook group (who it seems also authors the leading fanzine for The Damned...) seems to be a bit of a guru and trades in parts. If the van gets the green light, I can buy a window switch from him for £25. Unless I can find a cheaper one elsewhere.

Have thought of shooting a "wheeler dealers" type video for posting on you tube Jim? Would it be more than 2 episodes? Sounds like you have plenty to keep you occupied!

I've discovered that the 807 shares its window switches with other PSA models, some of which are notably cheaper. Could be useful if it applies to other bits and bobs.

Next quandary is tyres - according to the AA website, it seems that large MPVs are supposed to use reinforced or extra load tyres, although I'd have thought that was a bit over the top in normal circumstances. It clearly didn't bother the MOT tester, as the fitted rubber is definitely nothing more than standard ditch-finder.
It should be said that at least 2 and possibly 3 of the tyres are blatantly illegal in terms of wear, so I'm not 100% confident that the MOT is worth the paper it's printed on.

If the consensus is that reinforced tyres are the way forward, would I be better off going for commercial or domestic?

What does the book say? I'd follow Peugeot's advice, but I'd have thought it'd need high load index car tyres rather than van tyres.

Should of got one of these Jim. lovely looking Pug...



Have you posted any pics yet Jim, haven't looked back..... If no, then it's a Jim dream unless we can see it....

I'd have thought it makes sense to fit what's specified - if only because it stops your insurers from having an escape route.

Agreed - I'll go for what the manual says. Surprised that the online tyre companies don't make the recommendation - after all, they know what the car is based on the reg search.
Blackcircles have reinforced Toyo Proxes CF2's for £65 per corner fitted. Looks ok, but we'll see what the manual says. It's currently in the car and I'm painting a wall, so I'll get it later...!

Very nice little car, Patch - I saw the pics on Facebook. Your daughter will love it!

However, since it would fit in the boot of the 807, with room for the key to wind it up, I think of it more as Thunderbird 4 to the van's Thunderbird 2.

Tomorrow is D-Day for my tired and underpowered French friend, when I find out if it can be safely driven on the roads without spending a (relative) fortune. Tyres will be £260-ish, so I don't want to spend more than another £450 or so at the absolute max.

IF it gets the all-clear, then I might post some "before" pics. The "after" ones will depend on what MrsC does to it...

Well, the 807 had a service yesterday and apart from needing an overhaul of the brakes, a new rear coil spring and some work to the windscreen washer bottle/pump system, there doesn't as yet seem to be anything major to report.

Not entirely sure as I haven't spoken to the garage (I picked it up after they had closed), but I think the idea is to drive it, get new tyres on and see if anything else reveals itself, then get the rest of the work done.

At least there didn't seem to be any major dramas. Unfortunately, after a painfully costly month, I'll have to wait until next month before putting the tyres on and I'd rather not drive it around on slicks, so it will continue to sit on the drive until then.
I got the replacement window switch this morning, but the driver's window still doesn't work, so that needs further investigation...

For those with an inexplicable interest, here she is:





http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/BritRennes/IMG_20160518_101508307_HDR_zpsfquwkyoa.jpg



http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/BritRennes/IMG_20160518_101429022_zpsvpqjidyb.jpg

Like it

Thanks Patch. I still don't feel I can really get to know it until the tyres are done, then I can begin to use it. Already have half a dozen "van" trips waiting!

What's the tyre size Jim?

Looks good Jim, especially with the roofbars.

Thanks bezzer! I tried moving the roof bars this morning and to my amazement, all 4 latches release and re-close as they should!

Although the genuine Peugeot overmats are knackered, it occurred to me that I'm not exactly looking after this for some future buyer, so I've removed them to reveal the pristine carpets underneath!

Patch - it needs 205x65x15 speed rating H, load rating at least 96. I had lined up some Toyo Proxes CF2's at a very reasonable £62 each fitted from Blackcircles, but they've now sold out (and I'm skint anyway!)

It's just that I have a few spare tyres that are very good in my back garden. If they had matched they would be yours, they don't, so they're mine !!

These are not too bad, not an exact match but close...Maybe worth putting on the watch list...

CLICK FOR EBAY

Thanks for the thought about your spares, Patch.

I'd never thought of getting tyres on eBay...

I usually buy tyres from Mytyres Jim, They come from Germany, normally within 2-3 days.

That's what they are listing in your size right now, although there is a gap between 95 and 99 loadrating.

Thanks Pete. I ticked the Xtra Load/Reinforced box and they came up with the Toyos for more or less the same price fitted.

I used the French subsidiary of this company all the time for my coupe in France (123pneus).

Personally, I'd avoid part worns like the plague. You've no idea how they've been treated.

Is 205/65-15 the recommended size or what is currently on? I keep coming across 215/60-15 for the 807 and they do have a 96 load rating as an option. Choice seems better too so probably a bit cheaper.

Of the less expensive tyres, these came out very well on the ADAC test this year:

Hankook Kinergy Eco K425
Nokian Line
Kumho Ecowing ES01 KH27

Very close in performance to the top four tested tyres and got the same overall rating.

https://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/re...rcePageId=31821

Sorry, got that size wrong. The other option was a 215/60-16 tyre, so not suitable wheel size

Thanks anyway, Neil! The 807 came with 15 or 16" wheels, mine has the 15s - as specified on the sticker on the door.
When I'm in a position to buy the tyres, I'll look at all these options again.

szkom - I'm inclined to agree with you!

I've just removed the driver's door window motor, but not sure how to test it before buying a replacement on eBay. The electrics on these cars are so poor, that it could equally be a wiring/ECU fault...

I just found the right motor for £13 "guaranteed working" on eBay. Purchase made...

Will it fit the other door switch?

Unfortunately, Neil, it all goes into a central unit, rather than simply wires from switch to motor. There are several 6-pin and one 16-pin connectors involved, so it's anyone's guess which 2 pins do which job!

I've disconnected the electronics from the motor assembly and there's a very distinct smell of fried circuitry coming from some of the components, plus some brown, tarry residue. Given that the fuse was blown, I know where my money is...

At least parts are plentyful and not that pricey on Ebay.

That's true, especially now I've discovered that most of the non-bodywork bits are shared by any number of PSA (and Fiat) models.

Would a Terraclean treatment be money well spent (when I have some money, obviously)? I've noticed the MPG average (according to the onboard computer) is 30mpg, so if it could restore a bit of efficiency, that might pay for itself.

What do you reckon, Nigel?

30mpg? That's pretty poor, even for a big old bus. Mind you, it might be worth resetting it and running it for a month and see what mpg you get.

FWIW, my 2 litre Ulysse, which was an Auto, averaged 35+

I would just get all the basic stuff sorted, servicing, tyres (alignment?) making sure no brakes are binding etc, and see how you get on. "Esoteric" cleaning would be wasted money if the rest is not in order first.

Good points, both.

I haven't delved too deeply into items such as the reputedly troublesome EGV and DPF, but there are hints that there might need to be a certain amount of fettling.
There was quite a strong smell of unburnt diesel when I was driving it home from the garage, but I just haven't yet done enough miles to be sure what is what.

Frustrating as I really don't want to drive it before the tyres are done, so I'm having to be patient (and fiddle with the electric windows!)

I swapped over the electric window motor and put it all back together - it works! Now to sell the un-needed switch on eBay!

I was gutted to get a call from MrsC on Wednesday (while I was away in Lyon), saying that the Peugeot wouldn't pull away and that clutch smoke was billowing through the gear-lever gaiter.

With some trepidation (and a sprained ankle, but that's another story) I got into it this morning and... it drove exactly as it had when I left. Big mystery. MrsC is a very competent driver and neither of us can think of a convincing reason why she should have had such difficulties. Anyway, I went out in it and discovered that there is definitely something amiss:

There is a very on/off feel to the throttle - like a switch - and sometimes it doesn't respond at all, leaving you at idle when you need to pull away - nasty on roundabouts. Once moving reasonably briskly, all seems fine. There is also an unmistakable clutch smell at times, but I don't know why this would be related. Anyway, it looks as though I'll have to spend more time and money finding out what the cause of this is

Dodgy throttle pedal potentiometer?

Clutch: I guess one should check that the mechanism is free and and fully responding to the clutch pedal and the hydraulics are OK.

Duel mass flywheel failing?

That was my first thought.

Can you convert these to a single?

I believe it's possible to convert, but haven't looked into it...

DMF fails 'safe' as a rule; it's the springs that buffer the masses that break so the two parts slam one end to the other but still provide drive - unless the broken bits get into the clutch, I guess?

I think I need to express this better! I'm not convinced that the clutch issue (if there is one) has anything to do with the loss of revs/power; the clutch still operates perfectly well, with no snatch or slip, but the throttle seems - occasionally - not to respond to the movements of the pedal.

There is a smell of hot clutch, but I think that may simply be the result of riding it when there's not enough engine power.

I'd look at the flywheel. When they start to fail it causes the car to bog down when taking off.

The flywheel may need looking at, but the point I'm making is that even in neutral, you press the accelerator and there is either no response or a delayed response. It feels as though it's a fly-by-wire system with a loose connection.

What conditions does it do it in? Only when engines cold? All the time? Only hot?

The smell and the lack of power sounds like it could be an ignition fault - possibly glow plugs, possible over fueling. Hard to tell without seeing / feeling it.

Any clouds of soot that arrive at the same time (like it's clearing it's throat)?

I think that's more likely, BM. The problem is that due to a variety of circumstances, I haven't been able to drive it enough to know what conditions cause it to play up. It's bloody frustrating! I had to wait for it to be checked over in case it was a basket case, which took a week, it has 3 illegal tyres that I couldn't replace until it had been checked and then I had to bugger off to France, so the tyres are still unfit for the road, etc...

Anyway, for what it's worth, I don't think it's glow-plugs, it could be over-fuelling, but my instinct is that it's some kind of breakdown between movement of the throttle pedal and the fuel supplied to the engine. There is a small amount of smoke occasionally, but not the big blue clouds you get when it's regenerating.

Won't be glow plugs, they are only on for a few seconds to start the engine from cold. Once it is going heat from compressing the air in the cylinders fires the fuel and keeps it running.

Dodgy throttle position sensor?

That's what my infinitely ignorant mind wants to believe.

Drove the 807 to IKEA in Bristol today (via the garage to get Stepson's Grande Punto - see other thread!).

It played up with the same hesitation/intermittent lack of power whilst at slow speed and until warmed up. After that, it's been fine all day.

Maybe it's just had some muck in the fuel line that has now been pulled through.

I'll see if it's up to its bad old ways tomorrow...

I've also ordered 4 Nokian Line tyres (the best I could get reinforced at the odd size it requires) for £70 a go from mytyres.com. They should be fitted this week, then I'll just need to get the suspension and brakes done and I'll feel mighty relieved!

It handled the monstrous IKEA load easily and was comfortable and quiet on the way home. Just what I'd hoped.

Fingers crossed again!

Good luck, Jim!

Thanks, Richard. If all goes well, I'll be over to blag that battery off you soon!

And if it doesn't, you can blag the Merc

That is a very reassuring thought! Thanks!

Took the car in to get the new tyres fitted. Left the locking nut remover socket on the driver's seat and told the garage bloke.
An hour later I get a call: "Are you sure you didn't take the socket with you?"
They've somehow lost it. I don't really think anyone is going to steal the knackered alloys off my knackered 807, so I don't care whether or not I have locking nuts; I told the guy just to replace them with normal wheel nuts.
Apparently, Peugeot have to order them specially.
Really? Wheel nuts?
If only there was a scrapper somewhere close by, because I really don't want to spend £15 on new bloody wheel nuts that won't be there until Monday!

So they've lost the locking wheel nut socket before after they've taken the wheel off or before???

Before. They've had to somehow get the locking nuts off without the socket (trashing them in the process).

Ironically, I can get a cheap set of locking wheelnuts (reputedly to fit the Pug) for less than 4 standard nuts.

With luck like yours, I take it you don't bother doing the lottery

The locking nuts would protect your new tyres though, at least until the next service ...

So are you stuck at the tyre place now?

Turns out that the locking nuts came out without damage. Which begs the question, why are they called locking nuts.

So I now have the locking nuts back on. But no socket to get them off if the need arises.

Meh.

Great new tyres, though!

In fact, on closer inspection, the van came back with 4 nuts on each wheel... Pfft. Other nuts ordered, arrived, but were the wrong size. More nuts ordered, still waiting.

In other news, the intermittent misfire has been diagnosed as the EGR, which has been disconnected and deleted. There is also a "massive" boost leak, so new pipes ahoy.

I'm toying with getting the DPF removed and a remap. I'm told that it will run cleaner with the remap/DPF removed than with the system failing as it is now. There is also a gizmo that doses a chemical into the fuel to cause the DPF to regenerate. This is apparently knackered too, which could cause more problems.

Getting rid of all the complex gubbins and allowing the engine to breathe and run freely should actually make it cleaner than a broken attempt to reduce emissions. Replacing the entire lot would cost more than the car is worth. This, clearly, is what I'm telling myself...

...as long as it will pass its next MOT with all the emissions-related gubbins removed? Or are you driving it into the ground with the final 807 expiry date set to coincide with MOT expiry?

I'm led to believe (and I've heard this before) that as long as the DPF box is still in place, be it ever-so-empty, then the vehicle can't be failed for this alone and the tester can't dismantle your car to look inside.
I don't want to be responsible for killing babies through excessive polluting, but with the current situation, the car pollutes more than if the bits were removed.
As a 140k miler, it is realistically not going to be around for much longer anyway. The bloke who looked at it today said the cost of the parts alone would be double the delete DPF option.

What are the knock on effects to your insurance?

A very pertinent point. The aim of the remap is not for performance purposes (although there are gains), it is to teach the ECU that it doesn't need to look for the DPF/additive doser/EGR or flag a fault if it can't find them.

Life being what it is, I suppose DPF removal alone probably constitutes a modification, let alone furtling with the engine mapping.

It's probably illegal anyway, since it will take the car out of its type approval.

Does that not apply to all manner of commonplace modifications?
And by illegal, does it constitute a criminal offence or a civil one?

I'd say criminal, as civil is a dispute and criminal is intent to harm. You're intent on poisoning the planet you bad bad man!!

I wouldn't worry, most ecu remaps, changing alloy wheels etc that aren't declared on insurance are technically illegal.

(fingers in ears) la la la la la laaaaa....

I might be anal but I've declared every single mod on every bike and car I've ever owned........and paid a fortune in insurance. Worth the peace of mind though in my opinion.

Thing is, you're changing the (theoretical) ability of the vehicle to meet its mandated emissions control regulations. Since it is illegal to have a vehicle on the road which would fail an MOT test at any time, and by removing the DPF would in all probability cause that test to be failed...

A quick google will tell you that removal of the DPF if originally fitted is an automatic MOT fail.

Relentless

What's relentless?!

Neil, a quick Google will also tell you that the MOT test doesn't involve dismantling the DPF to check that there is anything inside the box (i.e. that the core hasn't been removed) if the vehicle passes the emissions test - which it most likely will, as this is set (for now) at a pretty high threshold.

Note that I'm not advocating this, just reporting what is being said.