Nest or Hive

Talk to me

I had to look this up

This forum is so much more useful for picking up stuff than having "word of the day" sent to your electronic device imo.....

There is a third way you know?

I have Hive and, apart from a few clunky bits (like it only works in landscape on my iPad), it’s very good. Installing it was a 15 minute job for hot water and heating - the receiver (bit that operates the boiler) fits to a standard backplate so it was a very simple swap.

It doesn’t have the “learning” feature of Nest but I’m not sure what that does.

I thought we were talking wasps

For me it's style over cost! I would say Nest is leading in style/aesthetics where Hive is slightly cheaper.

The learning feature is nice on the Nest but you need to give it time to work out what your energy usage habits are, so if you fiddle around with it at the beginning it will take longer to learn and get it right.

If it was me I would choose Nest as I think they have the leading edge and the device is a lot nicer (I am a designer). If you're not so bothered about the style/aesthetics then Hive offers fairly good value.

If you go with Hive, they are currently offering a free Amazon Echo Dot to sweeten the deal!

Hive - for me - has been an expensive, unreliable PITA. That could be due to the installation being in an old house with poor connectivity between devices and a Heath Robinson heating/hot water system. Good luck, whichever you choose...

go on...

You know, the old "manual" way of doing things? I'm not sure what is broken that needs fixing?

Where is Bockers for his love of these systems?

Neither: they solve a problem that doesn't exist, or that has been solved with mature technologies.

Sorry but I have to disagree. These modern devices give far more flexibility than a standard thermostat and basic programmer. They learn around your usage and predict when you need the system to be on. There is also clear evidence around cost savings that can be made.

Plus its a gadget and I love gadgets.

Having read up on them both I think Nest is the way forward for me especially as I will be zoning my system so upstairs and downstairs on different thermostats.

They may well learn my usage. I already know it. Perhaps the cost savings are made in comparison to people who don't know how to operate a timer?

I can turn on the heating an hour before I arrive back to the house when I’ve (pretty frequently) been away - that’s a neat trick with a manual system. I think if your life is entirely predictable and routine, there’s possibly not much you can benefit. My house had no thermostat so I was already onto a winner because there was no way I was going to fit a wired stat easily. Then, because my lifestyle is very unpredictable, remote control is really useful.

I need to see if the data it collects is useful. I know that I run my house cooler than other nearby but I’m not sure if that helps me.

I do quite like that I can adjust the heating from in bed.

You could well be right, Rich - for your use case it works. But for mine, now I'm not wimbling around the world at random times, it's not worth it.

But I'd suggest we're the outliers; most people probably keep fairly regular hours.

as per rich, I work away, travel a lot, I don't really have a routine, some days working at home some days in the office etc etc

I think everyone is different however I do believe they have a place and add value over an analogue system

One significant difference is that hive is battery powered whereas the Nest needs a 5v power supply if it's not replacing a wired thermostat.

SCARDA, *NIX and PLC

If only I had the skills to teach a robot how to keep my fire alight... sigh

Raspberry Pi maybe.

https://pitherm.raspberry-solutions.com/

Fires are dirty things

Honeywell Evohome system is worth a mention. Probably more expensive, but seems like the best developed system out there, especially for a larger property.

You are right, of course, I am just teasing

A plumber brought in to help solve our Hive issues mentioned that the system is essentially a data harvesting scheme for Google. I'm not the world's biggest conspiracy theorist, but in this case, I wouldn't be surprised if "the man" had a hand in it.

For the record, I've spent almost 6 hours on the phone to the (excellent and always polite and friendly) Hive staff trying to fix our system. MrsC spent another 3. I'm not making this up, that is NINE HOURS on the phone. Waiting 9 minutes can seem a long time.

We had to reboot everything, one by one. Several times. This is a different procedure for each generation of each component and can involve pressing a sequence of buttons up to ten times at one second intervals, then waiting to see if it worked...

We changed thermostat batteries.

We had a new physical valve installed - not a Hive issue, but decidedly unhelpful. I diagnosed it (with help), but this was initially dismissed by others...

We had a new hub sent to us.

We had a new thermostat sent to us.

We had a new signal booster sent to us.

Each of these than had to be installed and connected to all the others.

If you (as we do) live somewhere prone to wi-fi/internet drop-outs - or teenagers that unplug things with no explanation or apology - be prepared to wake up to a cold house and cold water and a cheeky little red light on the Hive box. Set aside a few minutes for a re-boot...

It would be very handy if the Hive system could give you a heads-up if any component left the party. Maybe the app could be persuaded to do that?

Anyway, by and large it now works, but probably less reliably than a programmer/timer.

I can just about see the point if you live the kind of lifestyle described by MRS and Mario, but only if you can be sure it will work reliably.

Great idea, especially if you leave a device logged on to your system and colleagues mess with your settings. Interesting to watch my former boss trying to explain to his angry wife why their heating had come on in the middle of summer and how he couldn't understand why he was unable to log in and fix it.

And no, it wasn't me.

Experts say technology can do only half the job. A smart thermostat is only as smart as the person operating it.

If you live an erratic life then I can see the benefit if you don't and you can wait 20mins for the house to get some heat or hot water it seems a total gimmick and a waste of cash for another gadget that does not really add much.

I find that I'm playing with the temperature far more than ever I was with a regular stat and I'm really optimising the timing because it's so convenient to adjust.

It's like I'm far more aware of energy useage with a smart meter and I'm adjusting light far more with Hue.

Small gains but gains all the same.

A gimmick will be something that comes and goes and I'm sure smart homes are here to stay.

I'm pretty sure that smarter homes wouldn't find it necessary to be on the phone to the mother ship all the time...

I'm split on these kinds of things. I design IoT stuff (can't discuss the current project; it's embargoed) and the vast majority is simply not thought through. The marketeers think, hmm, mobile phone sexy interface, let's use that... and then the phone battery is flat. Most IoT stuff is connected to the network at all times; unnecessary and a security risk. Lots of IoT stuff is insecure and potentially dangerous - teddy bears and dolls that record small children and send them advertising. Locks that fail open, or shut - which is worse? Internet connected cameras with insecure web servers... people are being conditioned to accept that enormous companies have the *right* to monitor them 24/7.

Not for me, thanks. A smart house should have the smarts *in* the house, not at some datafarm.

</rant>

Yep I think we are stumbling (being led) into an Orwellian nightmare.

Avoid Nest like the plague. Overpriced pile of shite.

If I had my choice again I would go for one of the Honeywell systems.

Things I like about the nest.

The ability to set up schedules easily
Having multiple routines per day
Being able to set temperature per routine. (Morning event set to 19 degrees, Evening 21 for example)
Being able to turn down the heating when away from home and daughters are still there.


Thins I hate
All the smart features, yes all of them, and the fact that even when turned off they manage to turn on again!
The fact that the home report gives you nothing (I want a daily breakdown of when there was heat demand).
The support is terrible.
It has not been updated in over a year.
The Alexa app is too limited (I would like to be able to set nest to 21 degrees for an hour aka boost).
It has to be plugged in!!!!
The display can remain on and only shows current temp, unless you wave at it. I want current and target temp.
The smart abilities are dumb.
It's over priced.

Did I mention it's utter shite?

No, you said it was an overprice pile of shite. Utter shite is something completely different (isn't it?)

but is it better than Hive

Don't watch TV but a horrid pop up ad just played on a website advertising Hive apparently now in 2017 you can't get off your arse and turn the light off or the heating up/down...luckily the chap in question who is cuddling his new born whilst cradling his smart phone, possibly unable to decide which one to put down first; luckily has Hive. So fortunately for his child he does not have a dilemma as he is able to do just that via his 'smart' phone whilst still on his derriere. WTF has it all come to?!

To be fair, that’s a bit like characterising someone calling from a mobile phone on their sofa as too lazy to get off their butt to use an old, hard-wired, phone. The point of the ad is that you no longer need to operate the heating from a quaint switch on the wall. About time too.

Hey Richard, if you still stayed in Scotland we could nickname you...Mr Gadget McGadget...

Ha, Jim, that’s fair - though, I’m my defence, I’m in the industry.

Wireless control is the way things will go. Likewise wireless charging and wireless power. TRIZ predicts this too.

I venture to disagree, for any significant load: energy density and bandwidth mitigates against it. I'm in the industry too.

However, I will agree that the must-have-the-newest brigade will lead the way with pointless widgets, which keeps us both in a job.

Are you familiar with TRIZ? Impressively accurate.

Inductive charging is already old skool. Wireless control is becoming increasingly all-pervasive - even on bicycles. Even fibre optic is a form of wireless. Lots and lots of other examples that I can’t even talk about.

Far from pointless as much of this technology finds its way into medical devices and other properly life-improving technology. Gadgets is just where it’s played with and the glitches ironed out and the standards agreed upon.

I don't object to Hive from an anti-technology perspective. Indeed, if it worked reliably, I'd be quite in favour. It is the endless issues I have with it (more than likely due to my circumstances) that put me off. If it isn't reliable, then it is worse than an analogue system.

At least there is a point to it then, helping the infirm and ill in society rather than the industry/market led drivel to give people technology/gadgets they don't need in return for money they usually don't actually have to impress people they don't like.

That's my issue with the Nest. The fact that settings get lost and you find heating switching on at 3am. Then there are smart features that are anything but. It was the potential to track energy usage together with smart meter readings that I was interested in.

In retrospect all I want is a reliable fully programmable thermostat that has a boost function and can be voice controlled for that. Changing programs and other settings on a smart phone interface is far easier that cycling through the typical wall mounted stat menus.

I don't now why you don't watch tv any more, but did you know they even have "remote controls" that mean these lazy beggers don't even have to get off their arses to change channels!
Madness!!

Because I don't wish to pay a tax to be force fed Govt lies and propaganda But yeh the remote has to be a good tech especially as there is no longer a wire from it stretching to the VCR.