Rolling road today

Just had my car dyno'd today

video

Current mods are,

T34 turbo
3" exhaust system
Front mount intercooler
4 bar fpr
255 lph fuel pump
gtech 2
greddy rebic IV controlling one 850cc injector

Its currently 432bhp/380lbft @ 6000 rpm, the car was getting a wobble on so we couldnt take it to the rev limiter. I think it should be nearer 450bhp/400lbft - still on the standard engine
York raceway this weekend so if it doesnt break i'll be back for a full power run with it properly strapped down.

Wow, on a standard engine! With a Gtec 2 chip!

How long have you been running this power for?
What boost to make that power?

p.s not that clued up as to what a T34 turbocharger is.

You must be mad.

T34 is a old school hybrid turbo, running 25 psi on the road the dyno sheet's showing 23 psi/ 1.5 bar. I've only recentley been running this power had been running 380bhp/340lbft for about a year.

what spec is the t34?not a cosworth one going by the power level.

good result but how long will the engine last?

what size is your exhaust side of turbo? Ar63 i'm guessing?
awesome result with old school t34....!!

I don't mean to sound rude, but the figures sound a tad high to me.

Or alternatively, if the figures are accurate then your turbo isn't a T34. Even modified a T34 will not manage over 380-400BHP, so you must have a different turbo than you think.

my old cosworth ran a modified t34 with a .63 housing (housing was machined amongst other things) and managed 418bhp on an engine dyno without ancillaries, so 400bhp is the ABSOLUTE max on these in car,and then they average 18 months. the above level was produced with 2.2 bar, and before any head flow arguments are mentioned,it was an £8000 engine build with the best cosworth head finisher in the world doing the porting (ex f1, you have to arrange for him to come out of retirement type of guy)the turbo you are running could well be more like the cosworth t4 which is actually a t3 flanged turbo.

I agree - particularly looking at the revs where the boost comes in....

Well that's pissed on my chips regarding these figures.... As I'm running a modified t34 with ar55 housing (yet tobe fully run in or mapped yet), I was getting well excited with these results but thinking about it now they do seem pretty high!

was hoping to see around 370 ish with my set up but your saying you only made 418 with the best cossie engine possible and larger exhaust housing, then I suppose I'll be happy with 350ish, gonna be mapped within next couple of weeks!
Trouble is the hybrid I've had made is a total one off and my turbo guy has only given me compressor wheel sizes and he says it a t38 wheel with a machined t34 compressor housing..... Yet people have informed me there is no wheel inbetween t34 and t4???

Anyways can't wait to find out what turbo this guy is ACTUALLY running??

Nick

this is a data print out from a similar engine to my old one,with a .63 t34.owner says he did turbos every 3 months at this level or so!lol

and this is a t38 car

Think I'd prefer the t34 figures to be honest... Monster early torque!
Interesting the t34 makes more torque than the bigger t38.... I guess I'll have to wait and see.... Hope I'm pleasantly surprised !

Nick

The turbo is .63 turbine housing, stage 3 T3 turbine wheel and T04b h trim compressor. T3 turbine and T4 compressor = T34 or maybe i've got it wrong. Full boost on the road comes in at 4500rpm, theres not enough load on the rolling road to get it spooling earlier.

Generic name for your turbo is a T3/T4 hybrid - but it's not a T34 which is a specific turbo (with a couple of options) supplied by Garrett as the 'big' turbo for the Escort Cosworth.

The T04B H trim compressor is reputedly good enough for 450BHP as it is rated at 49 lbs/minute of airflow.

exactly my thoughts before i read your post

stacks of bottom end grunt makes for a great tractable engine. ideal for road use

Group5, fair play I stand corrected
So t34 is still a t3 compressor? What's this t38 then?

Nick,honestly,the t34 is a FANTASTIC conversion for the road,very little will keep with it and the lag compared to a t3 is negligible from the drivers point of view.

Was running t3 super60 before, which made 302bhp at a mesely 1.2 bar on a very very poorly engine... So I'm hoping for big things from my new rebuild.. Will be fitting (or flea will) larger map sensor for some manly boost!

what ever your set up is buddy you seem to be doing something right! Reckon flea could sqeeze out somemore horses though, g tech seems to be working well though..... Is this most powerful car with plug and play chip?

Nick

A T38 is a Turbo Technics hybrid turbo I believe which they developed in-house as an upgrade for Mitsubushi Evos, and as a replacement for the troublesome Mitsu turbos. Also available for Subarus, Toyotas, and various Fords.

Support 480-550BHP depending on the version. I believe, but do not know for sure, that they use the later Garrett compressor wheels, as used in the GT76R BB turbos and later, more efficient turbnie wheels too. Exhaust side is T3 though and the T04E sized compressor covers are Turbo Technics castings.

No arguing with the numbers, impressive result

the T04B H trim is a big wheel, as group5 said 49lbs or so, the map shows the compressor has a pretty severe surge line so needs to be matched to the turbine which in combo gives a high boost threshold.



Aqua blue is 5000rpm (95% VE) then 6,7,and 8K

Looks like at 7000rpm and 1.5bar it should be good for 430lbs (430bhp roughly) if everything else is bang on, you are right in the sweet spot of peak effcency of 74%, but you are doing it at lower revs so the VE must be up over 95%.

Not sure it would like over 1 bar at under 5000rpm, you got an surge issues on the street?

A stage 3 T3 turbine is pretty high flowing so sounds like a drag turbo or something where boost threshold isn't so important compared to peak output

Good result

Well that is one crazy brave dyno operator, your car has not been strapped down at all!! Do they have a fan running? I would probably look to take it to a better setup as this looks like a very old dyno just in the middle of a traditional workshop.

The graph is showing 1bar boost (14.5psi) at 4750rpm and full boost of 1.6bar (23psi) at 5450rpm, so the turbo does come in very late. You are only making 120lbs/ft @ 3000rpm, and 220lbs/ft @ 4800rpm, it's a bit of an all or nothing with a very late hit.

Interesting fueling solution though with the 850cc sixth injector. In theory this can give an extra 170cc per cylinder, so equivalent to 500cc in total. Where do you have this plumbed in, because the tricky bit is not knowing how much fuel is reaching each invidual cylinder at any one time?

Good luck at York, you will be hitting the limiter pretty quickly!

Well yes, when you're running 35psi it will be torquey, but since most owners here will run about 10psi less than that, the torque figure won't be as high, similar to what the T38 produces

Correcting my post #1253660 above, the Turbo Technics T38 has a 73mm diameter 60 trim compressor wheel and housing to suit. It flows 54 lbs/min at 65% efficiency.

Saint, no its not surging on the road, I think a smaller turbine would create issues though.

Flea, the front of the car was strapped down, you can see one of the straps at the front nearside. It really needed the back end strapping aswell but it was getting late in the day and they had customers cars in the workshop which they needed to get out.

It is a normal working garage however he has another workshop where he builds his own kit cars (Road runner racing) these are mainly based on mx5 running gear, but sometimes bike engined or even v8 powered, there all mapped on his rolling road. These are sold to private customers but some also go out on lease to trackday companys.

The boost does come in earlier on the road, i'm also only using a manual boost controller which isnt ideal. I pressure tested the induction system looking for boost leaks but also found the wastegate starting to open at around 10psi. Its never going to be a quick spooling turbo but it can be improved.

I've got the injector mounted in the only place it could really go to get it firing straight through the throttle body. Their's no way of knowing how the fuel is distributed to each cylinder, its the same if you are using nitrous or water injection, but afterall single point injection worked ok on cars before more efficient multi point became the norm.


The weather's been pretty poor up here, I'll be giving the drag racing a miss unless it improves.

I did go to york on monday, didnt get there until 2 but still got 5 runs in. A pro was killed on the track on sunday I wasnt expecting it to be open but they decided to carry on with the event. Its definatley a reminder that speed kill's even when you are doing it at the right places.
I was a bit gutted not getting a 12 sec run but just couldnt get the launch right. My best time was off a 2.39 60ft.

13.95 @ 111mph
13.03 @ 114mph
13.09 @ 113mph
13.02 @ 113mph
13.33 @ 112mph

a flat 13 is a VERY quick road car!well done

Just a update for those who are interested i've finally got a full power run done on my car.

This was the full run up to the rev limiter but the rpm scale across the bottom is out by a few hundred, it should be reading nearer to 7200rpm . But its still a good indication of what its doing.

Thats this turbo pretty much maxed out now,I might look into changing the compressor wheel over the winter. I also need to start thinking about some sort of engine management/re-map before taking it any further and try to get some boost low down in the rev range just to make it a bit more drivable on the road.

It was the last event of the year at york raceway this sunday just gone so I went for afew more blasts, It had pissed it down the night before and there was still the odd damp patch here and there, I dont think I managed one run without it spinning up in 2nd even after letting the tyre pressures down to 15psi.

1/4 mile

Nice figueres!

Thanks

Good power, but looks very laggy!

Looks animal!

Good result - looks like a good drag setup, plenty of top end flow in the turbine, a stage 3 .63 is high flowing so which new compressor are you thinking of changing to? - something more modern than the T04b series but sizing wise?

I'll probably stick with the T04b and try a 60-1 compressor wheel which is massive in terms of flow. With a decent boost controller where I can set boost against rpm I want to drop the torque down to around 370lbft ( to save the gearbox and clutch from a battering) but hold it for another 500 rpm and try to keep it revving.
Thats the plan, i'm not sure how its going to work in practice. I'm probably already at the limits of what the turbine and head is going to flow but theres no harm in trying.