optimum tuning remap results

well at the start of the year i went all the way to Leighton for a remap 700+ miles round trip. Was happy with the outcome at the time (287.2 bhp 302.7 lbft).

As time went on I bought a gt28r turbo of that crazy rob ktm off jamies old scott green coupe and also the exhaust fitted them and a walbro direct feed, SIP, EBC, HKS SSQV. Drove it for a month or two on the flea map naughty naughty I know

So Remap needed i booked in with flea again and planned to make the trip down but I got news of http://www.optimumtuning.co.uk/ after a few emails I booked in with Oliver the owner, very pleasant guy spent ages talking to him holding him back . Left the car with him all day and over night. He kept me updated with what was going on with the car which put my mind at rest which was great.

The next morning he rang me up to tell me the car achieved 348bhp at 1.4bar and a very impressive torque figure. He said it is capable of more but didn't want to push it.

Graph



Image popper isnt working???

Not wanting to take business from Leighton but I'd strongly recommend us northern bums him as a closer alternative to Leighton

Also i asked if he would be happy to hold a RR day for the northern fccuk members and he'd be happy to do so.

Also after mapping my car hes now on the look out for a coupe himself

Sounds pretty good.
You must be chuffed.

Bloody hell that's right up the road from me!!

How much did he charge, if you don't mind me asking?

Impressive results btw, bet she flies!!

Davie

it cost me 385 pounds but he did some extra work for me I think for the map and rr session was 355

Good results.

To get image popper working, you need to use the 'direct link' rather than 'email & IM' link in photobucket

still wouldnt work pal i know how to use it

changed it for you

cheers

I've been talking to your mate with the 3MPS over on MPS Owners so apologies for the thread resurrection. Trying to get to the bottom of why he was able to reel you in, I looked at this dyno print... and what a weird one it is!

There appears to be two lines at the top, the first, I assume, the map you drove away with, the second, the map already on the car when it arrived. Next to these are the power and torque boxes showing the following;

OPTuning
Max Power: ???(348)5915rpm
Max Torque: 343(400)5753rpm

FCPerformance
Max Power: 255(289)6453rpm
Max Torque: 258(294)6392rpm

What are the power and torque figures measured in, in and out of the brackets? None of the torque figures can be measured in lbs/ft as each at the rpm they fall at generates more power than the quoted bhp figure...
343lbs/ft @5753rpm= 378bhp
400lbs/ft @5753rpm= 438bhp
Both are more than 343bhp!

Similarly the supposed FCPerfromance map torque figures produce silly numbers...
258lbs/ft @6392rpm= 283bhp
294lbs/ft @6392rpm= 322bhp

That aside, I can't see a 20vT with a GT28R developing peak power and torque at the same rpms and especially at below 6,000rpms... It's all just wrong

Trappy - you got any of my old gt28r maps?

As a direct comparison.

Ross

Ross,

I haven't got any copies of any dyno prints so not sure what to expect from this set-up. Having said that, I remember Suba getting wildy differing figures from different dynos with a GT28R hence his old 'somewhere between 300 and 350bhp" (or similar) signature.

Flea's league table is good for estimating what with so many cars having been on the same rollers, but still no good for comparisons against cars run only on other dynos.

My point above is that this particular dyno print is terrible. None of it adds up and could easily explain why Leon's car is as fast as the 343bhp headling suggests.

I'd expect a coop making that power to be on a par with a 400bhp Mazda 3 MPS considering factors like weight and aerodynamics. The car in question makes 337bhp so something clearly is up and this dyno print proves that...

That dyno printout is wrong. How can you still be making torque at 6500rpm if you lifted off at 6000rpm????? This dyno has been used incorrectly or the printout and graphing is incorrect.

My observations.

1) If you look at the speed the car attained on each of the runs, it managed 112.9mph on the second run at lower revs (4th gear?) than the 95.2mph attained on the first run at higher revs (3rd gear?). Conclusion: the runs were done in different gears. Not a good thing to do if you are trying to compare setups as the loading on the engine will be different, so boost curves would likely be different.

2) The figures in brackets are, I think, meant to be flywheel and those not in brackets "at the wheels", the difference in values being what the drag on the rollers is measured at when slowing down off-throttle (shown at the bottom of the graph). This is not a completely accurate way to deduce flywheel torque or bhp.

3) Going back to the first problem about gears, the engine speed can only be deduced accurately if the gearing is known - the dyno cannot detect which gear the car is in it can only measure the speed of the rollers. This means that the RPM scale along the bottom cannot be correct for at least one of the runs (unless re-calibration took place between the runs), and may not be accurate for either run. There is no good reason for the differences in the losses measured (as in 2 above) so I am pretty sure calibration was different between the runs.

All in all, I don't think the dyno plot is at all useful as there are too many uncertainties.

I've had this convo with flea. I'll be getting flea to map it again in the near future lesson learned.

I managed 342bhp from mine with circa 315lb/ft. But this was with evo 6, stage 2 barbz headwork and straight through 3" exhaust.

With all due respect, I would expect you to get circa 315bhp and around 290 lb/ft torque from the setup you've mentioned on this thread.

Ross

I'll agree with that - trappy brought up some good points about dyno readings.

I agree that those graphs are wayyyyy off - looks like the runs were terminated at 6,000 rpm for starters.

It is VERY easy for a dyno operator to give inflated figures to a new customer if they want to....set the gear wrong, skew the wheel to flywheel calculation, ambient temps etc.

Here are some graphs of what a GT28R should look like:

Without headwork:





With headwork:





With headwork - different dyno:





The last lot are from Surrey RR - which seems to read lower than most places, but also produces very consistent results...read into that what you will.

Leon - how did they map your car? Live map, piggyback, etc...

BTW - I can never get the image popper to work either.

OOOOOOOOO - it works!!!!!!!!

Suba you still got that comparison graph that flea knocked up?

Ross

No - sorry. I'm sure that Flea will have a copy somewhere though.

Here is a torque graph comparison.

I did achieve more peak torque than this but don't have the graph to prove it.

Ross

The car was live mapped. The reason he terminated the run at 6k was, he said the car wasnt making anymore power so cut the run short.

I can almost positively say its got more than 315bhp it was 290 when flea mapped it and after fitting the gt28r it felt 10 times quicker.

SRR is always quoted as the Heartbreaker dyno....but out of interest can anyone confirm if the runs done at SRR are done in 4th or 3rd gear?

Jules.

mine was done in 3rd last time

Thanks.
From my time when my car used to spend hours on the Dyno Dynamics Dynomometer (same as SRR), we used to run my car in 3rd gear. However my car was a Cerbera 4.5 and the reason we ran it in third was because the optimum measure for the dyno had to be done where the car was reaching peak power at around a speed between 100-110mph. For the Cerb this was spot on as in 3rd gear it would hit the limiter at around 115mph in 3rd at around 7200 rpm, with peak being just over 6k rpm. At this point my car would hit 420bhp. If we ran it in 4th gear it would record around 450bhp, but at the point it was hitting peak power it would be doing around 140mph so out of the calibration range of the dyno.

Just a thought, but what sort of speed would the Coupe be doing in 3rd at peak power, versus what it would be doing at peak power in 4th? My point is that if peak power is reached at say 6k rpm in 3rd on a Coupe and that is around 90mph, then potentially it could under read, if ran in 4th then it would record a higher speed at peak power, depending on what that is it could slightly over read. This may explain why the Coupe on a Dyno Dynamics possibly under reads compared to other dyno's.

Jules.

Power is measured at the wheels. Thats all that is really relevant with chassis dynos. You generally run closest to 1:1 ratio so ideally 4th in a coupe. The Dyno Dynamics recommends not to gear past 200mph or you will cook the bearings.

So Leon, did your car run properly after the map or was the map rubbish?

car felt alot better actually seemed faster and smoother.

as long as the maps safe, if the car feels a lot faster and smoother i would be delighted at that, frankly so what if the dyno readings are a bit off or folk think they are which are 2 entirely different things, if you feel the cars faster and nicer to drive then it obviously is, just enjoy would be my advice and if you want to test it on a different dyno for a comparison then go for it but i would just be enjoying the car at the mo

I thought from reading the rest of the thread you weren't happy with their service but you say the car was quick after the remap??

I will add more tomorrow, but I should note now that this is not a comparison between an FC map to the new map on the same setup. Leon upgraded from a hybrid to a much bigger GT28R turbo, and also made other signifcant changes to the fuel system.

Regarding the graphs, yes they are totally incorrect on many levels.

Well the car is quick and runs smooth but i was dissapointed in the incorrect dyno results.