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Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197748
07/04/2011 00:01
07/04/2011 00:01

H
h2ypr
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h2ypr
Unregistered
H



I think with any problem in life it's all about whether you actually want to resolve it. Clearly in this scenario you are happy that Barbz has fixed it.

Now as mentioned you either ask for some compensation or you decide to warn others.

If it was me I'd be looking for compensation as someones paid for that work to be done correctly and cause it hasn't it's caused you financial loss.

Suppose it depends on who the specialist is.

Ross

Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197753
07/04/2011 00:22
07/04/2011 00:22
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,174
Reading
A
alexjames Offline
Enjoying the ride
alexjames  Offline
Enjoying the ride
A

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,174
Reading
Name and shame - after all you're only giving a honest account of your experience with that specialist. It's then down to us individually to decide whether we would take our cars and our hard earned money to them.

How many specialists get raving reviews when they've done a fantastic job? It should be the other way too.

I'd be livid and want a full refund.

Btw Barbz well done as usual, cambelt change soon so I'll give a tinkle mate


Ex Fiat Coupe Plus 20vt
Electric blue | 62 trim hybrid | Flea mapped
Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197754
07/04/2011 00:27
07/04/2011 00:27
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,960
west bromwich
C
coupedummy Offline
Je suis un Coupé
coupedummy  Offline
Je suis un Coupé
C

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,960
west bromwich
Issues do happen,if you don't tell them how can they make and mends or even improve on there standard of work..

A good service is just not how the initial work is performed but also how any incidents are resolved. The specialist may be deeply concerned with the issue and offer assistance,compensation or any mixture of the two. I would like to think they would.

I would suggest a chat with them ,if this thread is a warning to others,its kinda pointless without a name.

I can understand the vent mind.

There has too be a point to this thread...be suspicious of everyone?Double check work? or a plug for barbz?...

eitherway i glad you got sorted


[Linked Image]
Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197760
07/04/2011 00:33
07/04/2011 00:33

S
shinyshoes
Unregistered
shinyshoes
Unregistered
S



There in lies the problem, when people vent their anger at companies on the forum, the threads get locked, and the matter is swept away under the carpet.

Its largely pointless to even try.

Maybe because companies pay to advertise on the forum, the moderators might feel obliged to keep them on side... chinny

Mario is right though, it is good that we have discounts, group buys, and specialist contacts on this forum, but when we are paying our hard earned cash to people who claim to be the best in the business, its only fair to expect the best sevice and best quality in the business.

As patch says, leaving bolts out of the clutch housing is nothing short of negligence, something you might expect from a 'trainee', not a company that will tell you they are the countries number one... blah blah blah

Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: alexjames] #1197761
07/04/2011 00:33
07/04/2011 00:33
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643
Watford
MarioCirillo Offline
Ex El Presidente
MarioCirillo  Offline
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643
Watford
Originally Posted By: Biggenz
I bought my Coupe with a Helix Organic clutch fitted last year and have the receipt with work done by one of the specialists on the forum.


Originally Posted By: alexjames
Name and shame - after all you're only giving a honest account of your experience with that specialist.


Thats just the issue here AlexJames it wasnt Biggenz experience directly with that mechanic it was the previous owner of his car. Its hardly fair on that mechanic to not be approached and questioned first.

Also can you prove that the previous owner didnt touch the car or have it taken somewhere after? There are so many variables it would not be fair to just start naming and shaming without a full story and concrete evidence.

on that note... night all wave zzz


Proud Owner of Rosso Speed LE041
Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197763
07/04/2011 00:40
07/04/2011 00:40
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643
Watford
MarioCirillo Offline
Ex El Presidente
MarioCirillo  Offline
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643
Watford
Originally Posted By: shinyshoes
There in lies the problem, when people vent their anger at companies on the forum, the threads get locked, and the matter is swept away under the carpet


Its largely pointless to even try


Thats never the case. Threads get locked when people arnt prepared to even speak/confront the person in question. What is the point in having a thread where two people are slagging eachother off infront of half of the forum? We NEVER lock a thread because someone has expressed their opinion.

People unfortunatly dont see what goes on behind the scene... when we approach the person and ask for key things like Evidence? or ask if they have told the person of what they have found the answers are always No or you should ban that person and take my side etc etc. . . There are always two sides to every story and thats something that many people on here dont see. We like to resolve things behind closed doors and because of that the wider community dont see what is going on and assumes its the club trying to hide things.

Originally Posted By: shinyshoes

Maybe because companies pay to advertise on the forum, the moderators might feel obliged to keep them on side... chinny


Couldnt care less if they pay or not. The money from the premium adverts section covers the cost of the increase in bandwidth the forum has been using in the past year. It makes no odds to the club if we have advertising or not. The section is there for the benefit of the community. It just means that there is more money in the pot to spend on our members than pump into paying web hosts...



Proud Owner of Rosso Speed LE041
Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197764
07/04/2011 00:48
07/04/2011 00:48

S
shinyshoes
Unregistered
shinyshoes
Unregistered
S



Well, this is not my fight Mario, i just take things as i see them.

Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197768
07/04/2011 01:13
07/04/2011 01:13
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 84
UK
Shootsoon Offline
Reaping the fruits
Shootsoon  Offline
Reaping the fruits

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 84
UK
I'm not sure potentially killing another persons business is a good idea unless you have solid proof of the crime (so to speak)

That said I was looking for a 3rd party service on the site and would have found it a comfort to know which company is being spoken about in this thread. I suggest the full story with only facts are added to this thread by the accuser.

It may be beneficial to have a review thread for each company that advertise on the site. This way both positive and negative reviews are all listed together so members can make a fair and complete decision.

Last edited by Shootsoon; 07/04/2011 01:15.

1998 20V LE No177 48000m
Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: Shootsoon] #1197772
07/04/2011 03:23
07/04/2011 03:23
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,051
South Cambs
B
Barmybob Offline
Hon Club Member: 003
Barmybob  Offline
Hon Club Member: 003
Je suis un Coupé
B

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,051
South Cambs
Oh we are back on this one again!

It often seems like the forum takes sides but I can assure you nothing is further from the truth. Generally complaints are allowed but yes the post is often locked soon after. Oddly this has more to with protecting the Forum Member, rather than the trader.

Nobody on the forum really knows what has happened with regard each incident other than those directly involved. Surely most customers would wish to see the issue they have encountered resolved. If an issue is not able to be resolved face to face then people may consider they need to take legal action. I hope you all understand that ALL comments that the complainant and others make on the forum could possibly be used to undermine such cases.

The Forum, by allowing detrimental comment, could also potentially be accused of allowing material to be published that caused a trader to suffer a loss of business.

I consider one of the real problems on this forum is people constantly posting saying how great some of the traders are. Most of the time it’s nothing exceptional people post about, just the fact that the trader they have used did the job they were paid to do! So why post? Do people post because they hope that next time they will get more favourable rates?

Everyone should go into a transaction with their eyes wide open and that includes dealing with traders on this forum. Don’t fall for the forum hype, we are all different and we all have different expectations. I have had work done on my car at forum traders and also at specialists who don’t frequent here. I have had good service and bad service from both!


Gone Audi mad!
Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197782
07/04/2011 06:49
07/04/2011 06:49

H
Hedge
Unregistered
Hedge
Unregistered
H



So at the end of the day you've got a warning from an owner saying that the specialist you're using "might" not be all that he's cracked up to be. That's it, in essence.

I stand by what I said originally: I don't really see the point in airing such a comment. I can see why the OP would do it, just don't think it was particularly helpful advice that's all.

I wonder if everyone's going to start querying the guys they use all of a sudden. Strip things apart after work's been done? Get it checked by another specialist? Even they might be wrong.. Where does it all end?

Cheers, Hedge

Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197792
07/04/2011 07:52
07/04/2011 07:52

B
Biggenz
Unregistered
Biggenz
Unregistered
B



Originally Posted By: Hedge
I wonder if everyone's going to start querying the guys they use all of a sudden.


Exactly what you should be doing.

Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197796
07/04/2011 08:06
07/04/2011 08:06

H
Hedge
Unregistered
Hedge
Unregistered
H



Originally Posted By: Biggenz
Exactly what you should be doing.

Cool, understand that. But how?

Stand over them as they're working? Ask them if they've hand-on-heart done everything asked of them, properly? Get someone else to check it? Check it yourself?

This is my point: logistically speaking you're at a dead end. Who do/ can you trust?

Cheers,
Hedge

Last edited by Hedge; 07/04/2011 08:06.
Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197797
07/04/2011 08:08
07/04/2011 08:08

P
proccy
Unregistered
proccy
Unregistered
P



Originally Posted By: Hedge
So at the end of the day you've got a warning from an owner saying that the specialist you're using "might" not be all that he's cracked up to be. That's it, in essence.

I stand by what I said originally: I don't really see the point in airing such a comment. I can see why the OP would do it, just don't think it was particularly helpful advice that's all.

I wonder if everyone's going to start querying the guys they use all of a sudden. Strip things apart after work's been done? Get it checked by another specialist? Even they might be wrong.. Where does it all end?

Cheers, Hedge


agreed - good post imo..... anyone who thinks the "specialists" are perfectionists is a fool, everyone of them and us makes mistakes at some time and no doubt from the outside this could be construed as "negligent". personally i've had brilliant service for the most part but i go there with my eyes open - and certainly with more chance of high satisfaction than taking it to anygarage.com.

as for the comment earlier concerning asking the specialist for compensation, i don't think that's right if you haven't given the original specialist the chance to rectify it initially provided it is PROVEN to be his fault - there are many on here who fiddle with their own cars and fair play to them - but who's to say that the previous owner of your car has done it properly and then the specialist gets the blame.

Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197799
07/04/2011 08:14
07/04/2011 08:14
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,174
Reading
A
alexjames Offline
Enjoying the ride
alexjames  Offline
Enjoying the ride
A

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,174
Reading
Biggenz Are you 100% certain the previous owner never took the box off after the specialist?


Ex Fiat Coupe Plus 20vt
Electric blue | 62 trim hybrid | Flea mapped
Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197802
07/04/2011 08:38
07/04/2011 08:38

B
Biggenz
Unregistered
Biggenz
Unregistered
B



Yes I'm sure. Why would he have taken it off anyway if it was just fitted?

I've got tons of receipts with all the work done on the car, as the previous two owners always used a garage.

Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197808
07/04/2011 08:57
07/04/2011 08:57
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 9,729
Zele, Belgium
Kayjey Offline
Club Member #10
Kayjey  Offline
Club Member #10
Je suis un Coupé

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 9,729
Zele, Belgium
Inserting my opinion...

Stories like this pop up once in a couple of months. They're generally all the same except for the 'who did it' part. Nobody offers 100% perfection. Sometimes that is because things need to be fixed in alternative ways (eg. While fixing it something rusty breaks that will take a week to order but the owner needs the car tomorrow), sometimes it's because they were in a rush, sometimes it's human error and sometimes there are other reasons... and sometimes the story is not completely true.

The same goes for parts, replacement discs, suspension,... there will always be things that are perfect to some and bad to others.

Would these stories stop me from going anywhere? I doubt it. I'm sure we've all bought brand new expensive items that have gone wrong quite quickly, whether it was a car, a Parnafonics stereo set or a Bosch washing machine. We just go back, show the ticket and let the shop replace the item. Sometimes we bought something new, dropped it to the floor, and go back to the shop saying "it doesn't work".

I'm not saying these stories shouldn't be told. They serve a good purpose: making sure people don't trust EVERYONE with their eyes closed. With time, our (let's call them) Coupe Friendly Garages are getting even better, find new resources, get new parts made up, get good deals on pattern parts, learn about other stuff that go wrong on our age-old cars,... I know plenty of garages around here that will just say "a Fiat Coupe? Oh no sir, won't even go near it".

I'm happy there are so many CFG's on the Forum. I've experienced a few and they each have their own ways. Probably each have their own 'specialities' and each their own visions about how something can be made better.

The big message being: you will find perfection nowhere. But you can always go back, or decide to try someone else.

Now then... Off to drive over an hour one way to my personal CFG to get my brake set fitted and some other stuff done that I don't have the tools for. Who knows I won't have to go back tomorrow, but if so,... Happy either way.


- Kayjey -

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197835
07/04/2011 09:49
07/04/2011 09:49

R
rikki16vt
Unregistered
rikki16vt
Unregistered
R



Hi biggenz,

Not having a go at you, as i don't live in this country so i have no customer relationship with any coupe specialists, and i do feel sorry for you that you aren't the original customer with the specialist when the clutch was fitted, otherwise you have every right to confront him directly.

I notice you also post a Helix clutch for sale in coupe parts section. I think it would be fair if you do mention the release bearing issue in that post, as a potential buyer might not be able to link the 2 posts together. If they are not the same clutch then my apology.

Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197858
07/04/2011 10:38
07/04/2011 10:38

B
Biggenz
Unregistered
Biggenz
Unregistered
B



It's the same clutch, but I'm supplying a new release bearing as can be seen in the pics I've added.

Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197867
07/04/2011 10:49
07/04/2011 10:49

R
rikki16vt
Unregistered
rikki16vt
Unregistered
R



Cool! Fair play.

Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197967
07/04/2011 13:43
07/04/2011 13:43
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,670
SW London
Rudidudi Offline
My life on the forum
Rudidudi  Offline
My life on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,670
SW London
Originally Posted By: proccy
I don't really see the point in airing such a comment


I have enjoyed the discussion that this thread has started far more than the (imo) pointless threads where pub bragging peak bhp figures and appendage sizes are the main point of discussion.

Upset, peeved off, in need of a vent. All valid reasons, I would have done the same and I would not expect anyone to feel unable to just moan about something on a bad day smile

Originally Posted By: proccy
no doubt from the outside this could be construed as "negligent"


Originally Posted By: proccy
as for the comment earlier concerning asking the specialist for compensation, i don't think that's right if you haven't given the original specialist the chance to rectify it initially provided it is PROVEN to be his fault


Spot on, BUT, negligence, vicarious liability, all difficult to prove in a court. Not least because there may have been different causes for this failure. I am not suggesting that is was or was not a garage's fault, but merely suggesting that proving it is requires more than just holding up a bunch of parts in a court. Also you'd probably find that a formal engineer's (no not a mate from the garage down the road) report would cost nearly as much as the cost of a new clutch wink

For me there are a few morals to this story.

a. you can only really be sure of someone's work if you do stand over them and watch them and actually know what they need to do. At which point you might as well have done the work yourself. In reality you either dont have the skills, time or inclination to do the work so you have to accept the inevitable. It is hard to be truly comforted and trusting someone's abilities if you know what is required, ignorance is bliss.

It follows that recommendations are often not worth the air they are not written on.

I have seen work from companies that specialise in race preparation. shoddy work. but people fit bits to their car because they know no better. not all of them are armed with the skills or tools to check the work of engine builders / specialists etc.

b. you get what you pay for. people want stuff cheap and they often get cheap. it stands to reason that good work takes time and money. for example, building an engine is 90% measuring and cleaning. why does an engine built properly cost so much.... time. why should you be weary when someone sells you an engine or head that has been allegedly been rebuild but is still cheap.... time (= quality).

all garages work to a price, and this invariably means corners are sometimes cut. of course this is not right but it is the result of supply and demand. simple economics. some garages work on the principle of differentiation (as opposed to cost for all you marketing gurus) and in this case people pay for a job to be done properly (one would hope).

c. and lastly... everyone makes mistakes. if a clear responsibility is owed to a customer for a job that has developed a fault then it is for the two parties to resolve. in the first instance at least.

I am an admin of a large car forum and our rules are that any disputes should be handled off the board first, before any names are mentioned. Then, and only then, if the company does not respond can a member post details of their experience. We insist that any allegations are factual with evidence to support discussions and the company is advised of the thread so that they are afforded the opportunity to impart their views and dispute any allegation.

This happens very very rarely, in fact I cant remember the last time - probably 3-4 years ago. What often results is that the full story evolves.

Busy internet forums are very powerful and should be used and managed with care. Mods have a difficult task in managing posts and members with often strong characters and straddle a fine line between being accused of being impartial, ineffective or of being over moderating hitlers.

Ultimately monkeys are exposed for who they really are and the good folk are identified. Unfortunately this sometimes takes years.....

.... coming soon to a forum post near you.... Rudi's rant laugh

Re: Specialists - How good is their work... [Re: ] #1197969
07/04/2011 13:44
07/04/2011 13:44
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643
Watford
MarioCirillo Offline
Ex El Presidente
MarioCirillo  Offline
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643
Watford
Biggenz has now requested that this thread can now be locked. It will only be reopend on his request.

Thanks,

Mario


Proud Owner of Rosso Speed LE041
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