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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225439
09/06/2011 22:21
09/06/2011 22:21
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Tazz2732
Unregistered
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Tazz2732
Unregistered
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Taz only saw your post now man.
That post is on the money, balanced, polished and shot peened, would be a good talking point, although in todays market man hours are expensive and parts are just as expensive, so would probably opt for new parts,
And then you come to the problem of that when most coupe owners open there engines, a piston is cracked more often than not anyway,
I personally think people are taking the piss, 50 quid to chrome a starter motor! WHAT! Jog on.
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225445
09/06/2011 22:30
09/06/2011 22:30
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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hi no wheels are not the same .. an rsr, as its called, is basically a 28r with a bit more top end flow from the rs wheel which i think is a 62 off the top of my head ,same size as the stage 3 hybrids .. it was a pro alloy intercooler on my 358 though i use a evo8 now on my 2.5 and there is no real difference on the type of set up we are talking about..to be honest most of the guys with the 350 type power have standard heads and manifolds both sides ..it tends to be the forged set ups going for bigger power that work the manifolds, though if barbz builds them he works manifolds as a matter of course.. the 358 was made with 3" 5 stud downpipe...though before this i had a car with 340 on a 28r with a 2.5" system from turbo back on a vband...i used silcone pipes both times. i would stick my neck out and say if you used the stage 3 hybrid which is a great little turbo, you wouldn't need more than a 2.5" anyway ..with a 28rs the 2.75 blueflame on a vband would be fine it would be a negligable difference with a 5 stud though no doubt someone will disagree... as for whether its worth working inlet it does no harm to match to gasket, exhaust doesn't really need it unless you are going 400+ then i would give it to barbz as he has a lot of experience with them and knows how to get the best from them after years of experimenting..again i think untill you are going to push it to the 400+ level it would make a negligable difference having the exhaust manifold worked and can be detrimental to mid range torque on a medium power car(under 400)but that depends on the work to some degree.. all this is my opinion based on the cars i have had so you may find others diagreeing i may have the odd inaccuracy as i am not checking anything with regard turbo wheels etc thats just from memory but i hope it helps
Last edited by ktm450exc; 09/06/2011 23:15.
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225456
09/06/2011 22:46
09/06/2011 22:46
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Tazz2732
Unregistered
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Tazz2732
Unregistered
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Reference the manifold, you say it doesn't really need to be worked under 400Hp, fair enough,
ok say you have 350HP (standard manifold) and no restriction noticed,
Working the ex manifold by (Barbz) say 10 Horsepower is found in it, so its 360 now, you have released more power without ever being concerned necesarily with restrictions, (although if you want to get technicall the power is coming from being less restrictive) I think ill have to speak to Barbz in the coming weeks.
Bottom line, standard manifold ok to 400hp. Can it be made to increase power though?
Any takers on the oil questions then?
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225457
09/06/2011 22:49
09/06/2011 22:49
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doug20vt
Unregistered
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doug20vt
Unregistered
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Ktm is the turbine on the 28R the same size as the 28rs According to the Garrett site, both run the same turbine wheel and housing. the gt28r uses a 62trim 11 blade turbine wheel, as found in the standard turbo and most hybrids, while the gt28rs uses a larger 76trim 9 blade turbine wheel that is capable of greater flow, the housings can be had in either 0.64a/r or 0.86a/r
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225458
09/06/2011 22:49
09/06/2011 22:49
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group5lancia
Unregistered
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group5lancia
Unregistered
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Bottom line, standard manifold ok to 400hp. Can it be made to increase power though? Bottom line is if you want more than 360BHP you will need a turbo capable of flowing more than 360BHP...... and if your target is 360BHP - don't worry overmuch about the manifold.
Last edited by group5lancia; 09/06/2011 22:51.
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225459
09/06/2011 22:50
09/06/2011 22:50
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Tazz2732
Unregistered
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Tazz2732
Unregistered
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And the 2.5 inch downpipe, is that the standard 1, can't find many 20vt sizes of anything, apart from TB, turbo inlet, which is a useless bit of info,
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225460
09/06/2011 22:56
09/06/2011 22:56
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Tazz2732
Unregistered
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Tazz2732
Unregistered
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Bottom line, standard manifold ok to 400hp. Can it be made to increase power though? Bottom line is if you want more than 360BHP you will need a turbo capable of flowing more than 360BHP...... and if your target is 360BHP - don't worry overmuch about the manifold. Totally agree(and bow down) turbo needs to be able to flow more to make use of this, as I was saying about nissans EtC, Just for reference I'm not trying to use the ex mani as a crutch to more power, just trying to find a rounded system, an equal of sorts, can we talk SIPs/ standard induction path for a minute
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225461
09/06/2011 22:58
09/06/2011 22:58
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group5lancia
Unregistered
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group5lancia
Unregistered
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Yep -you are right. My eyes aren't working properly!
I was looking at the standard fitted turbo and the GT2860R/GT28R - which do use the same turbine.
Last edited by group5lancia; 09/06/2011 23:00.
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225463
09/06/2011 23:03
09/06/2011 23:03
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Tazz2732
Unregistered
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Tazz2732
Unregistered
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Let's say the standard induction path is pretty good, say you have a pressure loss (all in) of 1psi, so atmospheirc is now 13.7psi meeting the turbo, putting a Sip would bring this down as theory would have it, but most who use them have nothing good to say, and results aren't noticable,
this means that 0.5 - 0.8 psi rise does nothing, probably because the turbo is running at its max efficiency,and can't utilise any more air, even if it is free atmospheric air, ( which leads me to believe that everyone here runs as much as they can from there setup? Is that right, with not a drop of margin to spare on the turbo?
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225468
09/06/2011 23:10
09/06/2011 23:10
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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i think the sip issues come more from the maf sip situation than anything else..
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225469
09/06/2011 23:15
09/06/2011 23:15
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Tazz2732
Unregistered
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Tazz2732
Unregistered
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i think the sip issues come more from the maf sip situation than anything else.. As in maf being too close to turbo etc?
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225537
10/06/2011 05:37
10/06/2011 05:37
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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yes ,a lot of people are not aware what the issue is so are not happy with the sip when fitted or if they do know what it is they are not happy at the fact they need to put a bend in if they can't add enough length to pipework due to limited space
Last edited by ktm450exc; 10/06/2011 05:39.
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225538
10/06/2011 06:21
10/06/2011 06:21
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Tazz2732
Unregistered
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Tazz2732
Unregistered
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Got you. And the maf wants to be where in relation to the bend in the pipe work,
Do these engines respond to having the mafs positioned just up from the Throttle body?
Any news on oil temps anyone? Still on the hunt,
Waiting for a delivery today, fuel pressure gauge, electric sender etc, anyone use one? Start small end big I say,
I'm going to speak to a few turbo places today. Looking around the stage 3 hybrid neck of the woods.
Keeping the standard down pipe,
and if anyone is throwing 5 x 16vt injectors around,PM ill take em, for a decent price, wanted list to follow in parts wanted,
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225553
10/06/2011 09:19
10/06/2011 09:19
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,294 Sandhurst
Begbie
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,294
Sandhurst
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Just to add incase no one has found these . Forged rods, H beam - 4340. tested at 600HP, no other figures provided iirc,
£370
JW-racing.de
They also sell shells etc for the 20vt They will be crap chinese copys. Avoid. I'm half chinese but I won't go on about racism, True a lot of stuff is not up to the task, but there are a lot of people running cheap chinese knock off turbos with no problems, and yes there are a few that have problems. I have seen problems with all turbo manufacturers, where do we meet on the , good/bad parts Eh? Racism? I'm not being racist at all. I'm just saying, there is a reason why 5 x forged con-rods are cheap. I have purchased said cheap con-rods years ago, Guy Croft tested them and found they were too brittle, the small end was to tight for the gudgeon pin and the big end was oval, worse than a standard used rod. Would you really want to pay £370 for an unknown product that could cause thousand's of pounds worth of damamge, or pay a few hundred pounds more for a reliable product?
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225574
10/06/2011 10:09
10/06/2011 10:09
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eldinho
Unregistered
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eldinho
Unregistered
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The old saying "Do it once, do it properly"
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225580
10/06/2011 10:27
10/06/2011 10:27
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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The old saying "Do it once, do it properly" completley agree!!!!!!
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225582
10/06/2011 10:32
10/06/2011 10:32
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eldinho
Unregistered
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eldinho
Unregistered
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and then rip it to bits 15 months later
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225583
10/06/2011 10:32
10/06/2011 10:32
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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before letting me have a go in it
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Re: new tuning 20vt, thoughts appreciated
[Re: ]
#1225589
10/06/2011 10:38
10/06/2011 10:38
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doug20vt
Unregistered
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doug20vt
Unregistered
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for your info Tazz, the standard downpipe and exhaust size is 2.25inch
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