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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408834
04/02/2013 16:42
04/02/2013 16:42

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



Oi!
Quote:
I'll let Barbz and Biggez say how much their hearts are broken
laugh

The only 2 coupe's that comfortably breezed past 400hp on the day.. cool laugh

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: ] #1408835
04/02/2013 16:58
04/02/2013 16:58

B
Biggenz
Unregistered
Biggenz
Unregistered
B



Originally Posted By: Barbz
Oi!
Quote:
I'll let Barbz and Biggez say how much their hearts are broken
laugh

The only 2 coupe's that comfortably breezed past 400hp on the day.. cool laugh



Ahem. Only one Coupe breezed past 500bhp on the day. laugh

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408840
04/02/2013 17:21
04/02/2013 17:21
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,480
Aldershot
PeteP Offline
Hon Club Member 005, Membership Secretary
PeteP  Offline
Hon Club Member 005, Membership Secretary
Forum Fossil

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,480
Aldershot
Willies are only to be waved at dawn thanks.
Click to reveal..
She may not be too happy either.


16VT and X1/9 1500

We must all do our part for the planet.
I unplugged a row of electric cars that nobody was using.
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408855
04/02/2013 19:00
04/02/2013 19:00

B
Biggenz
Unregistered
Biggenz
Unregistered
B



Funny you should say that. I know a Dawn. And I don't like to wake up at crack of Dawn.

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: ] #1408878
04/02/2013 20:22
04/02/2013 20:22

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



Quote:
Ahem. Only one Coupe breezed past 500bhp on the day



Lol! laugh laugh laugh

Aiding and abetting wink

Last edited by Barbz; 04/02/2013 20:49.
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408905
04/02/2013 22:11
04/02/2013 22:11

J
johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
J





Who got the most torque on the day?

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408917
04/02/2013 22:46
04/02/2013 22:46

K
Kenno
Unregistered
Kenno
Unregistered
K



The GT-R, then me. wink

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408930
04/02/2013 23:27
04/02/2013 23:27

J
johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
J



Anyone take any videos of the Gtr?
Was it new shape r35?

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: ] #1408945
05/02/2013 01:18
05/02/2013 01:18
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 548
Oxford
Sean_C Offline
Club member 2023
Sean_C  Offline
Club member 2023
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 548
Oxford
Originally Posted By: Barbz
Quote:




Here's mine. I got to say I'm broken by the HeartBreaker!!

I have also scanned the last RR session graph at Owen Developments for comparison purposes.



The plots of the two graphs are very similar right up to approx 5000 revs ,it's then the obvious differences occur.Dropping to 1 Bar of boost by 5500 revs didn't help, where I seem to remember at Owen's holding 1.3 BAR wasn't a problem.The Coop was still on a Novitec chip back then but has since been mapped by Flea.


Im sorry, I still have not worked out how to link a photo properly even after all these years. If somebody would be kind enough ...................

Oh yes, thanks to Gunzi for the organizing of course and always good to see/meet old/new fact


Your problem stems from the power sapping 10afr fuel mixture. shocked So not the end of the world, an easy fix.





So what's the fix The Wise Old One?


Enjoying Coop ownership, second time round . Also enjoying RWD action in a thundering V8 E90 M3.
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408963
05/02/2013 07:06
05/02/2013 07:06
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
G
Gunzi Offline
Club member 189, Former Club President
Gunzi  Offline
Club member 189, Former Club President
Je suis un Coupé
G

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
Yes it was the new shaped one, the R35? I chatted to Ian and it had a few upgrades including the Y pipe and a stage conversion. No videos by me but it rolled 569bhp and sounded amazing!

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Sean_C] #1408966
05/02/2013 07:55
05/02/2013 07:55

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



Call me and i'll sort it wink

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408972
05/02/2013 08:09
05/02/2013 08:09
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Flea Offline
Forum is my life
Flea  Offline
Forum is my life

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Originally Posted By: Sean_C
Originally Posted By: Barbz
Quote:




Here's mine. I got to say I'm broken by the HeartBreaker!!

I have also scanned the last RR session graph at Owen Developments for comparison purposes.



The plots of the two graphs are very similar right up to approx 5000 revs ,it's then the obvious differences occur.Dropping to 1 Bar of boost by 5500 revs didn't help, where I seem to remember at Owen's holding 1.3 BAR wasn't a problem.The Coop was still on a Novitec chip back then but has since been mapped by Flea.


Im sorry, I still have not worked out how to link a photo properly even after all these years. If somebody would be kind enough ...................

Oh yes, thanks to Gunzi for the organizing of course and always good to see/meet old/new fact


Your problem stems from the power sapping 10afr fuel mixture. shocked So not the end of the world, an easy fix.





So what's the fix The Wise Old One?


The first step would be to let me check it on the road, as it has been four years this month since it was mapped, so potential for variances in engine components/sensors over that time. I have looked at your old logs and you are only running 0.3-0.4 AFR richer than I set it, so not a million miles out at all. We never had your Coupe on my dyno, so would be good to compare smile

As for it having a power sapping 10 AFR, if you actually look at the graph you will see it only briefly touches 10.9 between 3.5-4.5k, but in all other areas it is averaging 11.1-11.2 and at peak power it is 11.4 so far from being power sapping!! There seems to be considerable lack of understanding regarding air fuel ratios on power/torque, something I will be addressing in detail later on.

The main problem with your car is the lack of boost, if you compare your car to deannn_20vt, as you both have the same RSR turbo, you will see you have 0.25bar less boost pretty much all the way to the redline. That's a lot of pressure to be giving up!

Code:
        Deann_20vt  Sean_C
RPM
3.5k    1.4bar      1.4bar
4.5k    1.35bar     1.2bar
5.5k    1.3bar      1.05bar
6.5k    1.2bar      0.95bar


The main culprit for this is the wastegate actuator, therefore we should adjust the pre-load or replace for a 14psi actuator so that the correct level of boost can be used. I'll give you a call later Sean smile



[Linked Image]

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408974
05/02/2013 08:21
05/02/2013 08:21
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Flea Offline
Forum is my life
Flea  Offline
Forum is my life

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Oh and we still seem to be missing a fair few graphs, come on chaps!!


[Linked Image]

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Flea] #1408976
05/02/2013 08:34
05/02/2013 08:34
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,829
kidderminster
nick_d Offline
My life on the forum
nick_d  Offline
My life on the forum

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,829
kidderminster
Just out of interest how much more power do you think both dean-20vt and Begbie would have got if they've have achieved the boost they get on the road...
Dean-20vt's usually holds 1.4 to redline (1.2 @ redline on dyno)
Begbies is normally 1.5 to redline (boost only got to 1.35 then held all the way)????
I reckon dean-20vt would have got to around 340 (from 322) & Begbie would have done atleast 420 (from 399), & prob 400 torques!!
All speculation I know, but it seems Fleas Dastek is at MOST 5% out..... Although tim42's results are near identicle!!


Nick



368bhp @ 1.5 bar
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408979
05/02/2013 08:40
05/02/2013 08:40
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline OP
Ex El Presidente
Begbie  Offline OP
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: nick_d] #1408986
05/02/2013 09:15
05/02/2013 09:15
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Flea Offline
Forum is my life
Flea  Offline
Forum is my life

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Originally Posted By: nick_d
Just out of interest how much more power do you think both dean-20vt and Begbie would have got if they've have achieved the boost they get on the road...
Dean-20vt's usually holds 1.4 to redline (1.2 @ redline on dyno)
Begbies is normally 1.5 to redline (boost only got to 1.35 then held all the way)????
I reckon dean-20vt would have got to around 340 (from 322) & Begbie would have done atleast 420 (from 399), & prob 400 torques!!
All speculation I know, but it seems Fleas Dastek is at MOST 5% out..... Although tim42's results are near identicle!!
Nick


Well Jack (deannn_20vt) didn't have his car on my dyno when I detuned it from 99 to 97 octane, although I don't think his does hold 1.4bar all the way from memory. As for Begbie, well I agree it would have seen another 20bhp and 15lbs/ft, well within the efficiency of the turbo.

Tim's green Coupe now has a Stage 3 hybrid and all the usual bolt on mods, although I haven't mapped it so not sure how it has been setup. It certainly needs some attention as 1.55bar is way too much boost (and likely more on the road!), especially if AFR's are all over the place. Very unusual to have torque higher than bhp, and peak power at 5200rpm that never happens on a 20vt engine. The only time I ever really see this is if the engine is detonating badly at peak torque (cylinder pressures), so torque and power drop off a cliff.


[Linked Image]

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Flea] #1408989
05/02/2013 09:26
05/02/2013 09:26

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



Quote:
As for it having a power sapping 10 AFR, if you actually look at the graph you will see it only briefly touches 10.9 between 3.5-4.5k, but in all other areas it is averaging 11.1-11.2 and at peak power it is 11.4 so far from being power sapping!! There seems to be considerable lack of understanding regarding air fuel ratios on power/torque, something I will be addressing in detail later on.


Here's an AFR table to help.

Air/fuel mixture and characteristics

6.0 rich burn limit (fully warm engine)
9.0/10.0 black smoke/low power
11.5 approx rich best torque at wide-open throttle
12.0 safe best power at wide-open throttle
13.3 approx lean best torque
14.6 stoichiometric AFR (chemically ideal) <-- mean just enough fuel and air
15.5 lean cruise
16.5 usual best economy

smile

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Flea] #1408990
05/02/2013 09:32
05/02/2013 09:32

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



Quote:
I'll give you a call later Sean


Please contact Jamie5 and Stuart81 as they need your asisstance also. smile

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1408992
05/02/2013 09:47
05/02/2013 09:47
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Flea Offline
Forum is my life
Flea  Offline
Forum is my life

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
I already have Barbz wink Anyway, let's see your graphs!

Interesting to note the GTR R35 air fuel ratios!

click to enlarge

Code:
RPM
2700 - 10.8
3600 - 10.8
4500 - 11.0
5400 - 11.4
6300 - 11.6
6800 - 11.5


[Linked Image]

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Flea] #1408995
05/02/2013 10:05
05/02/2013 10:05

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



Brilliant!

One sec.

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Flea] #1408999
05/02/2013 10:18
05/02/2013 10:18

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



All and well having great peak power figures but the journey to 500hp can be an interesting one. cool laugh

click to enlarge

Quote:
Anyway, let's see your graphs




Last edited by Barbz; 05/02/2013 10:59.
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: ] #1409002
05/02/2013 10:25
05/02/2013 10:25
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline OP
Ex El Presidente
Begbie  Offline OP
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Originally Posted By: Barbz
All and well having great peak power figures but the journey to 500hp can be an interesting one. cool laugh

click to enlarge

Quote:
Anyway, let's see your graphs

Do you have your old 2bar, 502hp graphs to hand to compare? laugh



At least scan it so it shows the X axis too! rofl


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: ] #1409003
05/02/2013 10:27
05/02/2013 10:27

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



Oops! Forgot legend. smile

Biggenz - Green.
PT6262 82ar (GT35 category) crazy
2.15bar

Mine - Black.
GTX3076 82ar
1.9bar

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1409004
05/02/2013 10:29
05/02/2013 10:29

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



Scanned by a third party rofl

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Flea] #1409005
05/02/2013 10:33
05/02/2013 10:33

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



Quote:
Interesting to note the GTR R35 air fuel ratios!


What you'd suspect from a remapped version i suppose? wink

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: ] #1409018
05/02/2013 11:27
05/02/2013 11:27
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,670
SW London
Rudidudi Offline
My life on the forum
Rudidudi  Offline
My life on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,670
SW London
Originally Posted By: Barbz
All and well having great peak power figures but the journey to 500hp can be an interesting one. cool laugh

click to enlarge

Quote:
Anyway, let's see your graphs





Pictures and thousand words spring to mind

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Flea] #1409028
05/02/2013 12:32
05/02/2013 12:32
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 252
Oldham, Manchester
stuart81 Offline
Making a profit
stuart81  Offline
Making a profit

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 252
Oldham, Manchester
Originally Posted By: Flea
Oh and we still seem to be missing a fair few graphs, come on chaps!!


I'll scan my graphs when I get home tonight, mine wasn't holding boost so someone maybe able to shed light on what the issue maybe. It's also idling very strangely once hot (I'll post up a clip of what I mean).


Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Begbie] #1409050
05/02/2013 14:17
05/02/2013 14:17
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,486
London Tan
technics Offline
I need some sleep
technics  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,486
London Tan
Lots of results missing guys cmon.

Someone should do a list, a bit like the attendees list then bhp and torque figures next to names.


Now in the 400+ bhp club!
Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: Flea] #1409051
05/02/2013 14:17
05/02/2013 14:17

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



Quote:
Interesting to note the GTR R35 air fuel ratios!



If i spent 50k on a GTR R35 and my afr profile look like that, i'd send it back. rolleyes

Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results [Re: ] #1409062
05/02/2013 15:52
05/02/2013 15:52

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



Quote:
All and well having great peak power figures but the journey to 500hp can be an interesting one


On tarmac, both coupe's have unrelenting power deliver in every gear. Biggenz's has 1 main advantage due to the size of turbocharger, he's able to stretch the rpm threshold further in each gear by 1300rpm. crazy laugh I make up the loss lower down for a more track focused setup. cool

Horses for courses.. smile

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