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Better turbo - same power #1493089
10/06/2014 01:28
10/06/2014 01:28
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 771
North Wales
Solouko Offline OP
Enjoying the ride
Solouko  Offline OP
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 771
North Wales
Hi guys, I'm really confused by turbo chargers and I need to ask the people in the know once and for all.

I'm looking at getting a new replacement turbo for my coop but I dont just want to but a refurbished standard one back in, I want some sort of an improvement.

Now I keep hearing peole banging on about stage one, stage 2, hybrid turbo and 360 degree bearings and it all sounds really cool, but what does it all mean? And aren't all bearings 360 degree, otherwise they wouldn't spin.


Now, I dont want more power out of my coop, I'm perfectly happy with 240HP thet it's giving me, but if I can upgrade it and make it more reliable, consistent or let it spool quicker, i'd really enjoy that. So what do all the 'upgrades' actually mean, what do they do and why should I want them?


And then, lastly, where do I get them from? so far peoplpe have listed for me the following companies:
Turbo dynamics
Turbo technics
Owen Developments
and one other that I can't remember

So, who and why?


Re: Better turbo - same power [Re: Solouko] #1493098
10/06/2014 07:52
10/06/2014 07:52
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,614
S Wales
chrissy Offline
Tourque Italia member!
chrissy  Offline
Tourque Italia member!
Forum is my job

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,614
S Wales
Leighton @ FC performance offers supply & fit, or just supply of turbos,

Stage 1,2,3 are just rated to work at higher BHP, stage 1 upto 292bhp, stage 2 300bhp-310, stage 3 upto 360bhp,
In the tuning section is a comprehensive section on turbos & what they do.. Or Gunzi will be along soon to advise wink

Re: Better turbo - same power [Re: Solouko] #1493112
10/06/2014 09:01
10/06/2014 09:01

G
go_fast_Chris
Unregistered
go_fast_Chris
Unregistered
G



FC performance all the way here mate, best thing i can suggest to you.

if its of any help my understanding is the standard turbo has no bearings, as in something like phosper bronze and shaft type thing with oil sandwich in it, oil seals at the end.

so ball bearings would allow better spool up of turbo, less strain internally, thus most likely longer life... no idea if ball bearings are an option on a standard turbo, but certainly are on bigger ones....

Re: Better turbo - same power [Re: Solouko] #1493114
10/06/2014 09:17
10/06/2014 09:17
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,614
S Wales
chrissy Offline
Tourque Italia member!
chrissy  Offline
Tourque Italia member!
Forum is my job

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,614
S Wales
stage 1,2,3 are Journal bearings - In a standard T28 Housing, Ball bearing turbos are GT28R/S Upwards, Supporting over 360BHP - 450BHP, Albiet with more turbo lag, Anyone wanring JUST 240bhp, will be best suited to a stage 1 hybrid, just as efficient in spool as the standard turbo, But can support a touch more power / decat if needed..

Re: Better turbo - same power [Re: Solouko] #1493115
10/06/2014 09:35
10/06/2014 09:35
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 853
East Anglia
one4seven Offline
Enjoying the ride
one4seven  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 853
East Anglia
^ This certainly seems the best way to go for modest power increase with extra durability.

I think PowerItalia in Essex will sell and fit you a new standard turbo but with upgraded bearing and staggered seals (should you wish to run a decat).


[Linked Image]
Ollie
Re: Better turbo - same power [Re: Solouko] #1493164
10/06/2014 15:37
10/06/2014 15:37
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
kj16v Offline
My life on the forum
kj16v  Offline
My life on the forum

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
Hi, Solouko. BTW, I PM'd you back.

"Stage 1" "stage 2", etc. are just nifty sounding buzzwords that various companies give to their products (unless we're talking Turbonetics and Garrett turbines; those "stages" actually refer to specfic turbine sizes). There's no hard and fast rules as to what a particular "stage" turbo actually contains - other than stage 2 is probably a bit better than stage 1! For example, one company's stage 1 turbo might just have uprated oil seals and thrust bearing, whereas another's might have all that and cut-back turbine blades for less exhaust restriction.

If you're after stock performance then the best turbo would be a stock turbo, uprated with a staggered-gap oil seal (makes it harder for oil to seap past the turbine shaft and into the exhaust) and a bolted 360 degree thrust bearing (this is the "360 bearing that you've heard about it's a solid fluid bearing, as opposed to spinning bearing). a 360 deg. thrust bearing helps increase the reliability of the turbo under higher boost by providing a larger surface area for the turbo to push against.

The stock 20VT turbo is teeny-weeny enough as it is! and you wouldn't really want it to spool up significantly quicker than it already does or else it would make the car feel unpredictable when trying to pull off from a standstill.

Speaking of oil seals and such, uprated seals and bearings are always better, but it still doesn't make up for the quality of the place who built it. I got my 20VT cheaply because the exhaust was smoking like a factory chimney. It turned out to the "stage 1" turbo that came with the car and was all of 18 months old , so I rebuilt it myself, with a new staggered-gap oil seal. Still smokes a bit in traffic, so I'll probably bin it in maybe for a Kinugawa TD05H of some sort.

Re: Better turbo - same power [Re: Solouko] #1493263
10/06/2014 23:50
10/06/2014 23:50

T
TurboJ
Unregistered
TurboJ
Unregistered
T



Originally Posted By: Solouko
And aren't all bearings 360 degree, otherwise they wouldn't spin.


Quote of the year laugh (no offence this just made me laugh)

Re: Better turbo - same power [Re: Solouko] #1493274
11/06/2014 01:54
11/06/2014 01:54
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 771
North Wales
Solouko Offline OP
Enjoying the ride
Solouko  Offline OP
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 771
North Wales
staggered-gap oil seal
bolted 360 degree thrust bearing
Standard turbo

so if I ask for all that, I should get what's best for my car.

And one vote for PowerItalia... anyone else got any suggestions? Like what company to phone up and ask?


Re: Better turbo - same power [Re: Solouko] #1493312
11/06/2014 09:19
11/06/2014 09:19
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,904
Poland
deannn_20VT Offline
My life on the forum
deannn_20VT  Offline
My life on the forum

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,904
Poland
Originally Posted By: Solouko
anyone else got any suggestions? Like what company to phone up and ask?
You got two more recommendations on this page - FC Performance, kj16v runs Voodoo Tuning and I believe that John from Midlands Car Servicing (johnnybravoturbo) has got someone who can build and supply turbo units.

Re: Better turbo - same power [Re: Solouko] #1493334
11/06/2014 10:25
11/06/2014 10:25
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Flea Offline
Forum is my life
Flea  Offline
Forum is my life

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Last year I developed two new hybrid turbos, both designed for maximum response and flow. The new entry level turbo spools just as fast as standard, but can flow significantly more in midrange and top end power. This is the fastest spooling hybrid available.

Take a look here to see a comparison!


[Linked Image]


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