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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: spyke]
#1493998
15/06/2014 11:27
15/06/2014 11:27
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Kenno
Unregistered
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Kenno
Unregistered
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Surely you don't remap for economy? I've had my 330d remapped and it does about the same fuel economy.
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: spyke]
#1494002
15/06/2014 12:06
15/06/2014 12:06
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366 Staffordshire
Nigel
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
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I had my Alfa GT diesel remapped for economy (no point in going for more power - if I want to go quickly, I take the Coupe) Along with an EGR blank and a Terraclean, I have raised my tank average from 44 to 49 - in fact the worst tank mpg I've had since the remap is almost exactly the same as my BEST tank mpg prior - fairly conclusive evidence, I'd say Fuelly record - remap & Terraclean done in Feb 2014 TBH, it has more power too - its difficult to remap and NOT get more power, as torque is usually enhanced Let me know the exact model and I can quote for your various options (max power, pure economy or a "blended" map giving a bit of both)
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: barnacle]
#1494189
16/06/2014 09:38
16/06/2014 09:38
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366 Staffordshire
Nigel
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
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Nigel, I'm interested - same engine as yours, I think, in a 1.9 JTD Multijet 150 Bravo, 2008. Looking for economy, not power. Yes - same engine - mine's a 2008 Alfa GT 1.9 16v - 150bhp FWIW, when I REALLY tried for a good mpg figure (by cruising at 55-60 and slipstreaming the HGVs), I managed 64mpg for a 60-mile commute As well as a remap, you should also have a read up about Terraclean - sounds terribly like a snake-oil product, but it really does work We can do both at Motormech
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: barnacle]
#1494220
16/06/2014 11:53
16/06/2014 11:53
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
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Do you find that the consumption is significantly affected by rain on the road, or strong winds? Can be 5-10% worse for me in bad weather. At last! - Someone who agrees.... My mpg seems to drop by a noticeable amount in wet weather. There's always the chance that this is because there's more traffic (parents driving kids to school, or driving to work instead of cycliing) My average speed on my daily commute was usually under 30mph - I've never beaten 40mph average Something to try - don't use the cruise control - I found it worsened the mpg, so the only time I ever use it is through a few miles of average speed camera. Normally the traffic is simply too heavy to use it How accurate is your fuel consumption meter? Mine used to be out by 2-3mpg, but since the remap, its accurate to within 1mpg
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: spyke]
#1494300
16/06/2014 18:59
16/06/2014 18:59
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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I find I have to constantly feather the throttle on the family boo. I can easly average +10mpg on the wife so around 52 average. Thats 65 ish on fast roads and doing my own thing, lots of pre planning round abouts, retards in front and traffic lights!
Am I now to understand that a 190 quid map will see me hit 60 mpg???
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: spyke]
#1494301
16/06/2014 19:01
16/06/2014 19:01
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Nigel, can I ask if you get the diesel black soot plumes after your map?
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: ]
#1494305
16/06/2014 19:09
16/06/2014 19:09
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
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Am I now to understand that a 190 quid map will see me hit 60 mpg??? I think 60mpg average from 52 is unlikely, but I'd be surprised if it didn't beat 55mpg, and maybe even 57. Remember you're looking at a £100 Terraclean treatment as well - in my case (160,000 miles on the clock) it made a couple of mpg difference
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: ]
#1494306
16/06/2014 19:10
16/06/2014 19:10
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
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Nigel, can I ask if you get the diesel black soot plumes after your map? Yes, but less than it used to. Remember that the Alfa GT doesn't have a DPF, so you'll always get smoke when planting the throttle, especially after a prolonged period of very light throttle
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: spyke]
#1494343
16/06/2014 21:44
16/06/2014 21:44
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Cool, my boo is only on 60k so not sure how much difference a clean wouldmake but it would be good to get a map - do you do it in house?
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: Nigel]
#1494433
17/06/2014 16:35
17/06/2014 16:35
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Kenno
Unregistered
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Kenno
Unregistered
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I had my Alfa GT diesel remapped for economy (no point in going for more power - if I want to go quickly, I take the Coupe)
Along with an EGR blank and a Terraclean, I have raised my tank average from 44 to 49 - in fact the worst tank mpg I've had since the remap is almost exactly the same as my BEST tank mpg prior - fairly conclusive evidence, I'd say
Unfortunately not. If you just had it remapped then there's a basis for comparison, but blanking the EGR and doing whatever a terraclean is, you've altered the parameters of the test. For those wishing to JUST get a few more MPG, try bunging in a couple of bottles of Forte lubricants. But the offset of the cost of the additive will be much more than the savings at the pump from gained MPG.
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: ]
#1494437
17/06/2014 16:53
17/06/2014 16:53
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
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Unfortunately not. If you just had it remapped then there's a basis for comparison, but blanking the EGR and doing whatever a terraclean is, you've altered the parameters of the test. There was no "test" - I made it absolutely clear that my 5mpg improvement has come about by virtue of three modifications (or two if you count the EGR deletion as part of the remap process) - I have no idea how much gain was attributable to each of the mods, I just know the net effect The two mods weren't done at exactly the same time, but they were done on the same tank of fuel, so I never got chance to measure the effects of each in turn. However, I can categorically say that the remap made the car much smoother and definitely more powerful / torquey. The Terraclean treatment refined it even further, with a noticeable improvement in throttle response and general engine refinement FWIW, I also use Millers diesel additive, which I've done since about August last year - it made about 1.5 - 2mpg difference, which considering each treatment costs about £1.30, is well worth it (2mpg over a 13 gallon tank is about 25 miles, or £3.00 saving). However, I've been using this before and after the mods, so it doesn't alter the results of the remap / Terraclean
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: spyke]
#1494456
17/06/2014 19:55
17/06/2014 19:55
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Kenno
Unregistered
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Kenno
Unregistered
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Fair enough Nigel, but telling people that they can get a map for 'economy' has to be substantiated with evidence. Especially if you're selling it as a service.
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: Nigel]
#1494465
17/06/2014 20:42
17/06/2014 20:42
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,069
cjh
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,069
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I had my Alfa GT diesel remapped for economy (no point in going for more power - if I want to go quickly, I take the Coupe) Along with an EGR blank and a Terraclean, I have raised my tank average from 44 to 49 - in fact the worst tank mpg I've had since the remap is almost exactly the same as my BEST tank mpg prior - fairly conclusive evidence, I'd say Fuelly record - remap & Terraclean done in Feb 2014 TBH, it has more power too - its difficult to remap and NOT get more power, as torque is usually enhanced Let me know the exact model and I can quote for your various options (max power, pure economy or a "blended" map giving a bit of both) Hi Nigel , interested in this for my BMW 530d m sport, with DPF Probably blended is best, mind you I'm not sure if I should tinker with it at all - it's given me 200,000 with no major bills 😎 PM me details please Cj Also Nigel can you confirm that the price for DPF removed, Performance Remap, DPF Delete and EGR Delete £320+vat would be the same for my BMW and if you guys can do it? Thanks again
Last edited by cjh; 18/06/2014 09:58.
"Storm Brewing" +
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: spyke]
#1495058
21/06/2014 13:38
21/06/2014 13:38
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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Modern diesels really are a revelation for the modern motorist. Ultra clean, and great torque/mpg make it a winning combination. They also map up incredibly well, almost to the point where you can equal or better the output of the next engine size, so worth considering when looking at which model to buy!
As for fuel economy, well it's not so straight forward as it does rely almost exclusively on driving style. Diesels are quite different to petrol engines in that it really is all about the fuel i.e. injected quantity, and start of injection. In order to achieve better economy we need to increase torque at low rpms where higher gearing can be used effectively. Increasing torque increases the flexibility of the engine allowing a higher gear to be used under many more conditions without the need to drop a gear or rev the engine harder.
So how do we achieve more torque? Well it's quite simple, we MUST inject more fuel! For a diesel, more fuel means more power. However, it has to be done correctly for two main reasons 1. Smoke 2. EGTs. Too much fuel and the smoke will become very apparent! It will also elevate EGTs considerably, the exact opposite to petrol engines, with the biggest concern being turbo failure. The way to combat this conundrum is with boost! More airflow will clean up the smoke and reduce EGTs thus allowing us to increase power cleanly and safely. Now all this can be done to achieve maximum torque and power across the full rpm range i.e. up to circa 4500rpm, or we can simply concentrate on the peak torque area of 1500-2500rpm. This is where most people will utilise the engine, and if driven correctly you will see some small gains in mpg. If using the torque for maximum performance (aka fun!) your mpg will go down.
I tune a lot of diesels, and generally most owners will see a small increase in mpg after they calm down from the massive increase in thrust! My own Volvo XC90 D5 saw 4mpg increase, mainly because it's a big heavy car and the extra torque really benefits the gearing. I am going to tweak it a little further for a little more around 2000rpm. I very rarely rev that engine, it's just not that type of car! On the flipside, I have a Seat Ibiza PD130 in at the minute which is receiving one of my special hybrid turbo upgrades. Aiming for 220bhp from this little rocket with circa 350lbs/ft, now that will rev hard all the way to 4500rpm!!!
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: spyke]
#1495092
21/06/2014 21:38
21/06/2014 21:38
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Its just a shame a diesel.sounds like a, errr, diesel!
Interesting to read more fuel and more air means better economy.
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: spyke]
#1495096
21/06/2014 22:30
21/06/2014 22:30
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
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TBH, once you're driving a decent, modern diesel, it sounds just fine (in fact even in my leggy Alfa GT 1.9, you can't really hear the engine at motorway cruising speeds - it just thrums along at about 2000rpm) Yes, its horribly tractor-like when you're on the outside of the car, especially in warm weather (no idea why - just seems to sound more clattery) However, I had to do a 250 mile round trip to Oxford and back today - set the cruise control at an indicated 75mph on the M40 / M42 and took it modestly easy - returned 53mpg - can't really complain REALLY modern diesels will do even better than that - 60+ mpg would be the norm for a near-new Merc, BMW or Audi oil-burner on the same trip There's one huge bonus to driving a diesel as the everyday hack - the performance of the Coupe feels epic when I get to drive it
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: spyke]
#1495099
21/06/2014 22:44
21/06/2014 22:44
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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I know they aren't so.bad when driven, I drive a modern (more modern than your 1.9) most weeks, but i also have a 20vt and a v12 jag in the same breath. I couldnt careless about a diesel, you cant beat a v12 jag - ever. Not for torque, power or smoothness, maybe on mpg though!
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: Nigel]
#1495156
22/06/2014 12:07
22/06/2014 12:07
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DanDan
Unregistered
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DanDan
Unregistered
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TBH, once you're driving a decent, modern diesel, it sounds just fine (in fact even in my leggy Alfa GT 1.9, you can't really hear the engine at motorway cruising speeds - it just thrums along at about 2000rpm)
Yes, its horribly tractor-like when you're on the outside of the car, especially in warm weather (no idea why - just seems to sound more clattery) Agreed. Even the 156 5 cylinder diesel is very loud at idle, but as soon as you're moving it's just smoothness and turbo whistle with a 5 pot rumble Certainly effortless. I still prefer the sound and feel of petrol of course, but I think both serve different purposes now due to the +20mpg difference. I'm not including small petrol engines here as they don't usually fall into the long distance/cruiser/GT car category. The best diesel I had was a V6 twin turbo Jaguar S type. Even on idle, it has the faint sound of a V6 petrol. When you started moving, you could barely hear it!
Last edited by DanDan; 22/06/2014 12:08.
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: spyke]
#1495206
22/06/2014 19:32
22/06/2014 19:32
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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The jag v12 is supposedly the smoothest engine ever designed and built, I can believe it too. You can sit a glass of water on top of a bank and it hardly ripples. Cant say ive ever experienced a diesel that delivers smooth power, ive also never heard one that doesnt sound like a bag of spanners on initial start up. The percussion of compression is unavoidable, its part of what they are. The cars can be quiet inside but from outside its a bit naff, which is why convertible diesels confuse me. The noise and diesel fumes in a drop top? Why?
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Re: Diesel remap?
[Re: spyke]
#1495292
23/06/2014 09:59
23/06/2014 09:59
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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I would assume they are very similar to their petrol cousins except the noise is different, the LM diesels are freakish when hooning round at 200 mph, the sound is "missing".
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