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16vt - performance info #1501107
02/08/2014 08:08
02/08/2014 08:08

J
jozef
Unregistered
jozef
Unregistered
J



hello guys,

i am from slovakia and i am new here, so i would like to apologize for my english and for this thread, BUT if i want to find something what i want or need, my english is not good enough to find right words.Really SORRY!
but i need help!!!

i have bought a red 16vt coupe for me with only 107k km on the clock, but the previous owner was an idiot. the coupe was in not very pleasant condition.
so i decided to buy another coupe, yellow one, for the parts, and i was lucky because the previous owner of the yellow coupe is a great guy and he has been taking care of the coupe in very good way, so now i have enough parts for fullfil my dream and OMP racing exhaust for example laugh. both coupe´s i have bought for just 700€ laugh.
The coupe was my dream for a long period of time, about 6 years i think, ofcourse as a little child tongue i loved the vtec hondas etc, but the coupe was always something more for me, i spend a lot of time on the youtube watching 20vt kicking a.s.s.e.s to other cars, and to be honest i always wanted to buy 20vt, but my money reserve is not big enough laugh

i want to go back to my thing.
i would like to build really good coupe, not just for horsepowers or show car, but for daily driven monster, with the power what the physics of the car, engine and tires construction can handle.
and of course, it have to look like that it can, and whenever i will want. everybody has to feel that power from inside and outside, thats the definition of something what i call the "ferrari for poor" ..its just my opinion, i am sorry if somebody is not agree with me.

i want to know a lot of things, and only you guys can help me with my dream. THANK YOU in advance!!!

Engine:
i start with engine, not in real.. in real i will start at brakes and suspension laugh
1,i read, that the stock internals can handle 320bhp is that true?
2, i want to do a low cost budget, so what option for the stock internals is the most common and save according to you guys, i read that the cranckshaft is good enough for 900+bhp, so i thing this is not going happen :Dbut what about conrods and pistons, i read that the stock conrods with some mods are good, because in stock they cant hande more than 7000rpm and i would like to go further than that. what about pistons, replace with some wossner or something like that or do some mods on them, or swap from another car ???
3, which intlet camshaft sould i pick ? 16v N/A, TIPO? TEMPRA, THEMA ? exhaust cam will be the 16VT inlet cam.
4, what about the cappa inlet manifold .. is there some hp gain compare to the stock 16vt manifold ? acoording to me YES, and a lot of extra features as its good looking and inectors,
5, fuel pressure regulator, which one ? how many bars ?
6, i read that the blow-off valve have to be setup on one car because of the time that its opened and i dont know what else .. could you recomend me some of them ?
7, which turbo is the best for the best power range and peak power, i thought about turbo-compounding but there is a lot of calculations.
8, is there something that the 16vt engines in other cars are differet ? i thing that 155q4 could make more power on stock engine, ist that true ? and why ?

THIS sould be everything for now, because this questins are bothering me for a long time and everytime i found just a peace of the truth i was looking for.

I AM SORRY TO EVERYBODY THAT I WROTE THIS ROMAN, BUT I HOPE THAT YOU CAN, AND WANT TO HELP ME. IT MEANS A LOT FOR ME. BECAUSE A SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN INTERNET, I AM WORKING A LOT SO I SACRIFICE MY SLEEPING, AND STILL ALMOST NOTHING.

PLEASE, DONT ERASE THIS THREAD, YOU CAN MOVE IT TO OTHER SECTION, BUT PLEASE DONT ERASE, I HAVE DONE A HELL OF A JOB ON IT laugh

THANK YOU AND BY
JOZEF
GREETINGS FROM SLOVAKIA

Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501124
02/08/2014 11:22
02/08/2014 11:22

B
Brickfoot
Unregistered
Brickfoot
Unregistered
B



MY smile opinion is:

1. Depends on your tune, how well the engine is maintained, what shape its in, has it been tuned before aso.. Rumor is 300-320 is the limit, torque, turbo, manifold, exhaust, fuel quality and ehat you use it for is probbably more of an issue. A perfectly tuned manifold a huge turbo and a straight through exhaust would be safe with more hp than stock manifold and smaller turbo because of backpreassure. exhaust temp, less boost and less midrange torque, but wouldnt be very driveable. You make your choised smile

2. Stock engin will take 7500rpm
A fully forged balanced engine will take more than you would ever need

3.. For 300-320 stock cams will do fine

4. Your tuner will tell you wich fuel preassure youll need, usually 3bar

5. Stock fiat lancia 3bar

6. I youse Forge RS recirc, most think noisy ones are cool, all known brands should be ok. Your tuner would help you adjust it.

7. Impossible to answer, you get what you pay for but stock frame hybrids are cheapest option, a td05 16g from lancer evo will spool from lower rpm than stock and push hard till 7500 while at the same time be good for 350bhp

8. I Think not

Again MY personal opinion.. Guess youll get a few more smile

Last edited by Brickfoot; 02/08/2014 11:57.
Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501146
02/08/2014 15:06
02/08/2014 15:06

J
jozef
Unregistered
jozef
Unregistered
J



Thank you very much.
The thing is that is has to be low cost budget so my setup should be :
-chip (higher rpms, 1,5 bar turbo pressure)
-intake manifold
-exhaust manifold
-cams
-omp exhaust
-fuel pressure regulator
-one side intercooler
Turbo will be last thing because of the money reserve laugh but if it will be possible, turbo will go in.
So i will have to find every little pony without touching on the engine a lot And with basic tuning methods

Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501158
02/08/2014 17:59
02/08/2014 17:59

B
Brickfoot
Unregistered
Brickfoot
Unregistered
B



Forget cams, intercooler, inntake and exhaust manifold
Rebuild yor turbo with bigger/better compressor wheel (super60)
Keep stock injectors get a chip, 3bar fpr and aim for +-280hp
You will not come anywhere near that on stock turbo and everything of the above mentioned will just be a waste of money..
If you want 300 plus hp youll need a bigger compressorwheel on the turbo (to4e 50) bigger injectors, bigger intercooler thats it!

On top of a decent exhaust and airfilter off course...

Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501219
02/08/2014 23:46
02/08/2014 23:46

B
Brickfoot
Unregistered
Brickfoot
Unregistered
B



Originally Posted By: jozef

-intake manifold. 300£
-exhaust manifold. 600£
-cams. 200-650£
-intercooler atleast. 300£ with piping
=1400£ Atleast! For bits you dont need
Turbo will be last thing because of the money reserve laugh
300-500 depending on spec... Wich you DO need smile.

Last edited by Brickfoot; 02/08/2014 23:51.
Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501226
03/08/2014 00:36
03/08/2014 00:36

J
jozef
Unregistered
jozef
Unregistered
J



intake manifold - if i will find one, want to buy it for 150-200€, or if i will want it a lot, than DIY
exhaust manifold - DIY
cams - used and only in good condition, now i can bought fron 16v coupe for 50€
intercooler and piping - i need just find one .. from an iveco or something like that, just a radiator, mounting DIY, just need bigger intercooler with almost same thickness and the rest of the work like welding i will do by myself

i want to use used parts in good condition, its not necessary to buy it brand new, well, not everything ofcourse
good junky yard will work good enough for a low cost budget project, i have to thing economically laugh

Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501245
03/08/2014 10:02
03/08/2014 10:02

B
Brickfoot
Unregistered
Brickfoot
Unregistered
B



Yes, but for the last time, you dont need to change those items. AND the stock ones are WAY better than some crap you pick up at the junkyard. To make intakes and exhaust manifolds is a science and youll most certainly end up with something that is sub standard quality.
Keep it simple...

Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501270
03/08/2014 12:28
03/08/2014 12:28

J
jozef
Unregistered
jozef
Unregistered
J



ofcourse, i have some opportunities, tools, machines and skills to maintain some of these things so if i will not find parts which i will want or need i can make them thats all.. and because i want making horsepowers just on the plug´n´play parts with no big intervention on the engine inside.. at the moment i just want to make hp´s on the outside of the engine, and not to spend all my money, its a lots of parts on 16vt around here, i believe that i can do it smile

so if you have some experiences with these parts, please give me an advice

intake manifold
kappa turbo/V.I.S
alfa 155 q4
thema turbo/V.I.S
croma turbo
delta integrale
i think that all of them should be almost the same,
i read about this manifold that on the stock engine its almost no hp gain but with some mods it should make +5hp (?)

cams replacement gain +15hp/+20nm when its done well
exhaust manifold +10hp and all advantages as throttle response and better flow - better turbo spooling
screamer pipe should bring some horses to the fence
intercooler +10hp (maybe more)if its all done well ..
higher RPMs theres a lot of horses hiding beyond the redline laugh
im playing with an idea of turbo compounding because i have some small turbos around in my garage so its possibly the chance to make this setup but theres a lot of calculations but if i will have time to do some math laugh i will do it
dont need to spend a lot of money on turbo from lance when i can upgrade the stock one or help it a little, will see


so simple calculating .. at least could bring more than 50hp and i will want to keep an eye on everything will be done well, and only with chip i can make more than 250hp on stock engine, i have a very skilled chip tuner with more than 10yrs of experiences by chipping the italian cars, i have alfa romeo 156 2,4 jtd (103kw in stock) chipped on 180hp/400nm by himself and not even one complain about his work, its done great and a lot of fun with this car after his intervention.. so i have no doubts about this part of tuning my car actualy im pretty confident about it

i am pretty sure that i can make more than 300hp with stock parts but i want do my job the best i can, i want to look for the horsepowers all around the engine at first, its not necessary to do it inside, that will be another project cause i have one more engine in my garage, so next time laugh

Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501276
03/08/2014 13:53
03/08/2014 13:53
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,829
kidderminster
nick_d Offline
My life on the forum
nick_d  Offline
My life on the forum

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,829
kidderminster
banghead

laugh



368bhp @ 1.5 bar
Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501277
03/08/2014 14:00
03/08/2014 14:00

J
jozef
Unregistered
jozef
Unregistered
J



??

Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501284
03/08/2014 14:47
03/08/2014 14:47

J
jozef
Unregistered
jozef
Unregistered
J



??

Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501291
03/08/2014 15:57
03/08/2014 15:57
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,829
kidderminster
nick_d Offline
My life on the forum
nick_d  Offline
My life on the forum

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,829
kidderminster
Bigger downpipe AND turbo elbow

Sierra cosworth T3 garrett turbo ( straight fit apart from larger water banjo bolt)

FRONT mount intercooler ( possibly mitsubishi evo)

3 bar map sensor

Flea OR "Kj" Re map (1.4 bar ish)

DONE!!

If you can do it yourself PORT inlet and stock exhaust manifold, if not it's not absolutely necessary!!

Should see minimum of 270 bhp on healthy engine!


..... BRAKES laugh

Last edited by nick_d; 03/08/2014 16:40.


368bhp @ 1.5 bar
Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501299
03/08/2014 17:00
03/08/2014 17:00

B
Brickfoot
Unregistered
Brickfoot
Unregistered
B



^^ what he said!!!

Although for 270-280 bhp on the extreme cheap I believe stock IC is usable and you dont need 3bar map for 1,4 bar boost
Things does not always add up, changing 10 things that "should" make 10hp does not give you 100hp on a stock turbo! The turbo limits your power!!!

Oh yeah! You ned new spark plugs as well

READ THE STICKYPOST: 16VT TUNING WORKSHOP

Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501337
03/08/2014 22:09
03/08/2014 22:09

J
jozef
Unregistered
jozef
Unregistered
J



yes i know .. im just thinking big, because i wanted to know things like this and i always find just a piece, not everything.. denso iridium is ok ?
i want chip from my fella because i know him and i know that he know what he is doing and it will make a great job on it.

and i cant agree with your opinion that changing 10 things that sould make 10hp does not give me 100hp on stock turbo ..
the reason is (just as example) i cn make 300hp with 1,5 bar or i can make 300hp on 1 bar .. i dont want to make horsepowers with just chip, higher turbo pressure and so on,
i know that if you will make upgrades on the exhaust, intake, head, cooler air, better injectors, better air flow.. you just help to the engine with "breathing" and if you can rev your engine more than stock, i think on the stock engine it will gain more than 30hp with good map.. and if not, i believe that im not far away from the truth..
i just want to make a good setup, not just chip, intercooler and probably turbo.. there is hidden horses all around the engine.. and it does not have to be expensive smile

Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501354
04/08/2014 07:07
04/08/2014 07:07

B
burnbike
Unregistered
burnbike
Unregistered
B



that's true but you are thinking with a N/A point of view
the things you want to do give almost nothing hp
and lots of works, also if you get the stuff for pennies
you will spend hours "under the car" than driving alone
or with your girlfriend laugh

thereby with just a turbo,a remap amd the ancillaries
to optimize the new setup ,with few hours of work
you will have a fast coupè ON THE ROAD and not in the garage

like above suggested i would spend time in dismantling
and servicing brake front and rear before
thinking about tuning

last... it's not forbidden doing cams ,manifold.. in a second time
maybe after riding the coupè for some months
with more experience to get what you really want and needs wink

Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501357
04/08/2014 07:58
04/08/2014 07:58

J
jozef
Unregistered
jozef
Unregistered
J



Thanks smile and brakes is already in my garage, everything is ready to swap except brembo calipers. I will start with stock brake discs and when i buy the calipers i will need brake pads, what you can recomend? After i would like to buy the EBC grooved discs

Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501407
04/08/2014 16:32
04/08/2014 16:32

J
jozef
Unregistered
jozef
Unregistered
J



And what about the rear brakes, i read that you have problem with MOT because of the rear brakes, what is the best setup for make them better ? Or should i rather buy some kit ?

Re: 16vt - performance info [Re: ] #1501519
05/08/2014 12:41
05/08/2014 12:41

B
burnbike
Unregistered
burnbike
Unregistered
B



i refurb original 16vt brakes and the stopping power
is almost the same as brembo calipers
don't expect huge performance
i tried sparco r61 and i will buy track omp pads


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