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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: adder58] #1530156
17/03/2015 10:47
17/03/2015 10:47
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It is not just the power unit that is better. The rest of the car is also very good.

The problem is that the Renault power unit seems way off the pace. Previously RB used to complain that it was so but I'm not actually that convinced it was so bad when it was winning most races with ease.

RB's problem is that neither Mercedes nor Ferrari will be keen to give them a better engine.

Wrt historically-banned ideas, these were mainly made on the grounds of ideas that took advantage of loopholes in the rules. Teams that considered taking advantage of a loophole as unethical did not do it (or were they not clever enough?). Those that did bend the rules get an advantage that the regulations wanted to exclude (but did a poor job of excluding it). In these cases the rules should be changed otherwise everybody has to re-engineer their cars at added cost because of badly written rules.


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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: adder58] #1530157
17/03/2015 11:02
17/03/2015 11:02

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Merc, as far as I understand it, basically wrote off their 2013 season from the off in order to develop the 2014 cars.

Seems it paid off and they had a years jump on most of the other teams. They paid their dues and as someone said, They'll have a few years at the top, like Ferrari, Williams, RB, Renault, Benetton and McLaren before them and then someone else will rise to the top. Repeat to fade...

Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: neil_r] #1530159
17/03/2015 11:04
17/03/2015 11:04
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Power unit superiority is a far bigger advantage than having a Brawn diffuser, a blown diffuser an F duct or even a Newey.

The 3 loophole designs above were all copied by opposing teams during the season if money allowed. With the engine homologation and the token system, Renault, Ferrari and Honda are basically stuck with what they have.

Merc can develop their engines at the same speed as the other 3. Despite what was said above I can't see the other 3 power unit suppliers catching up anytime soon.

F1 is dying, it has been for 3 or 4 years. Mercedes dominance is just another nail in the F1 coffin.



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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: adder58] #1530160
17/03/2015 11:04
17/03/2015 11:04
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Agreed. They don't appear to have bent any rules, just done a better job. It is down to the others to catch up.


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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: adder58] #1530161
17/03/2015 11:08
17/03/2015 11:08
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Exactly, Neil; where there has been rule-bending that other (less clever or unscrupulous) teams have failed to exploit, the FIA has decided whether or not to close loopholes that have gone against the spirit or letter of the regulations (FRIC suspension last season, for example).
Mercedes hasn't exploited any loopholes, it has simply done a better job with its car and power unit.
Under the current regulations, Red Bull can no longer use superior (some would say borderline illegal) aerodynamic skills to compensate for a lack of power.
As has been said, to be whinging after one race doesn't speak of confidence in Renault's abilities to turn matters around.

If the rumours are to be believed, Renault are going to buy a team and return as a constructor, so perhaps that will help Red Bull out!

Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1530165
17/03/2015 11:30
17/03/2015 11:30
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Agreed, Merc have done a far better job than Renault and Ferrari (not sure what the Honda power unit will be like when they run it at full power) in the development stage. They will continue to develop at the same speed, or faster, than the other manufacturers so the gap won't close in the short term.

I'm not having a go at Mercedes I just feel the current homologation rules make it much more difficult to play catch up.

Renault buying a team like Sauber or more likely Toro Rosso would be interesting. Another rumour doing the rounds is Audi considering entering F1 when Ecclestone is gone....



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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: bezzer] #1530166
17/03/2015 11:36
17/03/2015 11:36
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Originally Posted By: bezzer
...when Ecclestone is gone....


This being the pre-requisite for Audi - or any VW Group manufacturer - to become involved in F1.

Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: bezzer] #1530167
17/03/2015 11:37
17/03/2015 11:37
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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1530168
17/03/2015 11:38
17/03/2015 11:38
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Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
Originally Posted By: bezzer
...when Ecclestone is gone....


This being the pre-requisite for Audi - or any VW Group manufacturer - to become involved in F1.


Apparently....



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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: adder58] #1530170
17/03/2015 11:40
17/03/2015 11:40
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Interesting times when GvdG will be paid €15m for not paying Sauber €xm to be allowed to drive their car.

Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: bezzer] #1530171
17/03/2015 11:42
17/03/2015 11:42
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Originally Posted By: bezzer
Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
Originally Posted By: bezzer
...when Ecclestone is gone....


This being the pre-requisite for Audi - or any VW Group manufacturer - to become involved in F1.


Apparently....


Well, indeed. But I've read it from several well-placed F1/motor industry journalists.

Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1530173
17/03/2015 11:48
17/03/2015 11:48
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Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
Interesting times when GvdG will be paid €15m for not paying Sauber €xm to be allowed to drive their car.


Manor have confirmed Stevens for the season but Mehri has only been confirmed for the 'opening rounds' of the season. Could GvdG and his money turn up at Manor?



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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: adder58] #1530175
17/03/2015 12:04
17/03/2015 12:04
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Good point. Why doesn't GvdG just use Sauber's money to pay Manor's fine to Bernie?!

Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1530178
17/03/2015 12:17
17/03/2015 12:17
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Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
Good point. Why doesn't GvdG just use Sauber's money to pay Manor's fine to Bernie?!


Shoot a team while it's on his knees. Well done Bernie, way to go.



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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: adder58] #1530181
17/03/2015 12:26
17/03/2015 12:26
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But surely Bernie must have been pulling some strings to even get manor entered, given the contract with the circuits stipulate a 20 car grid. Without them even making the effort he would have been down to 18.




Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: oxfordSteve] #1530183
17/03/2015 12:33
17/03/2015 12:33
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Originally Posted By: oxfordSteve
But surely Bernie must have been pulling some strings to even get manor entered, given the contract with the circuits stipulate a 20 car grid. Without them even making the effort he would have been down to 18.


Yes Bernie did help Manor (and the other smaller teams with an up front payment of $10m.) I think in the case of Manor it was on the understanding they'd compete in Melbourne. As Adam Cooper reported, one observer phrased it thus: “They bullshitted Bernie, and you don’t bullshit Bernie…”



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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: bezzer] #1530187
17/03/2015 12:49
17/03/2015 12:49
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Originally Posted By: bezzer
I'm not having a go at Mercedes I just feel the current homologation rules make it much more difficult to play catch up.


The other Merc-powered teams are not at Merc's level. They must have done stuff right on the non-engine side.

Top teams spend to much so the engine rules are a heavy-handed way of trying to reduce costs but it also seals in an advantage.

Letting all but the best develop is also unsporting. There is no easy solution. New rules every few years shuffles the pack but there will always be winners.

Having just one engine manufacturer is not attractive to most involved.

A real spending cap with the freedom to spend that how you like would be ideal but it does not seem to interest the richer teams.

What's with Manor/Marussia? They did not have the money to pay for the engines so they did not get the software required to run them?


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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: neil_r] #1530188
17/03/2015 13:08
17/03/2015 13:08
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I agree Neil, Mercedes have an excellent aero package. Costa may not be on the same level as Newey or Prodromro but he's no mug. Plus I think it's a big advantage being a manufacturer of the whole lot - power unit, gearbox, chassis etc.

One engine manufacturer in F1 would be so wrong. What next, one chassis, one drivetrain etc.

Manor are running the 2014 Ferrari power unit and apparently turned up in Melbourne without any software/mapping for them. I don't think they had any intention of running there but as they made the cars available to the scrutineers, it was deemed they were ready to race. Hence Bernie being so p!ssed with them.



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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: adder58] #1530189
17/03/2015 13:16
17/03/2015 13:16
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Manor just played the game; whether or not they intended to compete, they HAD to attend or forfeit the $50m prize money owing from last year. Without that, I doubt they would make it anywhere - or be able to pay Ferrari for the engines (for either last year or this). F1 needs a bigger grid, so for Bernie to get all mardy-arsed because Manor "bullshitted" him after he helped them get on the plane to Melbourne is - in itself - bo11ocks of the highest order.

Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: adder58] #1530191
17/03/2015 13:25
17/03/2015 13:25
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Bernie likes to be heard saying something and being viewed as being all powerful. Long-term, it can't be in his interest to have an ever-diminishing field and contractually it is clearly a short-term problem. He should stop "blaming" others and use his "power" constructively to help create an F1 for the 21st century. As you say Jim, this is yet another case of comfy laurels.


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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1530192
17/03/2015 13:28
17/03/2015 13:28
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What's bollocks Jim?



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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: bezzer] #1530194
17/03/2015 13:38
17/03/2015 13:38
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Originally Posted By: bezzer
What's bollocks Jim?


Bernie threatening to fine Manor for not running because the team supposedly "bullshitted" him.

He knows how it works and must have seen it coming. If not, he really is senile.

Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1530195
17/03/2015 13:40
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Apparently the 'fine' will be Manor footing the bill for the freight from the UK to Australia.



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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: adder58] #1530196
17/03/2015 13:41
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Turning up made the difference between surviving or going under. Bernie should just be happy that Manor should make it to the grid soon and not simply disappear. It would not be a going concern without the 50M that they are entitled to.


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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: neil_r] #1530199
17/03/2015 14:06
17/03/2015 14:06
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Originally Posted By: neil_r
Turning up made the difference between surviving or going under. Bernie should just be happy that Manor should make it to the grid soon and not simply disappear. It would not be a going concern without the 50M that they are entitled to.


This.

Small-minded, short-sighted and detrimental to F1's interests. Classic Bernie.

Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1530200
17/03/2015 14:18
17/03/2015 14:18
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Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
Originally Posted By: neil_r
Turning up made the difference between surviving or going under. Bernie should just be happy that Manor should make it to the grid soon and not simply disappear. It would not be a going concern without the 50M that they are entitled to.


This.

Small-minded, short-sighted and detrimental to F1's interests. Classic Bernie.


Bernie/CVC have been screwing F1 ever since they acquired the rights in 2006.



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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: adder58] #1530201
17/03/2015 14:20
17/03/2015 14:20
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Mercilessly!

Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1530248
17/03/2015 19:38
17/03/2015 19:38
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The whole point of F1 is competition.

Competition between car manufacturers to see who can build the best car within the regulations and competition between Drivers to see who can best exploit their given package.

Horner has had four years of rewarding his backers with masses of publicity and championship success. It must be tough having to tell them he's dropped the ball... again.

All this bleating that others are doing better, and threatening to leave F1 is so childish a total toys out of the pram moment. Maybe this year Ricciardo will walk out on them too!


Gone Audi mad!
Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: adder58] #1530512
19/03/2015 18:26
19/03/2015 18:26
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So, after their slightly edgy exchange in the press conference after Sunday's race, Rosberg has officially invited Vettel to the Mercedes post-race debrief after the Malaysian race, reminding him to "bring his notebook".

I think it's a pretty shrewd psychological move, but will Toto and Niki be impressed...?!

Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1530531
19/03/2015 22:30
19/03/2015 22:30
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Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
So, after their slightly edgy exchange in the press conference after Sunday's race, Rosberg has officially invited Vettel to the Mercedes post-race debrief after the Malaysian race, reminding him to "bring his notebook".

I think it's a pretty shrewd psychological move, but will Toto and Niki be impressed...?!


Pretty humiliating for the Red Cars though wink

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