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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015
[Re: adder58]
#1530156
17/03/2015 10:47
17/03/2015 10:47
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869 Germany
neil_r
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
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It is not just the power unit that is better. The rest of the car is also very good.
The problem is that the Renault power unit seems way off the pace. Previously RB used to complain that it was so but I'm not actually that convinced it was so bad when it was winning most races with ease.
RB's problem is that neither Mercedes nor Ferrari will be keen to give them a better engine.
Wrt historically-banned ideas, these were mainly made on the grounds of ideas that took advantage of loopholes in the rules. Teams that considered taking advantage of a loophole as unethical did not do it (or were they not clever enough?). Those that did bend the rules get an advantage that the regulations wanted to exclude (but did a poor job of excluding it). In these cases the rules should be changed otherwise everybody has to re-engineer their cars at added cost because of badly written rules.
1997 20V 2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR 2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD 2018 Mazda2 GT
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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015
[Re: adder58]
#1530157
17/03/2015 11:02
17/03/2015 11:02
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TbirdX
Unregistered
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TbirdX
Unregistered
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Merc, as far as I understand it, basically wrote off their 2013 season from the off in order to develop the 2014 cars.
Seems it paid off and they had a years jump on most of the other teams. They paid their dues and as someone said, They'll have a few years at the top, like Ferrari, Williams, RB, Renault, Benetton and McLaren before them and then someone else will rise to the top. Repeat to fade...
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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015
[Re: adder58]
#1530160
17/03/2015 11:04
17/03/2015 11:04
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869 Germany
neil_r
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Enjoying the ride
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Germany
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Agreed. They don't appear to have bent any rules, just done a better job. It is down to the others to catch up.
1997 20V 2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR 2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD 2018 Mazda2 GT
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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015
[Re: adder58]
#1530161
17/03/2015 11:08
17/03/2015 11:08
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
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Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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Exactly, Neil; where there has been rule-bending that other (less clever or unscrupulous) teams have failed to exploit, the FIA has decided whether or not to close loopholes that have gone against the spirit or letter of the regulations (FRIC suspension last season, for example). Mercedes hasn't exploited any loopholes, it has simply done a better job with its car and power unit. Under the current regulations, Red Bull can no longer use superior (some would say borderline illegal) aerodynamic skills to compensate for a lack of power. As has been said, to be whinging after one race doesn't speak of confidence in Renault's abilities to turn matters around.
If the rumours are to be believed, Renault are going to buy a team and return as a constructor, so perhaps that will help Red Bull out!
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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015
[Re: bezzer]
#1530171
17/03/2015 11:42
17/03/2015 11:42
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
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Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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...when Ecclestone is gone.... This being the pre-requisite for Audi - or any VW Group manufacturer - to become involved in F1. Apparently.... Well, indeed. But I've read it from several well-placed F1/motor industry journalists.
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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1530173
17/03/2015 11:48
17/03/2015 11:48
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895 2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
bezzer
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895
2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
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Interesting times when GvdG will be paid €15m for not paying Sauber €xm to be allowed to drive their car. Manor have confirmed Stevens for the season but Mehri has only been confirmed for the 'opening rounds' of the season. Could GvdG and his money turn up at Manor?
......My Boy...... (PB #7)
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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1530178
17/03/2015 12:17
17/03/2015 12:17
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895 2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
bezzer
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895
2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
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Good point. Why doesn't GvdG just use Sauber's money to pay Manor's fine to Bernie?! Shoot a team while it's on his knees. Well done Bernie, way to go.
......My Boy...... (PB #7)
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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015
[Re: oxfordSteve]
#1530183
17/03/2015 12:33
17/03/2015 12:33
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895 2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
bezzer
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895
2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
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But surely Bernie must have been pulling some strings to even get manor entered, given the contract with the circuits stipulate a 20 car grid. Without them even making the effort he would have been down to 18. Yes Bernie did help Manor (and the other smaller teams with an up front payment of $10m.) I think in the case of Manor it was on the understanding they'd compete in Melbourne. As Adam Cooper reported, one observer phrased it thus: “They bullshitted Bernie, and you don’t bullshit Bernie…”
......My Boy...... (PB #7)
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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015
[Re: bezzer]
#1530187
17/03/2015 12:49
17/03/2015 12:49
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869 Germany
neil_r
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
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Germany
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I'm not having a go at Mercedes I just feel the current homologation rules make it much more difficult to play catch up. The other Merc-powered teams are not at Merc's level. They must have done stuff right on the non-engine side. Top teams spend to much so the engine rules are a heavy-handed way of trying to reduce costs but it also seals in an advantage. Letting all but the best develop is also unsporting. There is no easy solution. New rules every few years shuffles the pack but there will always be winners. Having just one engine manufacturer is not attractive to most involved. A real spending cap with the freedom to spend that how you like would be ideal but it does not seem to interest the richer teams. What's with Manor/Marussia? They did not have the money to pay for the engines so they did not get the software required to run them?
1997 20V 2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR 2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD 2018 Mazda2 GT
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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015
[Re: adder58]
#1530191
17/03/2015 13:25
17/03/2015 13:25
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869 Germany
neil_r
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Enjoying the ride
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Germany
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Bernie likes to be heard saying something and being viewed as being all powerful. Long-term, it can't be in his interest to have an ever-diminishing field and contractually it is clearly a short-term problem. He should stop "blaming" others and use his "power" constructively to help create an F1 for the 21st century. As you say Jim, this is yet another case of comfy laurels.
1997 20V 2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR 2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD 2018 Mazda2 GT
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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015
[Re: bezzer]
#1530194
17/03/2015 13:38
17/03/2015 13:38
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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Bernie threatening to fine Manor for not running because the team supposedly "bullshitted" him. He knows how it works and must have seen it coming. If not, he really is senile.
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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015
[Re: adder58]
#1530196
17/03/2015 13:41
17/03/2015 13:41
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869 Germany
neil_r
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
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Turning up made the difference between surviving or going under. Bernie should just be happy that Manor should make it to the grid soon and not simply disappear. It would not be a going concern without the 50M that they are entitled to.
1997 20V 2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR 2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD 2018 Mazda2 GT
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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015
[Re: neil_r]
#1530199
17/03/2015 14:06
17/03/2015 14:06
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
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Forum veteran
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Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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Turning up made the difference between surviving or going under. Bernie should just be happy that Manor should make it to the grid soon and not simply disappear. It would not be a going concern without the 50M that they are entitled to. This. Small-minded, short-sighted and detrimental to F1's interests. Classic Bernie.
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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1530200
17/03/2015 14:18
17/03/2015 14:18
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895 2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
bezzer
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895
2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
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Turning up made the difference between surviving or going under. Bernie should just be happy that Manor should make it to the grid soon and not simply disappear. It would not be a going concern without the 50M that they are entitled to. This. Small-minded, short-sighted and detrimental to F1's interests. Classic Bernie. Bernie/CVC have been screwing F1 ever since they acquired the rights in 2006.
......My Boy...... (PB #7)
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Re: Official Australian F1 Grand Prix 2015
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1530248
17/03/2015 19:38
17/03/2015 19:38
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,064 South Cambs
Barmybob
Hon Club Member: 003
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Hon Club Member: 003
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,064
South Cambs
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The whole point of F1 is competition.
Competition between car manufacturers to see who can build the best car within the regulations and competition between Drivers to see who can best exploit their given package.
Horner has had four years of rewarding his backers with masses of publicity and championship success. It must be tough having to tell them he's dropped the ball... again.
All this bleating that others are doing better, and threatening to leave F1 is so childish a total toys out of the pram moment. Maybe this year Ricciardo will walk out on them too!
Gone Audi mad!
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