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Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! #1534137
16/04/2015 20:42
16/04/2015 20:42
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,462
Kent
Submariner Offline OP
My job on the forum
Submariner  Offline OP
My job on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,462
Kent
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32332210

Well I never and the stick we get for owning a Fiat.

I think Ford coming so high up is a real achievement

Last edited by Submariner; 16/04/2015 21:05.
Re: Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! [Re: Submariner] #1534157
16/04/2015 22:00
16/04/2015 22:00

G
glenn1960
Unregistered
glenn1960
Unregistered
G



so Peugeot must have improved then, probably because they are no longer built in Cov !!

Re: Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! [Re: Submariner] #1534193
17/04/2015 08:10
17/04/2015 08:10
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
neil_r Offline
Enjoying the ride
neil_r  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
Have to remember that the rankings are a mixture of reliability and cost to repair the fault. Expensive to repair cars will naturally sink to the bottom even with relatively simple faults because the parts and labour prices are so high for premium brands.


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! [Re: Submariner] #1534214
17/04/2015 12:39
17/04/2015 12:39
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,609
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped Offline
Club member 1924
Gripped  Offline
Club member 1924
Forum is my job

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,609
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Having a new Pug 208, I confirm that they still have problems.

It's been back the the main dealer 4 times now for faults with the suspension. Apparently the rattling from the top mounts and shocks is "normal" for this car.

I am also not convinced by the performance of Honda either.

Re: Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! [Re: Submariner] #1534215
17/04/2015 13:13
17/04/2015 13:13
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
J
Jim_Clennell Offline
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Jim_Clennell  Offline
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J

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
I remember when Skoda came top (or close to it) in the JD Power index a few years back - when Skoda was still a "joke" brand. Part of the reason for their success was that they exceeded the expectations of their owners, whereas luxury brands that let their owners down were perceived as worse than they were objectively.

This survey seems more factually based, but there may be some component of that involved. As others have mentioned, the cost of repairing prestige brands is usually significantly higher than mass-market.

Re: Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! [Re: Submariner] #1534427
19/04/2015 13:27
19/04/2015 13:27
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706
Gone
J
Jimbo Offline
Je suis un Coupé
Jimbo  Offline
Je suis un Coupé
J

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706
Gone
Well I had considered a Porsche at one stage so after reading that report im glad I didn't and went for the Audi instead.

Thats what warranties are for though right?

Right?

Oh shit

Re: Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! [Re: Jimbo] #1534914
22/04/2015 07:26
22/04/2015 07:26
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,462
Kent
Submariner Offline OP
My job on the forum
Submariner  Offline OP
My job on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,462
Kent
Originally Posted By: Jimbo
Well I had considered a Porsche at one stage so after reading that report im glad I didn't and went for the Audi instead.

Thats what warranties are for though right?

Right?

Oh shit


laugh

Re: Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! [Re: Submariner] #1534929
22/04/2015 09:53
22/04/2015 09:53
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,275
West Berks
skinflint Offline
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,275
West Berks
Is all this reliability guff relevant any more?

Can anyone name a car you can buy today that truly breaks down on a regular basis?

Re: Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! [Re: Submariner] #1534932
22/04/2015 09:58
22/04/2015 09:58
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
neil_r Offline
Enjoying the ride
neil_r  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
Maybe they don't leave you stranded very often, but "modern faults" seem to be hard to find and painfully expensive to fix, so cars that typically throw up less faults are still important for most car owners.


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! [Re: Submariner] #1534935
22/04/2015 10:18
22/04/2015 10:18
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,275
West Berks
skinflint Offline
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,275
West Berks
Fair point - I've seen people on forums complaining of these recurring intermittent faults, but I don't personally know anyone who's having this kind of trouble, and a lot of it seems to relate to a lack of competence at the dealer.

Some of the numbers behind the survey are interesting. Looking at the Alfa 156 - it is unreliable on a relative scale but in the opinion of the owners (see lower down) it is reliable.

Re: Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! [Re: Submariner] #1534940
22/04/2015 10:59
22/04/2015 10:59
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,520
Berlin
barnacle Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle  Offline
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Forum Demigod

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,520
Berlin
The problem I suspect with most modern cars is down to the electronics. I design stuff to work in *horrible* conditions - much worse than a car - and it's *hard* to do properly. In particular, managing heat and induced noise can be tricky, and connectors and wiring can be an issue.

When you take the number of sensors and multiple digital control messages running across canbus, and the fact that different parts of the system will have been written by different teams with differing levels of expertise... it's a recipe for a potential disaster. We're in a situation where (e.g. - I don't know if this has actually happened!) a live update to a suspension setting can be interfered with by someone changing the channel on the radio, or an indicator bulb announcing that it has died. They *shouldn't* interfere, but it's impossible to test every combination of possibilities.

The actual mechanical parts of an engine, suspension, or gearbox are old and mature tech. The designers understand them thoroughly, and while they will design down to a cost it's unusual for an engine to go bang, without some contributing factor like 6,000rpm and no oil.

But fault-finding on a canbus? Sometimes even the messages from the fault-finding tool can change the timing of other messages so that the fault disappears. Everything needs to self monitor and report, and you need an expert to identify issues. If you just have a kid from spanner college, you can only identify a faulty unit, and lo and behold, that costs a fortune to fix.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! [Re: Submariner] #1534943
22/04/2015 11:30
22/04/2015 11:30
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,275
West Berks
skinflint Offline
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,275
West Berks
That's what could go wrong - but does it?

Re: Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! [Re: Submariner] #1534944
22/04/2015 11:38
22/04/2015 11:38
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,520
Berlin
barnacle Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle  Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,520
Berlin
Most of the time, no. But when it does, that tends to be what goes wrong. We don't get overheating engines; they just stop. And finding out why, and making them go again, can be expensive.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! [Re: Submariner] #1534947
22/04/2015 11:57
22/04/2015 11:57
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
J
Jim_Clennell Offline
Forum veteran
Jim_Clennell  Offline
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J

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
It's also worth mentioning that everything nowadays is instantly in the spotlight. If you have problems with your new car, you will be sharing the pain on Twitter and other social media, turning an unlucky, minor, irritating molehill into something of a virtual mountain.

Re: Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! [Re: Submariner] #1534948
22/04/2015 12:26
22/04/2015 12:26
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
neil_r Offline
Enjoying the ride
neil_r  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
But on the other hand Jim, there are now kind and helpful, knowledgeable people out there who often turn my potential financial mountain back into a molehill smile


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1535075
23/04/2015 09:47
23/04/2015 09:47
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,462
Kent
Submariner Offline OP
My job on the forum
Submariner  Offline OP
My job on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,462
Kent
Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
It's also worth mentioning that everything nowadays is instantly in the spotlight. If you have problems with your new car, you will be sharing the pain on Twitter and other social media, turning an unlucky, minor, irritating molehill into something of a virtual mountain.


Indeed Jim, have you not done this yourself with regards to your mini clubman?

It's accountability and there is nowt wrong with that whether it is as a consumer or campaigning for justice and civil rights the internet has helped champion the common man/woman. Sure there are pitfalls and disinformation but on the whole the 'collective' voice has had a huge impact for the better, hence why the corporations, governments and the 'establishment' around the world are desperate to control or censor it.

Last edited by Submariner; 23/04/2015 09:51.
Re: Some of the most unreliable cars......are German! [Re: Submariner] #1535078
23/04/2015 09:53
23/04/2015 09:53
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
J
Jim_Clennell Offline
Forum veteran
Jim_Clennell  Offline
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J

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
Absolutely, Submariner, and I'd do the same with any car I even think about buying - it is the way of the world nowadays and self-help forums are powerful tools. As well as places to spend way too much time in my case...


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