It'll be interesting to see what residuals do. The 4C was re-selling above list but Alfa are already doing £7k "dealer contribution" and incredibly cheap finance on those.
They're also going toe-to-toe with the M3 or M4 and the C63 or C63S - you have to be reasonably brave to buy the Alfa...
I wish they'd bring the 276bhp manual RWD to the uk - I'd consider that.
I thought the same. One day perhaps? I wonder if it's just the map on the 197bhp version and so could be brought up to its full potential for a few hundred quid...
The reviews I've seen so far seem to like them too, and on paper they look pretty rapid
I've pulled all the spec of the websites (everything except final drive ratio and frontal area which I've estimated instead) and run it through the calculator. Either it won't actually make the quoted power or it will absolutely blitz an M3/M4 AND the AMG...
I don't think you'd have to be brave to buy the Alfa- who wants the Merc of the BMW???
Those things are landfill on wheels!
The quadrifoglio is the most interesting car to come out of Italy in a LONG time in my opinion.
I was actually looking at purchase options on it the other night!!!??
Have you seen the EVO Henry Catchpole video of it??
With the greatest respect, and with experience of 17 Alfas under my belt, the landfill has far more Alfa stuff in it than Merc, car-for-car. I hope that this Giulia is the best thing Alfa have done since that last Giulia (which is what I race) but my experience of recent Alfas tells me I'll wait. The MiTo is horrible and the 4C was a massive missed opportunity. The Alfa dealer network is nowhere near ready to support a 500bhp car. As for performance figures relative to the M3/M4 or AMGs, that's just pub willy waving stuff - utterly meaningless in the real world. And, unless the Pope has started hiring sex workers, I'm certain that the Merc at least will be better built and better thought-out for the real world. And watching reports of the Merc V8, it has potential for much much more power should the willy wavers deem it necessary.
I shall defer to your experience, MeanRedSpider- that made me laugh.
I have not, indeed, owned 17 Alfas: so you are well versed indeed to know. I have only owned one- and in fact: I toyed with the MITO and got no further than the test drive.
Yes- I'm talking with my heart, rather than my head, of course.
Even if it was half-rubbish, I'd still be very happy to own one. I aspire to it, in fact. Nothing else in that performance bracket appeals to me at all- but then: I'm an Italian car guy, through and through, and logic doesn't always spell out 'sense'. If you see what I mean.
Interesting observation on the dealers - though...
Yup - heart is always good when the experience is good which, for most of my Alfas, it was. The MiTo was a piece of rubbish though in nearly every possible way and the 4C was really disappointing - I could readily have bought one but it would have frustrated me every time I drove it.
As for dealers, it took them (with Fiat Chrysler UK support) 2 months to diagnose a fault on my 500 Dualogic gearbox and refused to give any support on the costs. What chance that they could fix something more sophisticated than a Fiat 500?
I REALLY hope the Giulia is a success - but I want to see what we actually get before I'd take the leap.
I have owned a few Alfas, most of the range in fact since the late 80s or early 90s, but have barely made it into the nawties, newst being my 54 plate GT V6.
Flawed, troubled, sometimes difficult, and luckily I do all my own spannering to deal with that.
My only detailed experience of BMW was a recent rental 5 series M badged diesel auto, which I was unfortunate to have as an insurance rental when my wife's Freelander got trashed.
It was well engineered, pleasant to drive, and the most hideous, ugly, nastiest place to sit I have every had the pleasure of using. Even my first car, a K plate (at the other end of the plate) Hillman Hunter 1725 twin stromberg estate, had a more scintillating character than this BMW thing.
My GT, the GTVs, my 155 Q4, and the 75 are quirky, flawed, and troublesome to a T, but they exude the type of character and charm I love in a car.
I reckon the Giulia might be flawed, but it looks like it will ooze the same charm and character.
In 5 years time, that will make it worthwhile to me.
The Giulietta has been pretty good so far. Some niggles though:
Failed external temp sensor (was telling us it was 40 degrees when it was 7 ) Cracked fog lamp surround Broken clip on an interior storage lid Warped disks (can happen on any car)
The dealers have been pretty good, and have fixed all under warranty.
It has other flaws, in that there is nowhere for your clutch foot to rest on, and the speedo is obscured by the steering wheel. But, you do forgive it these issues due to the way it looks and drives. And the driving position is very good.
I've been through most of the Alfa range from 60's onwards up to the MiTo - either owned or driven extensively (loads and loads of 155s, 145s, 146s as hire cars in Italy). Giulias x4, transaxles x3, Suds x2, 33s x3, 164s x2, 156, GT, MiTo - and it was the MiTo that cured me of modern "Virus Alfa" - none of what's good about Alfa with all of the issues. Life's too short. Ironically I never owned a 916 Alfa - went to buy a GTV V6 and came back with a 20VT.
Don't want the TI, just the 1.8; which has a bigger fuel tank and rear discs. There's one near me, that has been owned for years- I'm always just about to leave a note under the wiper...
But... There is only so much money in the world...!
It's taken decades for the penny to drop in my mind on that shape- I LOVE it!!!
My only detailed experience of BMW was a recent rental 5 series M badged diesel auto, which I was unfortunate to have as an insurance rental when my wife's Freelander got trashed.
It was well engineered, pleasant to drive, and the most hideous, ugly, nastiest place to sit I have every had the pleasure of using. Even my first car, a K plate (at the other end of the plate) Hillman Hunter 1725 twin stromberg estate, had a more scintillating character than this BMW thing.
I also had a new 5 series M badged diesel auto as a courtesy car when my E60 M5 was in the garage. And I completely agree with you. The steering wheel, although this might sound picky but I'm mentioning it in context of the rest of the interior, was the cheapest most horrible steering wheel I've ever had the misfortune to use.
This experience all by itself has put me off ever being tempted to 'upgrade' my M5 to the latest version, despite the fact it's arguably better than mine in pretty much every measurable way.
2016 Jaguar F-Type R AWD; 2017 BMW M4 Competition Package; 2015 Range Rover Evoque 2.2 Tech
Car looks good -I was at one of the 'official' launch events in an old warehouse in Glasgow ! Guy briefly told you the history of Alfa -- took you around a static photo display then a video clip which the screen then rolled back to reveal the car --- stuck in a corner 200mm from a back wall, 500mm from the side wall and when the screen slide back in place it was 1m from the front with terrible lighting --- so it was totally impossible to get a good view of the front or back !! Not one salesman came near me and I waited 1/2 hour so I walked up to wait with another guy to see the girl who was booking test drives -- he had had the exact same experience as me -- shocking for the launch of their new 'Halo' car - to finish it off I was waiting to be seen when an Alfa guy walked up with a couple and said -- book this couples test drive next they have to go shopping now !! I stood up and said well I must be invisible because I'm waiting to book my test drive --- as I have to go to work !! But I certainly won't ever be going to work in one of your cars -- and left It was such a poor launch I actually wrote to Alfa --- still waiting on a response --- also parked a few metres away was a BMW M3 ( I guess to compare it to). So what's my memories ? -- well I got a nice espresso -- spoke to nobody -got ignored - and the finish in the M3 destroyed the Alfa's flimsy feeling interior and ripply leather ( and I'm not a BMW fan) So well done Alfa --- I definitely won't be going near any of you showrooms EVER !!
was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not
Oh dear Paul - that doesn't sound good. One thing Alfa really needed sorting was the UK dealerships. You would think they would have prioritised that. They need to get some real Alfisiti people involved. People with a passion for these things and not just for the money. I once went for an interview at a brand new Fiat/Alfa dealership and even the dealer manager confessed that I knew loads more about the cars and brands than he did! Needless to say less than 12 months later it ceased to exist and VAG took the place over...
Coincidence, the Alfa dealership garage only a mile from me has just stopped its franchise. Annoyingly it was also the Seat dealer - a handy place to take Mrs Ed's recent Seat Mii purchase
I went in a couple of days ago when I was told about this - talk about long faces.....
I'm really not surprised by this. I got a pre-launch letter where the print was flaking off the page. Then I was invited to book a slot at the launch test drives and every time I selected a "free" slot I was told it was booked. It was really poor. My recent experiences with Mercedes haven't been much good either though...
Isn't it a real shame that there are so many of us wanting Alfa to succeed and the only thing they seem to be able to succeed at is chasing us all away !!!! Last year I was at the newly re- opened Alfa museum in the old factory where the built early Alfa's in Aresi Milan.
You forget how many amazing Alfa's there have been in the past One of the best museums I have ever been too !! the type 33 stradale is just a work of art- as are loads of the 50's ,60's and even early 70's cars I came away thinking I have to buy another Alfa ( last one was a 164 but with that glorious 3ltr busso engine -- car wasn't great but the engine was one of the greatest ever made)
But i fear they are now just another 'product' to be exploited by a bumbling sales and marketing team who don't have a clue what Alfa stand for --- what will I do ? Probably go back in time and pick up either a 147 GTA or GTV with that 3 or 3.2 ltr busso engine and put up with the older Alfa foibles
was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not
I had the great pleasure in doing the Alfa Romeo Guilia Dynamic driving experiance day at Millbrook. For those not part of the Facebook FCCUK forum page please see this post from my page/experience
Post 1 - The invitation
Recently I went on line to configure "My" Giulia Quadrifoglio* and filled in the contact page for a brochure to dribble over. Never in my dreams did I think I'd get invited to a VIP drive experience day at Milbrook Test Track courtesy of Alfa Romeo! Unfortunately, being Millbrook top secret testing ground, no photos are allowed 😢 Lets hope they send you something via email? If not it will be in my memories for a while to come.
I get to go round with "driver" then get to have a go myself (under tuition) and get fed and watered.
I can't wait for Saturday.............
Post 2 - The day after the experience
Well I think I have recovered from the day yesterday!? The journey up and back was the usual M25/M1 traffic, but it was worth it! What a fab day! Chauffeur driven from carpark to the Alfa Zone, then a no holes barred 4C passenger ride around the inzone short track. Those familiar with 5thGear it's the short concrete track that Tiff drives around. That 4C on the edge actually is pretty impressive, the driver was not holding back, that's for sure!
Then back for a spot of lunch: anti pasta and pasta/salad + desert - yum! Then onto the main event: Driving the New Giulia....... Both of the cars were L/H drive and pre production models with All the bells and whistles*. We were the first people in the UK to drive these cars, what a privilege! *Special paint, Carbon ceramic brakes and Carbon Sparco seat options.
I was paired up with another guy in a combination of a 2.0 diesel 150bhp and a 510bhp Quadrifoglio (Qf). There was another pair of drivers in the other vehicle. We started in the Qf on an up hill stretch. A full throttle, no holes barred drag up the hill and then a 120+mph stop on the Carbon Ceramic brakes - what a set of stoppers! It seriously rearranges your sences! It feels like you brain is in front of the bumper once stopped, such is the stopping power. Our car had the manual box and doesn't suit serious rapid turn of speed that this fabulous engine dish out - the 8 speed ZF auto with paddles is the one to get. But that's ok as the UK will only get this option anyway. To all the purists out there, "it's the way forward" at least in this car!
Then a quick turn around to be pleasantly surprised by the diesel, it was smooth in auto and fairly pokey with a good set of steel stoppers, which to my mind were more grabby and less progressive than the carbon set-up, but very efficiant.
Then we were off to the "Alpine Track" which has some fabulous stretches of road and some very challenging unsighted crests, corners and camber changes. All handled impeccably by both the cars driven. I even managed to hold onto the coat tails of the Qf in the diesel when following it.
Understeer is negligible, and there is only a hint of oversteer. This was with the traction control set to "Dynamic" a very impressive steer and heavy braking see no change in balance of the vehicle - both.
Then it was off to the high speed bowl for a run in both of the Giulia guises. It is such a stable car at 130mph it was so smooth and predictable with minimal road and wind noise, easy to pilot and have a civilised conversation in, even when the concrete surface is as lumpy and undulating as the bowl is. Hats off to the guys who do 200+mph around there, it's not as smooth as it looks on telly!
The exhaust has a lovely popping V6 thrum at tick over and not too intrusive exhaust noise during driving, but you sure know that you are driving something pretty special at max attack. You get a great "Thraaaarp" on overrun.
WOW! What acceloration! Never did it feel that it was out of shape or that the vehicle/chassis was being overwhelmed by the sheer power and torque of that lovely engine. The diesel was very civilised by comparison and would make a great all round every day car for 90% of the population. But for me, obviously being me! It's the V6 Twin Turbo, Ferrari designed 510bhp powered car all day long. We also got a limited edition/numbered sketch print, one for the wall me thinks.
Here's a link to a YouTube video of the day: PLAY I'm spottable at 1:23 secs blue top front row (if you're interested? )
Research Garage in Nuneaton have one - plus a couple of 'standard'/Super Giulia's. The QF looked stunning in my eyes. Gotta love those Alloys and that interior..... Research have a large area now with dedicated Fiat and Alfa/Abarth showrooms. I have to say its been a long while since the FCA group has had so many new exciting models across the lineup........ Giulia/4C/Abarth 500/124/Giulietta's with 8C style wheels etc etc
I know the Giulietta is older now MRS but seeing the latest versions alongside all the others made for an impressive lineup. I've had more FCA models than most over the years. The QF actually looked smaller in the flesh to me but just as nice!
I'm only at a combined number of 20 for Fiats/Alfas. Over my time Fiat have got generally better (though my first Italian car was an X1/9) and the Alfas gradually worse (though my first Alfa was a 33 4C). I hope that the Giulia will begin to turn that around.
Basis the new Guilia taking over the former 159 role. Anybody know what is planned for the 166 replacement....
Didn't the 166 run alongside the 156? As there was no replacement to run alongside the 159, I can't see them doing it now. It was a bit of a flop anyway as I recall...
Yes the large executive saloon market is dead, so expect an SUV / soft roader to fill that gap. Shame really. I've always liked the 166 and it's a pity there won't be a direct replacement
Well if no replacement of the 166, then maybe the Fiat group decided to build it under another Marque to tempt buyers, hence the Maserati Ghibli maybe......
Last edited by ScouseCoupe; 04/12/201623:47. Reason: Z
Alfa garage near me has the full fat 500bhp quadrofoglio version and it looks FAT! Its in red and its beautiful, id have one any day! Its got lovely little bits of trim and subtle touches that make the ordinary ones (like the veloce above) look boring.
It is a nice looking car but not really completely original. I see a C-Class in the sides, a 3-Series around the back quarters and an Audi in the back. Even the front seems to remind me of modern Jaguars with a different grill. It works but is not that excitingly different. A good design should work without the need for expensive trims. However, in the days of "computer and wind tunnel designed" cars, most cars are looking boringly samey. And don't get me started on the fact that they are also only mainly seen in design-invisible black ...
Probably YouTuber Paul from Supercars of London - he picked up his new 580-2 and was on his was to Dub Customs with Tony from Gravelwood Cars in his Giulia - YouTube'd
Walking back to the office just now, I was thinking aout the Top Gear episode when Chris smashed the windscreen ding that silly sliding feature... when one suddenly a QV trundled by... and pulled into the office car park So I pounced on him!
Guy said he'd just done a 150 mile drive in it and and that it was soo comfortable. Fnished in a dark metallic grey with black wheels for a change, it looked even more menacing. The windscreen had been smashed by a stone on motoray in the few weeks he' had it already though!
Wonderful piece of kit. I'm having a Coupé one. Not sure how yet, but I'm having one brand new within the next two years
I've seen a few of these since they were released, many in Assen last month but finally saw the 'Full Phat' model I like in my colour at Brooklands last weekend, carbon seats, steering wheel, red stitched trim with the carbon lips/skirts, I liked it so much I wanted to lick it
Want to like it but the styling for me is far too 'big' and Teutonic/Germanic for an Alfa Romeo; especially the rear. Performance is ace mind. I think the ALFA badge could easily be substituted with a BMW propellor and many would be hard pushed to question it's geographical origin.
If it is a success for the brand- then who can tell the public they are wrong..?
Personally I haven't been so interested in a car in decades. On an otherwise silent five hour drive recently - I inadvertently shouted (to myself) when I saw one the other day!
Anybody heard how they are selling? I've seen only one. Even as an Alfa fan like myself, you have to be quite brave to invest M-Series or AMG money on an Alfa. Part of the challenge will be how the finance packages shape up.
Yes I agree, I have an Alfa so have an interest in their survival..just feel that it may have leant too far away from the European market styling-wise to the US. Sounds gorgeous mind. I was looking for a more curvy luscious Italian creation in line with the 8c/4c amalgamation and not a BMW M5.
I was looking for a more curvy luscious Italian creation in line with the 8c/4c amalgamation and not a BMW M5.
If they go ahead with a coupé 'Sprint' model, they could easily head in this direction. A few tweaks to he haunches and rear would make all the difference. I think it could look amazing.
By the time that's launched (and let's face it, why wouldn't they?) the reliability of the cars would be a lot clearer and any issues hopefully addressed.
WTF were they thinking launching a SUV and no coupe? That's the Chinese market for you.
If copying the other big marques means it keeps the company afloat so they can produce a few tasty enthusiast cars on the side, then I'm all for it
All the other big marques have coupes first: Merc, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Maserati...
But they've already got established SUVs from revous generatons. For Alfa, it's a first (I think). I would have thought that a choice of a Saloon or an SUV would draw more people to the brand than a choice of a Saloon or a Coupé...
In China, maybe. But when was a regular saloon the mainstay of Alfa's line-up? And an SUV? But you can list coupe after coupe after coupe. There have been saloons alongside - Giulia Super, Alfetta, 75, 156, 164 - but these have mostly been quirky vs the GTVs, 8C, etc and the Spiders.
And I don't think either Jaguar or Maserati had an SUV from an earlier generation.
In China, maybe. But when was a regular saloon the mainstay of Alfa's line-up? And an SUV? But you can list coupe after coupe after coupe. There have been saloons alongside - Giulia Super, Alfetta, 75, 156, 164 - but these have mostly been quirky vs the GTVs, 8C, etc and the Spiders.
All true. Maybe 'business ss usual' is not what they're aiming for then? If they're trying to match ze German's, then they need to 'man mark' everything in their line ups, aiming to sell as many of each model type as they do. I have no idea what the figures are, but I'd imagine saloons are the mainstay of all of the German marques...
I think it makes sense. If they churn out three different, awesome Coupés now, then they won't sell enough to grow and they'll be as unreliable as always.
If they churn out all the mainstream stuff in droves, then it means the Coupés that (hopefully) follow will be of better quality, having borrowed the same platform.
The problem then, is that everything will be a bit more 'German'... You can't have it both ways
Yes, the problem is that SUVs are still the fastest growing main segment so if you don't have one then you rule out a huge part of the potential market.
Jaguar released their F-Pace and it immediately became their best seller. And Jaguar and diesel trucks does not naturally sit well together.
However, if you are profitable, you can expand, so one cannot ignore the buying public.
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