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Strange steering problem #1629412
09/02/2019 14:42
09/02/2019 14:42
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,455
Both feet in Meldrew Ave
Cappo Offline OP
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Hi all, hoping someone can point me in the right direction before I have to start rolling around on the ground under MrsC's 2000 20VT Plus.

I was driving it last weekend, exited a main road via a slip road, and halfway up the sliproad the steering wheel suddenly started juddering from side to side really violently - I'd say probably 3" of movement in either direction. I was right by a petrol station so I pulled in, checked everything I could do a visual on, and found nothing, so I drove along the road slowly and it all seemed fine again. I put it down to something on the road surface. Got home from there, about 40 miles, without it happening again.

However, she was driving it today and has told me that the same thing happened, twice. I drove it about 50 miles this morning with no problem. She then did a similar distance and got within 3 miles of home when this happened.

Are there any known/obvious reasons for this? All I can really think of is a knackered inner or outer track rod end, but it passed the MOT first time in December with no advisories, so it would be strange if that's happened so quickly.

All suggestions most welcome, thanks!





Habeus Maximus V8 Nihilum

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1629458
10/02/2019 23:48
10/02/2019 23:48
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
G
godders Offline
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Surrey Hills, U.K
Could a Viscos Diff playing up cause this?

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1629469
11/02/2019 08:39
11/02/2019 08:39
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,268
Kent
Submariner Offline
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Check the wheel bolts

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1629502
11/02/2019 13:15
11/02/2019 13:15
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,455
Both feet in Meldrew Ave
Cappo Offline OP
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Checked the wheel bolts the first time it happened, that was my immediate thought.

Re the diff, this has only occurred three times in approx 200 miles - I assume if that was playing up it would be more frequent? Also each time it has stopped after a short time/distance.

Here's my thought: each time it happened was after braking, twice coming off a motorway/A road, so, reasonably hard braking. I'm wondering whether one of the front calipers is binding after hard braking, and if it's grabbing the disc then that will shake the steering wheel. Once it cools down a little it releases and the wobbling stops. Make any sense?





Habeus Maximus V8 Nihilum

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1629503
11/02/2019 13:23
11/02/2019 13:23
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,861
FCSS 01684 593187
Countrycruising Offline
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Check tyre pressures and top mounts are the correct way round, bump forward as they're handed.

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1629517
11/02/2019 17:58
11/02/2019 17:58
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,617
In the coupe.
magooagain Offline
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In the coupe.
I was thinking about a caliper/pad binding after heavy braking and it's possible when you speed up again it throws the piston back into position.
But if it's binding after the braking it then really it should be getting hotter not cooler when moving off again,if still binding.

It could be on the cusp of giving a total lock up on that caliper. If of course that is the problem.



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Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Countrycruising] #1629525
11/02/2019 20:23
11/02/2019 20:23
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,455
Both feet in Meldrew Ave
Cappo Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Countrycruising
Check tyre pressures and top mounts are the correct way round, bump forward as they're handed.


I'd hope the top mounts are the right way around, last time they were off was about 5 years ago, and the problem only started a week ago!

Originally Posted by magooagain
I was thinking about a caliper/pad binding after heavy braking and it's possible when you speed up again it throws the piston back into position.
But if it's binding after the braking it then really it should be getting hotter not cooler when moving off again,if still binding.


Yes, I see where you're coming from there. My thoughts were that one of the pistons is just a bit slow to retract and that's what's binding. Could be wrong though. I just can't think what else would come on suddenly, only do it three times in about 200 miles (with perfectly normal driving in between) and only do it when braking for a roundabout each time it happened. Hmmm....





Habeus Maximus V8 Nihilum

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1629532
11/02/2019 21:40
11/02/2019 21:40
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,245
Lightwater, Surrey, UK
DaveG Offline
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I wouild agree that the track rod ends, drop links or other front suspension fittings could be to blame. Maybe a ball joint is on the way out and causing the steering to "jump" like that? But I suppose it could always be the rack istself or PAS pump?


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1629562
12/02/2019 09:43
12/02/2019 09:43
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,268
Kent
Submariner Offline
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Wheel balancing or tyre deformation/damage?

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1629569
12/02/2019 12:18
12/02/2019 12:18
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 561
Freedom
Master_Mariner Offline
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Freedom
Have you checked the level of the fluid in the power steering reservoir?

Sounds like the issue was when the car was pointed up hill?

Regards

MM

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Master_Mariner] #1629572
12/02/2019 12:50
12/02/2019 12:50
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,455
Both feet in Meldrew Ave
Cappo Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Master_Mariner
Have you checked the level of the fluid in the power steering reservoir?

Sounds like the issue was when the car was pointed up hill?

Regards

MM



I haven't, but on the three occasions it happened (approaching a roundabout coming off a motorway or main road), one was uphill, one was fairly steep downhill and one was completely flat.

Each time it has done it for about 2-3 seconds max and then stopped. So it's happened three times, for that short duration, in around 200 miles. The rest of that distance it has behaved perfectly and as expected. To me this rules out something broken or damaged.

I've arranged to have it on a ramp tomorrow, initially for a visual on all the suspension & steering components.





Habeus Maximus V8 Nihilum

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1629601
12/02/2019 19:16
12/02/2019 19:16
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,617
In the coupe.
magooagain Offline
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Just a comment about steering fluid. I have boiled my fluid plenty of times on track without any judders etc. mind you I know it can boil so I Allways make sure there is plenty in there.



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Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1629645
13/02/2019 17:42
13/02/2019 17:42
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 346
S Wales
Morrison Offline
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S Wales
Sticky piston. I had massive judder under heavy braking, or braking from speed. Swapped calipers with another set, no more judder.

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1629647
13/02/2019 18:23
13/02/2019 18:23
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 52
West wales
DavidRobot Offline
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West wales
I had similar from a loose wishbone bolt.

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1629655
13/02/2019 22:05
13/02/2019 22:05
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,455
Both feet in Meldrew Ave
Cappo Offline OP
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Well just to update. It went into a local garage today (a proper repair garage, not a "remove this whole item from the car and replace with a new item"), a garage which I have used, albeit mostly for MOTs, for at least 30 years, so they know me quite well.

They've driven it and been all over the front end and can't find anything more than a broken ABS/brake wear holding bracket and a few extra PSI in the front tyres. Driveshafts and CV joints all OK and holding grease.

The only thing they didn't dive into was the calipers but they don't think that could be the culprit. That said I might overhaul them at the weekend anyway, if only to rule them out.

So I'm properly stuck now.





Habeus Maximus V8 Nihilum

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1629656
13/02/2019 22:13
13/02/2019 22:13
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,681
Pothole City
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I heard of a similar problem a long time ago, which was eventually diagnosed as a damaged tyre. The damage was such that a bubble of rubber was sometimes being pushed out from the surface of the tyre without bursting, then being pushed back in again.

Would be worth at least swapping wheels front to back just to see if it makes any difference, might also help if it's some weird wheel balancing issue.

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: GrahamL] #1629718
15/02/2019 14:44
15/02/2019 14:44
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,455
Both feet in Meldrew Ave
Cappo Offline OP
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Originally Posted by GrahamL


Would be worth at least swapping wheels front to back just to see if it makes any difference, might also help if it's some weird wheel balancing issue.


Thanks yes, potential quick win there, I'll try that.





Habeus Maximus V8 Nihilum

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1631722
15/04/2019 19:04
15/04/2019 19:04
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,455
Both feet in Meldrew Ave
Cappo Offline OP
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Well, I'm back again. I know this was a good few weeks back but for all manner of non-car reasons I haven't had much time to play with cars.

After all of the above I rebuilt the callipers completely (top tip: there's no need to split them to fit new seals and dust seals wink ) but that didn't cure it. MrsC bravely carried on using it to try and find out what was what. The last time she did so, she ended up limping it home with it "making noises" - clunk and knocks and bangs were mentioned.

So then it has sat on the drive for a few weeks until I got a chance to take it out this evening. What's happening is that when you accelerate, there is a loud clicking noise, in time with wheel rotation speed, coming from, I'm 99.9% sure, the offside. If I had to guess I'd say it was at the wheel end and not the gearbox end. It clicks when you accelerate, it stops on overrun (even with the clutch still engaged), and it clicks louder the harder you accelerate. So now I'm thinking outer CV joint - although, it's doing it in s straight line, not just when you turn.

Still not sure how that would cause the steering wobble; possible that we have two separate problems I guess.

Any views on CV joint or something else? Are they a ball ache to change? Better/easier to swap the whole driveshaft?

Thanks all.





Habeus Maximus V8 Nihilum

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1631723
15/04/2019 19:31
15/04/2019 19:31
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 32,248
Hemel in the Hempstead
barnacle Offline
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CVs aren't a nightmare once you've pulled all the goopy grease out to find the various circlips that hold them on the shaft and hit them to get them off the splines and dropped one of the balls out that won't go back in again unless you bend it to *just* the right angle...

Joe might have a driveshaft smile


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Re: Strange steering problem [Re: barnacle] #1631726
15/04/2019 20:23
15/04/2019 20:23
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,455
Both feet in Meldrew Ave
Cappo Offline OP
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laugh Thanks Neil. I'll drop Joe a line.





Habeus Maximus V8 Nihilum

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1631733
16/04/2019 00:13
16/04/2019 00:13
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 744
The South of the West
JonH Offline
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Probably isn't this (rare) but a fatigued wheel ?

Maybe a hidden but growing hairline crack across a spoke, or two.
They can go 'clicky-clicky-clickety-click' , before they eventually go 'cracky-cracky-crackity-bang'' !



No.199
Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1631744
16/04/2019 09:44
16/04/2019 09:44
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,681
Pothole City
GrahamL Offline
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If one or more engine mounts have collapsed the drive shaft can contact the wishbone under acceleration.

Maybe CV joint but I'd expect that to be much worse at full lock rather than in straight line. Replacing CV joint can be a nightmare if the joint is seized to the drive shaft, I ended up having to cut one off with an angle grinder. You can get a CV joint puller tool which is pretty good (worked for me on the other side) but on the seized side I ended up stripping the hub nut thread completely clean and the CV joint hadn't moved at all.

Re: Strange steering problem [Re: Cappo] #1631749
16/04/2019 17:06
16/04/2019 17:06
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,455
Both feet in Meldrew Ave
Cappo Offline OP
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I agree Graham that I'd expect a CV joint to be noisier when turning but this is definitely in a straight line. It's a very definite sharp clicking noise although not really heavy, ie a click not a bang, if that makes sense?

Also it is quite definitely louder if you accelerate harder.

I checked the engine mounts when the steering issue first arose, with a bar to rock the engine, and couldn't see anything amiss.





Habeus Maximus V8 Nihilum


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