Apparently, the deaths were caused by:



In my innocence I had thought it was because some neanderthal IRA murderer had planted a bomb.

Yes,but I thought it was also declared yesterday that the poor 21 people were murdered.

Indeed they were.

But the legal conceit that their deaths were caused or contributed to by an inadequate warning gets me thoroughly wound up... the cause of their deaths was that someone felt that planting bombs was a valid political protest; that the bomb planters, or the organisation behind them, may have felt that supplying a warning would prevent death or injury is iniquitous and ingenuous at best.

This coroner's comment effectively legitimises that behaviour. It was OK that you placed the explosive; the fault was that your warning was insufficient.

I don't hold any brief for terrorism in any flavour. I have argued strongly in the past that there should be no such class of person as 'terrorist' and that they should be charged with the crimes they commit: murder, conspiracy thereto, discharge of firearms, assault with a deadly weapon and all the rest. Legitimising a class of criminal helps, I feel, no-one... except the criminals themselves.

I don't disagree with anything you have written there. I do have a question however; do you consider state sanctioned terrorism the same? Personally I do and don't consider for one minute that the UK behaved any better, their actions just never made the headlines in the same way. There is a lot of murky history to the troubles, UK "state security apparatus" and the ruling classes have a lot to answer for too.

I thought that the UK SIS, UK Army Intelligence, RUC SB and the UDR under UK political authority and guidance were orchestrating and colluding with many of the actions and factions of PIRA, UDA, UVF et al by the 1970's onwards.

They (UK political establishment) were playing both sides all the way back to the first world war.

As above you're not wrong.
But it's a historical conflict where many factions think more than one other factions are wrong. Rightly or wrongly the British have got involved in Ireland and it's not forgotten by certain groups.
It could be argued British involvement was a nessesary thing,but not from many in Ireland.

"It could be argued British involvement was a nessesary thing,but not from many in Ireland." Could you explain this comment

The arguement is that British troops were minding the UKs assets etc in the name of keeping the peace.

Well Neil, both you and I will agree that "religion" has a lot to answer for in many instances, Ireland being a strong case in point.

Dem pesky interferences.....

Ok are you talking about British troops circa 1969 ??

It is not my intention to get into the rights and wrongs over who did what to whom over the last century.

My point is *entirely* that it is never acceptable to try and present a political point of view with murder. "Now look what you made me do" is just trying to shift the blame for the action. The reasons behind the actions are different and from at least one viewpoint are acceptable, but the actions themselves are not those of civilised people.

This applies equally whether the murderer is homegrown or not; governmental or not.

Yes Clanger.

Much like the French have directly sanctioned mass military actions leading to many many deaths (hundreds) in Chad, Niger, Mauritania, Burkina Faso, Mali and a lot of other part of its old empire over there "troubles". That's before you start looking into the military attack on the Greenpeace ship "Rainbow Warrior" (2 I believe). And countless other shootings in more recent anti-Jihadi raids inside and outside of France. And bombing and raids in Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq...etc etc. That did not work out too well for the western world....

Your point isn't lost on me. BUT...

I suspect - at a time when people around the world are monitored, listened too, and shadowed on line and off, with cameras in the streets and roads, and national intelligence gathering agencies knowing who you are and how you dress - you won't find any Country that does not sponsor a very large, targeted, relentless military action- by its ruling classes against any group it wants done away with. People tend to agree with this - as they NEVER vote to bring down governments that do it at election time. It's unconvenient to say that - but that's how it is. People turn a blind eye to what's done in the name of their country.

France, like the UK - used to rule a large part of the globe. And it's history of strong military response to uprisings/terrorism/people they say are a threat to them is just as big as the UK Maybe there are even more events we the public are not even aware of yet...

It's hard to tell who are the "good guys" and who are the "bad guys" when they are both shooting people.

MM

Good article from the Irish Times about Op Kenova and the apparent investigation into the collusion and killings by MI5 IRA Loyalists and British Military Intelligence (FRU)

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ire...-of-spying-during-the-troubles-1.3043818