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Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: SJ2004] #1631537
07/04/2019 23:01
07/04/2019 23:01
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Staffordshire
Nigel Online sleepy OP
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That’s what happe
Originally Posted by SJ2004
Nigel,

Just checked your MOT History on https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/
N18 ELO

That is one seriously clean MOT history for the last ten years.


Yup - that what happens when they’re looked after properly - OK it only did 60,000 miles in that time, but for at least half of the time, it was used all year round


[Linked Image]
Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1631664
13/04/2019 12:05
13/04/2019 12:05
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South Cambs
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South Cambs
Nigel, I had my car up for sale on the forum for quite a long time. I had a price listed, kept dropping and invited "Offers" too. But despite a few nibbles it never sold! I, like you I suspect, was never 100% sure I wanted to sell the car and I also wanted the car to go to someone who would appreciate it. I was also kept thinking I would let it go when I had it's replacement sorted! I was also too attached to the car.

But then, by chance, I spotted an RS for sale at Bury St Edmunds and took the opportunity to go out on another road test. It was a cracking car just missing one or two options but it dawned on me that it had been months since I last looked at one! I guessed that one reason I wasn't looking / buying was because I still had the Coupé sat in the garage. So I resolved that I had to sell the Coupé, if I didn't I would never move on!

So I placed a dreaded, but very detailed, E-bay advert. The car sold within hours of listing, to someone from the Forum! I had several other people contact me about the car before I managed to close the E-bay advert, and a heck of a lot of folks following the advert too shocked I think that when cars are listed on here they generally move very slowly. If you really want to sell the car then a detailed E-bay or Auto Trader advert will be the only way.


Panther Black TTRS Coupé - Daytona Grey A5 Coupé (Black) - White TT roadster (Amp Black)
Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632154
01/05/2019 10:57
01/05/2019 10:57
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Guildford
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Frogthedog Offline
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I'm glad you are keeping it Nigel!
I was seriously thinking of selling my car and taking the plunge.


Now in a hair dressers car.
Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Frogthedog] #1632155
01/05/2019 11:51
01/05/2019 11:51
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Staffordshire
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Originally Posted by Frogthedog
I'm glad you are keeping it Nigel!
I was seriously thinking of selling my car and taking the plunge.


as is often the case with longstanding Coupe owners, I keep wavering - I'm now back to selling it again - I'm now open to sensible offers, as if the car isn't used, its just going to deteriorate. I've put just one tank of fuel in it since December, so it really is wasting the car and its time for someone else to take it over and carry on with the improvements

I now think that the best way for me to sell is with the car as it is, and then I'll sell all my spares separately.

So - make me an offer....


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Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632177
02/05/2019 11:51
02/05/2019 11:51
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Guildford
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Frogthedog Offline
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Nigel, I am going to think seriously about this over the weekend.

Obviously I need to sell my car first.

Can you tell me how many miles the forged engine has done and what the realistic yearly maintenance costs for your car is as it's a bit "special".

Also the thing that's bothering me a little is the cold start issue!

I understand that your sort of car will need "tinkering" every now and then and that's fine butI don't have the funds I used to have spare to throw at it


Now in a hair dressers car.
Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Frogthedog] #1632178
02/05/2019 11:54
02/05/2019 11:54
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Guildford
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Frogthedog Offline
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Sorry! It didn't let me finish. Weird!
As I was saying I don't have the funds to throw lots of money at it every five minutes. So I guess what I'm asking will it be reliable long term with the proper maintenance or am I looking at regular rebuilds, gearboxes etc?


Now in a hair dressers car.
Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632180
02/05/2019 13:30
02/05/2019 13:30
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Staffordshire
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The maintenance costs will clearly depend on the mileage you do (and how you do it!). However, even when I was using it for 25,000 mile a year, the maintenance wasn't much more than standard. It had basic service (oil, filter) every 12,000 miles and a full service (oil, filter, plugs, pollen & fuel filters) every 24,000 miles. The only expensive stuff there was that I used Mobil 1 10W60 oil - about £50 - £60 for a sump-full and the plugs are NGK Iridiums - about £10 each.

The front brake pads won't be cheap - £200-ish per set, but they are quite recent.

The front discs will be horribly expensive when they need replacing (Brembo floating discs - probably about £500 the pair, but aftermarket replacements will be available for less)

The engine has done about (wait for it....) about 300,000 miles shocked but only about 150,000 miles since it was forged. However, in that time, it has had two full rebuilds, the second of which included a re-bore, new Accralite high CR pistons, new rings and new big end and main shells. I can find out the exact mileage if required, but my guess is that it has done c 30,000 miles since the last full rebuild - maybe less. The cylinder head was also replaced at the last rebuild, as we found the guides were worn. Its a Barbz head and it has been perfect since it was fitted.

I've probably made more of the cold start issue than I should have.

At this time of year, there really isn't an issue - it starts instantly and I just leave it for 30-60 seconds (which the neighbours love...) - after that, its perfectly happy to drive off, although it can be a tad lumpy for the first quarter mile.

In winter (eg morning starts at temperatures less than about five degrees), it still starts perfectly every time, but really isn't happy pulling away until the ECU has finished the cold-start map (takes about 1 - 2 mins). Very occasionally (maybe once per 100+ starts), it will cut out while it's warming up, at which point the cold-start map has been finished and it reverts to the normal running map. In that case, re-starting involves full throttle and 10 - 20 seconds on the starter motor and it will eventually splutter into life and it will be fine for the rest of the day.

As is usual with any of my ads, I've probably been over-honest. The car is ultra-reliable and once you're over the slightly less-than-perfect cold start, it will run happily all day. Sure, there are compromises - the suspension is jiggly round town. The clutch is heavy and a bit juddery if you try to trickle along at 1,000rpm in traffic. The interior plastics creak a bit due to the firm suspension. The Quaife diff gives some "interesting" handling quirks until you're used to it, at which point it becomes a revelation.

The biggest drawback is the slightly tired bodywork, which has already been well described and factored into the price. I reckon a grand would have it looking very decent and a couple of grand would have it better than new.

So - in answer to your question - the maintenance really isn't at all scary - some stuff wears out a bit quicker than it would do on a standard car and some of it will be more expensive when it eventually needs replacing. Otherwise, it has been built to be reliable as well as quick and doesn't require daft stuff like monthly oil changes and unobtainium spark plugs....


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Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632181
02/05/2019 13:47
02/05/2019 13:47
Joined: Dec 2005
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Staffordshire
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I didn't fully answer your question - I reckon if you're doing two or three thousand miles a year in it, your maintenance bill should be comfortably less than a grand a year. Occasionally, something will break or wear out, at which point the cost is open ended - a new clutch will be close to a grand fitted. A new turbo will be £1500+, but both have years left in them yet


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Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632183
02/05/2019 14:25
02/05/2019 14:25
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Guildford
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Frogthedog Offline
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Thanks for the info Nigel.
I will think long and hard over the weekend and get back to you.
Subject to me being daft enough to come back to coupè land smile , would it be possible to view some time over the next week or so?

Thanks

Frog


Now in a hair dressers car.
Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632187
02/05/2019 15:34
02/05/2019 15:34
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Staffordshire
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Of course - happy for you to come and have a look. Also happy to take you out for a decent-length drive so that you can feel what its like on a variety of roads. If you want to insure yourself fully comp for the day, you can drive it too.

I have a "soft" deadline - my insurance is due for renewal at the end of May, so I'd rather not renew if I don't have to (BTW - its less than £300 a year, so don't worry about the mods making it hugely expensive to insure)


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Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632308
07/05/2019 08:33
07/05/2019 08:33
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Guildford
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Hi again Nigel,
Couple of more questions,

How is the Oil pressure cold/hot?
Can you explain quirky diff?
What boost do you run at and is that within safety margins?
Is it the standard ECU remapped or stand alone? If this goes belly up is the map "saved" somewhere? Reasonably cheap to flash a new ECU if required?

Has the gearbox been strengthened in any way? Remember going through 3 with just 300bhp in my previous coupe.

Sorry if they sound silly questions but I just want to be fully aware of the cost of running and keeping it top top if I decide to take the plunge.

Cheers
Frog


Now in a hair dressers car.
Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Frogthedog] #1632309
07/05/2019 08:59
07/05/2019 08:59
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Guildford
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Also oil consumption.


Now in a hair dressers car.
Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632313
07/05/2019 12:15
07/05/2019 12:15
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Guildford
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Frogthedog Offline
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Sorry again,
Also why did it need a second rebuild? Did something fail or wear out prematurely?


Now in a hair dressers car.
Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632315
07/05/2019 12:40
07/05/2019 12:40
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Guildford
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Frogthedog Offline
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Has the CHOD been replaced?
I keep thinking of things after I posted. Sorry.


Now in a hair dressers car.
Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632321
07/05/2019 14:01
07/05/2019 14:01
Joined: Dec 2005
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Staffordshire
Nigel Online sleepy OP
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Staffordshire
How is the Oil pressure cold/hot?

Always at 3 bar when driving. Gets down to 2 bar at tickover when fully warm and about 1.75bar when stuck in traffic on a hot summer day

Can you explain quirky diff?

The Quaife diff "shuffles" power to whichever wheel has the most grip. Perversely, on surfaces with low grip, the diff will move power from side to side, which gives the feeling of torque-steer (which it isn't - it just feels that way). Also, when changing down a gear at high revs on low-grip surfaces, the diff does its thing, but in reverse, maning that the engine braking is applied un-evenly across the wheels. However, all the quirks are forgiven when accelerating hard while cornering - the way it puts the power down is just freaky

What boost do you run at and is that within safety margins?

The boost controller has four channels, plus an "off" setting. Off gives base boost of 0.8 bar. There's then 1.0bar, 1.2 bar, 1.4 bar and 1.6bar to choose from. The boost controller can also control the rate of boost climb, so its possible to have a gradual boost build if required (easier on the tyres and tends to result in less screams from the passengers....). The car has been live-mapped to all the four main boost settings, so its perfectly safe at any setting you choose (note it has been maped on 99RON fuel, so I would only recommend using the higher boost when you have Shell V-Power or Tesco 99 in the tank)

Is it the standard ECU remapped or stand alone? If this goes belly up is the map "saved" somewhere? Reasonably cheap to flash a new ECU if required?

The ECU is the OE Motronic, with a live map from Leighton at FC Performance. Leighton has a copy of all of the maps. If the ECU dies, just replace it and plug in the FC Performance chip (I have a spare ECU ready, just in case...)

Has the gearbox been strengthened in any way? Remember going through 3 with just 300bhp in my previous coupe.

The gearbox isn't strengthened. My own experience is that its shock loads that break the box, and its usually the diff that goes. I've done two, hence eventually fitting the Quaife. Just use the best oil you can find

Also oil consumption.

Very modest, depending on how it is driven. Ordinary enthusiastic road use I would guess at 250ml per 1000 miles - very hard trackday use might get it up to 1/2 a litre per 1000. I use Mobil 1 10W60, due to the mileage on the engine - I have a couple of litres that will be supplied with the car

Also why did it need a second rebuild? Did something fail or wear out prematurely?

Both rebuilds were caused by the driver, not the car. The first rebuild was because I ran 2.1 bar on 102 octane fuel at Ten of the Best - I melted the edge of a couple of pistons. This was when I had the Accralite oversize pistons fitted - actual capacity is now 2,047cc. The second rebuild was when the aux belt jumped into the cambelt on a high-revs downward gearchange. Turns out the aux belt had been a bit loose and had flapped around when the revs suddenly peaked. The cylinder head was toast (as you'd expect). I commissioned Barbz to build a new flowed head

Has the CHOD been replaced?

Yes, with a silicone CHOD, after the extra heat from the exhaust made OE CHODs go brittle (I went through three before changing to silicone)


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Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632350
08/05/2019 07:09
08/05/2019 07:09
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Guildford
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Frogthedog Offline
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Deep breath!

Ok Nigel, I'm going to put my car on auto trader tonight and see what happens 😎

Not sure I'm doing the right thing but I can never seem to find a car that brings me joy (and head ache) like the coupe ever did.

I would like to come and see your coupe when convenient please?

Obviously you need to keep your car for sale until I have sold mine. Equally if you sell it in the meantime let me know asap so I can take my car off the market as I have no interest in selling it otherwise.

Cheers
Frog


Now in a hair dressers car.
Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632361
08/05/2019 11:49
08/05/2019 11:49
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Staffordshire
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I know what you mean about doing the right thing - even though I'm convinced the Coupe needs a new home, I'm really not 100% sure. I have a horrible feeling that as it burbles off down the road, I'm going to get "seller's regret".

I might make you sign a document that allows me first refusal on buying it back if you ever sell up....

Drop me a PM with your phone number and we can have a chat about arranging a viewing / test drive


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Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632363
08/05/2019 14:27
08/05/2019 14:27
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Guildford
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Frogthedog Offline
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Ha ha I bought a Triumph speed triple a while ago and he said the same. He actually bought it back off me when I sold it and thanked me for looking after it 😎

Will send my number now.

Cheers
Frog


Now in a hair dressers car.
Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632610
18/05/2019 04:45
18/05/2019 04:45
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Posts: 1,085
Berkshire
AnnieMac Offline
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Berkshire
Hello Nigel, how do you get insurance for a car that's been modified? Does the insurance company come out to see it? Or do you just list all the mods?


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Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632613
18/05/2019 08:03
18/05/2019 08:03
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,222
Lightwater, Surrey, UK
DaveG Online content
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List all the mods and declare the expected or measured power in bhp


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632614
18/05/2019 08:05
18/05/2019 08:05
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,222
Lightwater, Surrey, UK
DaveG Online content
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But these days even a dashcam counts as a modification (which can reduce your premium a bit)


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: AnnieMac] #1632640
18/05/2019 21:00
18/05/2019 21:00
Joined: Dec 2005
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Staffordshire
Nigel Online sleepy OP
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Originally Posted by AnnieMac
Hello Nigel, how do you get insurance for a car that's been modified? Does the insurance company come out to see it? Or do you just list all the mods?


Just supply a (long) list of the modifications - several companies then declined to quote, but a handful of specialists were ok with it - costs about £250 a year with 3,000 miles a year limit


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Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1632647
19/05/2019 15:55
19/05/2019 15:55
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Guildford
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Frogthedog Offline
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Guildford
Well!
Scotty said "you can't change the laws of physics"
Nigel has with his car!

I went up and and saw Nigel and his car yesterday. What can I say? The way his car handles and goes around corners defies logic. It's immense!

I have fallen in love with the 5 pot burble all over again. Great handling and awesome acceleration but a normal coupé when you want.

Hopefully my car sells soon before someone else grabs a super coupé.

Just a bit of body work and it will be A1.

Thank you for demonstrating your car Nigel. Hope to see you soon.

Frog


Now in a hair dressers car.
Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Frogthedog] #1632663
20/05/2019 08:58
20/05/2019 08:58
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,157
Staffordshire
Nigel Online sleepy OP
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Thanks for the feedback - It was fairly unusual to have a passenger that didn't squeak or squeal when I put my foot down! You can imagine what it will be like with some new tyres on it? - the traction is half-decent now with five year old Toyos, but would be epic with some AD08Rs

As discussed, I have probably been overly pessimistic with my description. The cold start issue isn't too bad really, and the bodywork is iffy in a couple of places, but mostly pretty good for a 20 year old car.

The one thing I probably haven't made enough of is the fact that it can be quite normal when you want it to be - off boost, it's very docile and easy to drive. The lower settings on the boost controller also means that it can be made to be quite linear on boost. However, the upper settings are just addictive.

I hope you manage to sell the Merc - I know I'm going to regret letting the Coupe go, but it will be slightly less depressing if I know it is going to someone who will look after it


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Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1633344
13/06/2019 16:27
13/06/2019 16:27
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Guildford
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Frogthedog Offline
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Hi Nigel
Just to update you I have had no takers for my car. I'm not going to give it away so I will have say sorry at this point in time to buying your car.
I'm really sorry as I thought it would sell.

Good luck with the sale.

Frog


Now in a hair dressers car.
Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1633362
14/06/2019 09:06
14/06/2019 09:06
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Staffordshire
Nigel Online sleepy OP
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No problem Frog - if things change, you know where I am.....


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Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1633369
14/06/2019 13:44
14/06/2019 13:44
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Staffordshire
Nigel Online sleepy OP
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I really didn't want to do this, but....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/323834244052


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Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1633429
17/06/2019 23:31
17/06/2019 23:31
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SJ2004 Offline
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Oggy oggy oggy, oi oi oi!

Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1634119
21/07/2019 23:42
21/07/2019 23:42
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SJ2004 Offline
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Originally Posted by Nigel
I really didn't want to do this, but....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/323834244052


Listing ended?

Re: Highly modified 20VT Plus [Re: Nigel] #1634120
22/07/2019 06:27
22/07/2019 06:27
Joined: Dec 2005
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Staffordshire
Nigel Online sleepy OP
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Yes, listing ended. Plenty of interest (3,000+ views and 60+ watchers). A few semi-serious offers, but not quite close enough to make me part with it.


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