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Should I replace Phase sensor #1635059
27/08/2019 23:55
27/08/2019 23:55
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 204
Isle of Wight,
Skiday Offline OP
Club Member 1700
Skiday  Offline OP
Club Member 1700
Making a profit

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 204
Isle of Wight,
I'm just about to (attempt to) do my first every cam belt change tomorrow. My Fiat mechanic friend (who will be bailing me out in the event I stumble) just Whatapped me to ask if my car has ever had it's phase sensor changed. No it hasn't, but there are so many things you could change 'just to be on the safe side' (hose of death, water-pump, this etc) you've got to stop somewhere. I'm doing the water-pump. Should I really worry about changing the sensor even though it's clearly working? (all hoses look to be in excellent condition) Year 2000 20v turbo with just over 100k miles.

Thanks

Andrew


20VT, Aston DBS, Ferrari F355
Re: Should I replace Phase sensor [Re: Skiday] #1635070
28/08/2019 09:30
28/08/2019 09:30
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,681
Pothole City
GrahamL Offline
Forum is my job
GrahamL  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,681
Pothole City
When I did my cam belt I just left the old sensor alone as it was working fine. Have seen a few horror stories over the years of new sensors failing within days or weeks of being fitted, I even know of one sensor that was dead out of the box and immediately needed replaced. It's also possible to kill a new sensor by getting it dirty or with poor alignment during fitting, so overall I went with the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy. smile I also figured I'd be much more annoyed if I replaced the sensor and the new one failed than if I left it alone and the old one failed.

And as I said over on that other thread, note that the 50nm torque values given for the belt tensioner + pulley in the guides is wrong, it should only be 25nm as specified in the Fiat engine manual.

See this old thread for more details :

https://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1605641

Re: Should I replace Phase sensor [Re: Skiday] #1635076
28/08/2019 14:16
28/08/2019 14:16
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,382
highlands
jimboy Offline
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jimboy  Offline
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Forum is my job

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,382
highlands
I'm no expert on this, but I always changed this censor when getting belts done. Read on here apart from being on the safe side, if the damn things goes, you have to take everything off again. I've also read lately by Barnacle, for some reason they tend to go when belts are changed. For me for the sake of 70/80 quid or so I would change. Perhaps I'm being too careful, but with Coops you just never know...... driving

I bow to Grahaml knowledge above. Ach! I don't know if truth be told..... nerd

Last edited by jimboy; 28/08/2019 14:19. Reason: more information.

I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
Re: Should I replace Phase sensor [Re: Skiday] #1635083
28/08/2019 18:38
28/08/2019 18:38
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 32,248
Hemel in the Hempstead
barnacle Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Hemel in the Hempstead
My best guess about why they die is that over time, the insulation becomes brittle and movement of the cable during the belt change causes it to crack - either breaking the internal wire or shorting it to ground. But this is speculation; it's years since I had a 20vt - but I've seen or heard of them dying on a regular basis just after a change.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! [b]Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide[/b] <-- clicky!
Re: Should I replace Phase sensor [Re: Skiday] #1635095
29/08/2019 10:54
29/08/2019 10:54
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 204
Isle of Wight,
Skiday Offline OP
Club Member 1700
Skiday  Offline OP
Club Member 1700
Making a profit

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 204
Isle of Wight,
Things that make you go 'hmmmmmmm'... One don't, one do, and one don't know confused At least I now know why it fails which makes sense. I see there are original ones on eBay for £77 (alt autos) but also BOSCH with 53% off at £44. Is the Bosch to be trusted?

Anyway I've yet to get to it as I'm at step 12 in the step by step guide to cam belt changing and the engine cannot lift high enough to get the rear ribe bolt out. I shall skip to 20 and remove the left front mount (which is supposed to be optional but seems to be necessary in any event) to see if that helps.


20VT, Aston DBS, Ferrari F355
Re: Should I replace Phase sensor [Re: Skiday] #1635096
29/08/2019 11:28
29/08/2019 11:28
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 204
Isle of Wight,
Skiday Offline OP
Club Member 1700
Skiday  Offline OP
Club Member 1700
Making a profit

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 204
Isle of Wight,
I just found a Magneti Marelli from Poland (as stupidly I didn't think to search for 'Nockenwellenposition sensor' banghead That's an OEM brand so I've ordered that for 30 euros + 8 for dhl express. Now I just have to find the top tie bar engine support bush (engine end) which is proving more elusive.


20VT, Aston DBS, Ferrari F355
Re: Should I replace Phase sensor [Re: Skiday] #1635102
29/08/2019 16:09
29/08/2019 16:09
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 915
Leics UK
Ballypete Offline
Club Treasurer
Ballypete  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 915
Leics UK
Originally Posted by Skiday
I just found a Magneti Marelli from Poland (as stupidly I didn't think to search for 'Nockenwellenposition sensor' banghead That's an OEM brand so I've ordered that for 30 euros + 8 for dhl express. Now I just have to find the top tie bar engine support bush (engine end) which is proving more elusive.


I think you might struggle with that bush Skiday based on previous posts on the same topic.


Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V
Bog standard needn't be boring...
Re: Should I replace Phase sensor [Re: Skiday] #1635112
30/08/2019 00:15
30/08/2019 00:15
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 204
Isle of Wight,
Skiday Offline OP
Club Member 1700
Skiday  Offline OP
Club Member 1700
Making a profit

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 204
Isle of Wight,
Joe gave me a top tip cheat; He said to find a piece of metal tube (which I have done) that is just the right size to squeeze in between the two halves of the now split bush. The bush is once again firm as it should be. He will however be getting new stock in a couple of weeks.


20VT, Aston DBS, Ferrari F355
Re: Should I replace Phase sensor [Re: Skiday] #1635113
30/08/2019 06:54
30/08/2019 06:54
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,382
highlands
jimboy Offline
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jimboy  Offline
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Forum is my job

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,382
highlands
I'm curious Skiday, can't visualise the bush remedy, any chance of a photo.


I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
Re: Should I replace Phase sensor [Re: Skiday] #1635183
01/09/2019 17:52
01/09/2019 17:52
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 204
Isle of Wight,
Skiday Offline OP
Club Member 1700
Skiday  Offline OP
Club Member 1700
Making a profit

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 204
Isle of Wight,
Joe gave me a link for the bush. You can buy it for £29ish here;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Right-En...23884386854?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

but if you want to save the hassle of pushing out the old bush and pressing in the new then Joe's cheat is as follows (if I've understood him correctly - Ithink I have anyway :))

The bush is waisted in the middle to aid flexability, this is where it seperates (see the picture on the ebay listing)

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/D8mzCD0S/Cheat.jpg[/img]" onclick="window.open('http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/imagepopup.php?image=[img]https://i.postimg.cc/D8mzCD0S/Cheat.jpg[/img]', 'imagepopup', 'toolbar=no,scrollbars=yes,width=300,height=300'); return false;" target=imagepopup>[img]https://i.postimg.cc/D8mzCD0S/Cheat.jpg[/img]" style="border: 1px solid black; padding: 5px;" height="60" vspace="5" alt="click to enlarge">

You need to remove the inner section and find a bit of metal tube just the right size to squeeze the centre section into. If you can find a bit of tube that fits snugly then by definition it will be the right size to squeeze into the outer section still inside the mount;

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/8szk53hZ/Cheat-3.jpg[/img]" onclick="window.open('http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/imagepopup.php?image=[img]https://i.postimg.cc/8szk53hZ/Cheat-3.jpg[/img]', 'imagepopup', 'toolbar=no,scrollbars=yes,width=300,height=300'); return false;" target=imagepopup>[img]https://i.postimg.cc/8szk53hZ/Cheat-3.jpg[/img]" style="border: 1px solid black; padding: 5px;" height="60" vspace="5" alt="click to enlarge">

This will take up the slack and as you still have rubber on both sides of your new bit of tube it should all be good again.

By the way. After Photobucket went subscription I moved to Tinypic, but now that's closing so I'm now using postimages.org. The preview is not showing the imgpopper, let's hope it works when I post, or you'll have to follow the link. Anyone got a better immage site to use?

Last edited by Skiday; 01/09/2019 17:57.

20VT, Aston DBS, Ferrari F355
Re: Should I replace Phase sensor [Re: Skiday] #1635184
01/09/2019 17:55
01/09/2019 17:55
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 204
Isle of Wight,
Skiday Offline OP
Club Member 1700
Skiday  Offline OP
Club Member 1700
Making a profit

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 204
Isle of Wight,
Yeah, as I thought - not working - don't know why

here are the links alone (plus 2 moire pics);

click to enlarge
click to enlarge
click to enlarge
click to enlarge

Last edited by Edinburgh; 01/09/2019 18:14. Reason: to see how it works Andrew press "Quote"...

20VT, Aston DBS, Ferrari F355
Re: Should I replace Phase sensor [Re: Skiday] #1635186
01/09/2019 18:17
01/09/2019 18:17
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,681
Pothole City
GrahamL Offline
Forum is my job
GrahamL  Offline
Forum is my job

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,681
Pothole City
That looks like the earlier type of top stabiliser bar so you can just replace the worn bush part with a "Febi Bilstein bush 12062".

I actually found if you grind a few mm off each one you can fit 2 in there side by side and it works even better, all for under £5 on ebay. smile

The Quinton Hazel Bush EMB2684 also fits (looks just the same) but is a bit more expensive.


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