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The World is Bewildering #1637134
28/11/2019 21:45
28/11/2019 21:45
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,739
Cambridge & Cotswolds
M
MeanRedSpider Offline OP
Je suis un Coupé
MeanRedSpider  Offline OP
Je suis un Coupé
M

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,739
Cambridge & Cotswolds
I’m in a battle with my builder (isn’t everyone?) over, in particular, some double glazing (isn’t everyone?)..

Anyhow, after many many attempts of the contractor and others to fix the faults (unsuccessfully) I’ve now refused to let them continue and have demanded replacements (under consumer protection law). I have not paid for the bifolds.

Here’s the weird bit: the builder’s solicitor is demanding I give access to the contractors to fix the issues. The solicitor is also claiming that the doors are not faulty. Anybody spot the contradiction here?

I have loads of emails from the builder admitting that the doors were months late, badly installed and even faulty.

I feel like I’m missing something. Anybody understand what’s going on? The world’s gone mad.

Re: The World is Bewildering [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1637135
28/11/2019 21:54
28/11/2019 21:54
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 3
Broadstairs, Kent
R
Ronski Offline
Newbie
Ronski  Offline
Newbie
R

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 3
Broadstairs, Kent
Hmmm, does seem to be a bit of a contradiction there. I had a really bad time with my builder, and he only built the shell to watertight.

As for bi-folds I fitted my own, what's wrong with yours?

Re: The World is Bewildering [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1637136
28/11/2019 22:07
28/11/2019 22:07
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 120
.
clanger Offline
On a journey
clanger  Offline
On a journey

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 120
.
Originally Posted by MeanRedSpider

Here’s the weird bit: the builder’s solicitor is demanding I give access to the contractors to fix the issues. The solicitor is also claiming that the doors are not faulty. Anybody spot the contradiction here?


No. [/i]"The laws an ass"[i] Remember that quote? They are asking they be allowed access to fix the "issue", they are not in anyway stating that they recognise the doors are faulty. One does not follow the other. its all in the language. They will likely try and paint you as the problem if you persist in refusing access.

I sympathise

Re: The World is Bewildering [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1637138
28/11/2019 22:10
28/11/2019 22:10
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 811
Kent
C
cyborg7 Offline
Club Member 1400
cyborg7  Offline
Club Member 1400
Enjoying the ride
C

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 811
Kent
I don't know exactly where you stand (Emjay is your man), but playing devil's advocate there's a few things to consider:

1) late isn't now relevant and badly installed if corrected won't to relevant to whether the units are defective or not.
2) what is meant by faulty - something capable of being fixed / remedied on site / in-situ or something that would have to be returned to the factory?
3) in terms of damages then you've not paid for the units (which is fine) but equally that might have a bearing on whether you can reject them if the builder insists they are capable of being put right.
4) presumably the builder or someone up the supply chain has paid for the units so to be able to return them, they would need the same sort of grounds to reject them as you do. Unless this is reasonable then he'll perceive this as a risk that he'll be left holding the baby.

Probably no help whatsoever, but sometimes useful to standback. How many chances has he had. Any photos of what you think is the fault that can't be fixed. I'm a building surveyor not a lawyer so am limited on what I can comment on.

Re: The World is Bewildering [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1637154
29/11/2019 14:57
29/11/2019 14:57
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,739
Cambridge & Cotswolds
M
MeanRedSpider Offline OP
Je suis un Coupé
MeanRedSpider  Offline OP
Je suis un Coupé
M

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,739
Cambridge & Cotswolds
I’ve checked on the legal definition of faulty and my rights with regards to rejecting the windows:

Faulty is if a reasonable person considers them faulty. The factory-fitted external seals are too short and all need replacing (amongst other faults). My legal advice is that they are clearly faulty. In fact I have a long list of faults that the builder sent me after the manufacturer inspected them including inner and outer seals needing replacing, magnets needing replacing, missing parts fitted, brush seals needing gluing. I think a “reasonable person” would consider them as faults.

The delays (again, according to my legal advice) are also a reason to request a price reduction.

Im engaging a lawyer to go after the builder with a counter claim - in for a penny.

Re: The World is Bewildering [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1637156
29/11/2019 15:31
29/11/2019 15:31
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,403
Auld Reekie
Edinburgh Online content
Club Board member
Edinburgh  Online Content
Club Board member
I AM a Coop

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,403
Auld Reekie
You've been wearing your magnet again MRS - can't believe your luck rolleyes


Thanks again, Photobucket.
BumbleBee under restoration, back from paintshop!...in lockdown:(
Re: The World is Bewildering [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1637175
30/11/2019 00:36
30/11/2019 00:36
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 811
Kent
C
cyborg7 Offline
Club Member 1400
cyborg7  Offline
Club Member 1400
Enjoying the ride
C

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 811
Kent
Just for the avoidance of doubt, I wasn't trying to insinuate that you were being unreasonable by the way. From what you've said it sounds as if the faults are all fixable - new seals, missing parts, bit of glue etc. If presumably this is the case and the units have been made to order to bespoke size, then it may be difficult to reject them. I appreciate if the builder has been given enough of a chance to repair them then this is seriously frustrating. But from my limited understanding of the law any compensation is going to be based on your loss and I'd only start racking up legal fees if you think you've got a reasonable claim for something that can't be readily fixed. I'm happy to make bullets for you to fire and tell you to stick it to them and all that, but worth you questioning if that's really the best course of action here.

Re: The World is Bewildering [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1637177
30/11/2019 07:11
30/11/2019 07:11
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,739
Cambridge & Cotswolds
M
MeanRedSpider Offline OP
Je suis un Coupé
MeanRedSpider  Offline OP
Je suis un Coupé
M

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,739
Cambridge & Cotswolds
Thanks, C7. It might be that some bits can be replaced on the Nth attempt to repair them but we’re left with a sense of appalling quality and a set of bifolds should last at least, what, 10 years? If you bought a washing machine and it kept breaking down and bits falling off - washing machines are easy to fix - they’re just made up of parts: new seal here and a bit of glue there too - would you put up with it for 9 months? Maybe you would but I certainly wouldn’t nor would most people.

And, maybe I wasn’t clear, but the 5 month delay in the windows being installed was a 5 month delay in having a kitchen, hall and living room which meant my wife and daughter (being treated for leukaemia) had to remain in a rented house. My wife couldn’t get a full-time job. Rough numbers that cost us £3000 per month in costs and lost earnings. Couple that to the reason for the windows initially not arriving is that the window subcontractor lied about placing the order (which he’s admitted) and you might begin to get some sense of where my claim might lie.

There’s much much more background to this story but my point was simply: how can the bifolds not be considered faulty when they need to fix faults? It’s pretty much the dictionary definition of faulty.

Re: The World is Bewildering [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1637196
30/11/2019 21:52
30/11/2019 21:52
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 811
Kent
C
cyborg7 Offline
Club Member 1400
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Enjoying the ride
C

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 811
Kent
I certainly get the sense of the frustration MRS and can see that it's all the more unfair when your daughter and family were dealing with that too. I know I'd feel exactly the same and want to go in with all guns blazing. All I was trying to do was encourage you to take a step back and take a cold look at this. You know as well as I do that lawyers will take your money in a blink of an eye and if there's 2 of them in a court room, they can't both be right.

When you said in your original post that you felt like you were missing something then hopefully the legal advice that you're now getting will confirm whether this is indeed the case or not. I'm going to politely exit stage right as I'm sensing I'm not helping here by giving the alternative viewpoint. Hope it works out (and I do mean that sincerely - after reading your posts over the last few years and what you and your family have been through, you certainly don't need any of this aggro!)

Re: The World is Bewildering [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1637227
02/12/2019 14:08
02/12/2019 14:08
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,739
Cambridge & Cotswolds
M
MeanRedSpider Offline OP
Je suis un Coupé
MeanRedSpider  Offline OP
Je suis un Coupé
M

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,739
Cambridge & Cotswolds
Thanks, C7 - the more legal advice I get, the less I can understand what the builder (and his legal advice) is trying to do.

For example: their letter says they will be charging interest on the outstanding amount. However, his T&Cs, which they copied in the letter, says interest won’t be charged during dispute.

There’s lots more that just makes absolutely no sense.

As for the alternative view, I’ve tried discussing this on numerous (too many) occasions with the builder as I don’t want legal action but I don’t see a choice now that he’s started it - I’m certainly not going to roll over and pay him.

Re: The World is Bewildering [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1637851
30/12/2019 13:51
30/12/2019 13:51
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 554
Guildford, Surrey, UK
Punto16VT Offline
lub Member 1787
Punto16VT  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 554
Guildford, Surrey, UK
Just my 10p, but I'd take a claim to Small Claims Court. Copies of all e-mails, contracts etc. would likely make that a walk.

At times I despair of the lack of professionalism and responsibility in what passes for tradesmen these days.

Last edited by Punto16VT; 30/12/2019 13:54.

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Re: The World is Bewildering [Re: Punto16VT] #1637866
31/12/2019 18:10
31/12/2019 18:10
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,739
Cambridge & Cotswolds
M
MeanRedSpider Offline OP
Je suis un Coupé
MeanRedSpider  Offline OP
Je suis un Coupé
M

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,739
Cambridge & Cotswolds
Originally Posted by Punto16VT
Just my 10p, but I'd take a claim to Small Claims Court. Copies of all e-mails, contracts etc. would likely make that a walk.

At times I despair of the lack of professionalism and responsibility in what passes for tradesmen these days.


Unfortunately, the amount involved is beyond that of the small claims court.

Worth being aware that it’s taken longer to validate my house insurance legal cover than the time I was given (28 days) under the disputes protocol. I’ve paid a (private) solicitor to ask for an extension which has been granted.

Yup - I find I end up doing jobs that I’d happily pay someone to do simply because I’ll either get an idiot doing a crap job or I’ll wait months for one of the few people that takes pride in their work.


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