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Modern Classics #1640575
14/04/2020 11:13
14/04/2020 11:13
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 118
Bury st Edmunds, Suffolk.
B
bayliss Offline OP
Club Member 1774
bayliss  Offline OP
Club Member 1774
On a journey
B

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 118
Bury st Edmunds, Suffolk.
Front cover image ‘Best GT’s of the 90’s’ haven’t purchased a copy yet but will likely order online.

Re: Modern Classics [Re: bayliss] #1640576
14/04/2020 11:33
14/04/2020 11:33
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 52
Milton Keynes
KevinW Offline
Reaping the fruits
KevinW  Offline
Reaping the fruits

Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 52
Milton Keynes
Thanks Bayliss. Only £3.99 - ordered online


KevinW
Milton Keynes UK
Re: Modern Classics [Re: bayliss] #1640609
15/04/2020 16:07
15/04/2020 16:07
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 934
Warrington
G_Man Offline
Club Member 1656
G_Man  Offline
Club Member 1656
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 934
Warrington
Good spot Bayliss and nice to see it's got pole position on the cover! Members car anyone know?

Re: Modern Classics [Re: bayliss] #1640613
15/04/2020 20:12
15/04/2020 20:12
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,370
Lightwater, Surrey, UK
DaveG Offline
Club Member 311
DaveG  Offline
Club Member 311
Forum is my life

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,370
Lightwater, Surrey, UK
I was amazed to find a hugely increased number of e-magazines that I can download from my local library using the RB Digital app, including the aforementioned Modern Classics magazine. I've not updated the list for a long time but it now includes a large selection of car magazines from Europe and the US, maybe it's a result of the coronavirus lockdown, but worth checking out! If only I were furloughed I would have the time to read them all frown


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Modern Classics [Re: G_Man] #1640634
17/04/2020 11:23
17/04/2020 11:23
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,661
Aldershot
PeteP Offline
Club Member 005
PeteP  Offline
Club Member 005
Forum veteran

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,661
Aldershot
Originally Posted by G_Man
Good spot Bayliss and nice to see it's got pole position on the cover! Members car anyone know?


Yes it belongs to one of our club members.


16VT and X1/9 1500
Re: Modern Classics [Re: bayliss] #1640645
18/04/2020 17:24
18/04/2020 17:24
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 934
Warrington
G_Man Offline
Club Member 1656
G_Man  Offline
Club Member 1656
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 934
Warrington
Interesting that they've placed the coupe in the 'GT' bracket. Not the category I'd have placed it to be honest .. confused

Last edited by G_Man; 18/04/2020 17:24.
Re: Modern Classics [Re: bayliss] #1640650
18/04/2020 20:58
18/04/2020 20:58
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 386
France
french_coupe Offline
Club member 773
french_coupe  Offline
Club member 773
Making a profit

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 386
France
I think the GT category is a good choice. What would you describe the car category as, out of interest?
I like it as a GT. 2 doors, 4 seats, A/C. Seems a perfect fit.
Certainly not an out and out sports car and thank god, not a family car.


lost in space
Re: Modern Classics [Re: french_coupe] #1640663
19/04/2020 20:02
19/04/2020 20:02
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 934
Warrington
G_Man Offline
Club Member 1656
G_Man  Offline
Club Member 1656
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 934
Warrington
Combination of performance and luxury for long distance driving. Either 2 x seater or 2 + 2. Common set up front engine and rwd (wiki - but quite accurate imho). Does the coupe tick many of these boxes? Let's face it the coupe is a family friendly, usefully booted shopping trolley with a decent dollop of performace in an eye catching Italian wrapping. A GT? Nope....soz wink

Last edited by G_Man; 19/04/2020 20:04.
Re: Modern Classics [Re: bayliss] #1640679
20/04/2020 16:15
20/04/2020 16:15
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 52
Milton Keynes
KevinW Offline
Reaping the fruits
KevinW  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 52
Milton Keynes
According to Wikipedia:

A grand tourer (GT) is a type of sports car that is designed for high speed and long-distance driving, due to a combination of performance and luxury attributes.

Yes I would definitely agree. Its very relaxed at speed and (assuming the exhaust is standard and not 'noise enhanced'). Certainly more GT than my Ford Puma Black!


Last edited by KevinW; 20/04/2020 16:17.

KevinW
Milton Keynes UK
Re: Modern Classics [Re: KevinW] #1640680
20/04/2020 16:40
20/04/2020 16:40
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 934
Warrington
G_Man Offline
Club Member 1656
G_Man  Offline
Club Member 1656
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 934
Warrington
C'mon behave now - luxury?? What are the GT contemporaries for the coupe? Last knockings of the XJS, XK8, DB7 and Maserati 3200GT to name a few. I think my case rests your honour.. laugh

Re: Modern Classics [Re: bayliss] #1640689
21/04/2020 06:35
21/04/2020 06:35
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,225
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
Club member 1482
andyps  Offline
Club member 1482
My job on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,225
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
I've always tended to think of the Coupe as more of a GT than sports car. Also feel that within the Fiat group the Coupe was effectively replaced by a car with an Alfa badge that was simply called GT. It is sporty, but not really a sports car.


Andy

[Linked Image]
Re: Modern Classics [Re: bayliss] #1640692
21/04/2020 10:06
21/04/2020 10:06
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 854
Germany
neil_r Offline
Enjoying the ride
neil_r  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 854
Germany
What were the other categories that I could have been placed in?

For the Turbo, GT is probably fine. Sports cars would probably need to handle a bit more sharply. The NAs are a little too slow to be real GTs. They are not even close to effortless enough.

Luxury? Probably OK for the price they were originally sold at but they are rather lightly made to feel like a top-notch car. Thin floors, and fairly standard quality fittings makes it hard to pull of the luxury bit.

But they are stylish cars that have aged really well (excluding the ones that have corroded away). Almost timeless. That's what makes them desirable.


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Modern Classics [Re: neil_r] #1640716
22/04/2020 16:41
22/04/2020 16:41
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 32,406
Hemel in the Hempstead
barnacle Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle  Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 32,406
Hemel in the Hempstead
Originally Posted by neil_r
The NAs are a little too slow to be real GTs. They are not even close to effortless enough.


How do you define 'effortless', Neil? From Calais to Berlin it's top gear all the way, bar the occasional fuel stop. I'm having difficulty working out where the difficulty is.

Neil


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! [b]Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide[/b] <-- clicky!
Re: Modern Classics [Re: bayliss] #1640722
22/04/2020 19:28
22/04/2020 19:28
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,345
Kent
Submariner Offline
My job on the forum
Submariner  Offline
My job on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,345
Kent
I see the 20vt/16vt as a definite GT car, Grand Touring because it is a coupe with bespoke styling, enough power for effortless cruising and overtakes,good fuel range/mpg, comfortable for up to 4 persons, has decent luggage capacity. Comfort and performance = a Grand Tourer.

Contemporaries for the Coupe as a GT include the GTV (Grand Touring Vitesse) which given it's name was seen and marketed as a fast GT type car by AR.

Last edited by Submariner; 22/04/2020 19:36.
Re: Modern Classics [Re: bayliss] #1640748
24/04/2020 15:24
24/04/2020 15:24
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 854
Germany
neil_r Offline
Enjoying the ride
neil_r  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 854
Germany
Modern cars are pretty fast in comparison these days so there is no reserve when others are being aggressive.

When being relaxed and just cruising in not too much traffic it's really fine. Compare it to my other GT, which is probably more of a traditional GT, the FIAT can be quite a lot more work and less relaxing, just like any other car without that much power. A GT is supposed to cover distances with ease. A 140 bhp Coupe doesn't always manage the ease. However, it wasn't priced like a real GT, so I'm not complaining, just saying that real GTs have always offered a little more.

Btw, just been to check over my 20V. It's been derusted and completely resprayed. Looks really good again. It gets a final polish and we pick it up next week. Next port is a complete suspension refresh. Like I said before, we still like ours very much, and take the "difficulties" as part of the deal.


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Modern Classics [Re: bayliss] #1640835
28/04/2020 16:46
28/04/2020 16:46
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 52
Milton Keynes
KevinW Offline
Reaping the fruits
KevinW  Offline
Reaping the fruits

Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 52
Milton Keynes
At the end of the day Luxury can mean different things to different people. At the time it was released it was indeed a highly specked car but not in the 'no expense spared category' as it was meant to be an affordable luxury GT. I would doubt if many of the surviving examples can be thought of as luxury against current releases but that's really not the point of owning this car. Its a car that is spirited to drive and rewards with a lot of bespoke driving pleasure.

If you are lucky enough to own one in very good condition, or at least with a few optional extras and everything works (and the suspension is either largely replaced or a low mileage car) then you have a fair degree of 'luxury' and can appreciate how these cars were meant to drive. By the time they are well into the 100K miles, had several owners messed around with then the GT nature is sadly often a bit compromised. A well maintained, treasured 20VT (perhaps with sensible upgrades but standard exhaust) is a rare but still remarkable beast that is not tiring at all over very long journeys. Just put a cheap or performance exhaust on and it becomes a lot more tiring, for instance, but people will 'fiddle' with the spec of their cars for fun, even if it often detracts from 'luxury driving' and the result is most of these cars are no longer recognised as 'luxury' but rather just an 'over-tweaked has-been'.

Last edited by KevinW; 29/04/2020 10:52.

KevinW
Milton Keynes UK
Re: Modern Classics [Re: bayliss] #1640836
28/04/2020 17:26
28/04/2020 17:26
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 450
Dorchester
R
respace Offline
Enjoying the ride
respace  Offline
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R

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 450
Dorchester
I think it a bit sad that in what was a very positive piece we end up arguing over whether its a GT or not. It was in some some formidable company and in my reading was judged 2nd, by motoring journalists using their, unbiased criteria and that's really great.
Our views are somewhat blinkered, positively or negatively.

Re: Modern Classics [Re: respace] #1640838
28/04/2020 17:37
28/04/2020 17:37
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 934
Warrington
G_Man Offline
Club Member 1656
G_Man  Offline
Club Member 1656
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 934
Warrington
Yup - sorry I mentioned it now frown Let's not come to blows over this at the July meet laugh (If it goes ahead that is)

Re: Modern Classics [Re: G_Man] #1640843
29/04/2020 00:18
29/04/2020 00:18
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,563
J
JKD Offline
Forum is my job
JKD  Offline
Forum is my job
J

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,563
The Coop is definitely a GT.

It's closest contemporary was the GTV.

And a car that can be seen as the Coop's spiritual successor is the Alfa Romeo GT.

Fiat should have just called it the Fiat GT!

Re: Modern Classics [Re: KevinW] #1640850
29/04/2020 15:31
29/04/2020 15:31
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,345
Kent
Submariner Offline
My job on the forum
Submariner  Offline
My job on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,345
Kent
Originally Posted by KevinW
At the end of the day Luxury can mean different things to different people. At the time it was released it was indeed a highly specked car but not in the 'no expense spared category' as it was meant to be an affordable luxury GT. I would doubt if many of the surviving examples can be thought of as luxury against current releases but that's really not the point of owning this car. Its a car that is spirited to drive and rewards with a lot of bespoke driving pleasure.

If you are lucky enough to own one in very good condition, or at least with a few optional extras and everything works (and the suspension is either largely replaced or a low mileage car) then you have a fair degree of 'luxury' and can appreciate how these cars were meant to drive. By the time they are well into the 100K miles, had several owners messed around with then the GT nature is sadly often a bit compromised. A well maintained, treasured 20VT (perhaps with sensible upgrades but standard exhaust) is a rare but still remarkable beast that is not tiring at all over very long journeys. Just put a cheap or performance exhaust on and it becomes a lot more tiring, for instance, but people will 'fiddle' with the spec of their cars for fun, even if it often detracts from 'luxury driving' and the result is most of these cars are no longer recognised as 'luxury' but rather just an 'over-tweaked has-been'.


Exhausts on the Coupes appear to be your penchant Kevin?

Can't see a problem with this thread it's a debate...ownership of the Coupe puts us in a better position to debate it's merits more so than many so called motoring journalists.

Last edited by Submariner; 30/04/2020 18:21.
Re: Modern Classics [Re: Submariner] #1640858
29/04/2020 21:06
29/04/2020 21:06
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 52
Milton Keynes
KevinW Offline
Reaping the fruits
KevinW  Offline
Reaping the fruits

Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 52
Milton Keynes
Ha ha yes indeed...the bane of my life! Agreed just sharing opinions is interesting.

Last edited by KevinW; 29/04/2020 21:28.

KevinW
Milton Keynes UK
Re: Modern Classics [Re: bayliss] #1640881
30/04/2020 18:20
30/04/2020 18:20
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,345
Kent
Submariner Offline
My job on the forum
Submariner  Offline
My job on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,345
Kent
laugh


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