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Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
So how far will I get? #1665605
06/06/2023 08:21
06/06/2023 08:21
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Berlin
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Berlin
Since 2019 my coupe has done a grand total of sixty miles, from dry storage to Joe's to MOT station and back a couple of times.

Now it's unSORNed, taxed, tested, and insured. On Saturday it leaves Joe's to go to Berlin laugh

Sweepstake on how far it gets? tongue

Neil


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665607
06/06/2023 08:30
06/06/2023 08:30
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Sandhurst
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All the way there without issue smile


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665608
06/06/2023 08:32
06/06/2023 08:32
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Berlin
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Berlin
And back in three months!


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Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665613
06/06/2023 14:44
06/06/2023 14:44
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 482
Cleveland
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P

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Cleveland
Have a brilliant journey, I'm really envious.

Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665616
06/06/2023 14:51
06/06/2023 14:51
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Pothole City
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It's a well established fact that coupe reliability is inversely proportional to how many times the car has been at a Fiat dealer, so I'm sure yours will be fine. smile

Re: So how far will I get? [Re: GrahamL] #1665621
06/06/2023 16:02
06/06/2023 16:02
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Originally Posted by GrahamL
It's a well established fact that coupe reliability is inversely proportional to how many times the car has been at a Fiat dealer, so I'm sure yours will be fine. smile


That was funny laugh

Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665624
06/06/2023 17:12
06/06/2023 17:12
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 909
Dorchester
R
respace Offline
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Dorchester
You don't mention how it's getting there, "it leaves", how far "it gets" no mention of it being driven, suspect it's a catch question.

Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665626
06/06/2023 18:02
06/06/2023 18:02
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 961
Behind Enemy Lines
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Behind Enemy Lines
Bet it goes even better on the 1st tank of FRESH fuel!

Enjoy the journey! A well deserved stein when you get there!!

MM

Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665645
06/06/2023 21:27
06/06/2023 21:27
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,403
Berlin
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Berlin
Just to clarify: I'm driving it out of Joe's yard and the all the way to Berlin stopping only at Tesco's (for high concentrate fruit squash); at Morrisons (for large jars of Marmite and Lea and Perrins) and either for proper English cheese, and at a hotel at Dover. And no doubt about three more filling stations than the diesel used to take, or the French Thing (tm) that does fifty to the gallon.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: So how far will I get? [Re: Master_Mariner] #1665648
07/06/2023 08:53
07/06/2023 08:53
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Originally Posted by Master_Mariner
Bet it goes even better on the 1st tank of FRESH fuel!

Enjoy the journey! A well deserved stein when you get there!!

MM


Bad fuel was the only fail on the MOT test so fresh already refilled for the pass.

Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665670
07/06/2023 17:58
07/06/2023 17:58
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 909
Dorchester
R
respace Offline
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Dorchester
At least it won't get stolen with marmite on board.

Re: So how far will I get? [Re: respace] #1665671
07/06/2023 18:31
07/06/2023 18:31
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,829
Haslemere, Surrey
M
Mark_S Offline
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M

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Haslemere, Surrey
It will run like a dream, no issues


997 C4S
Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665673
08/06/2023 07:39
08/06/2023 07:39
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,403
Berlin
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Berlin
It's done 186k miles already, and it's done the trip before many times, I have no worries!

But I'm running out of marmite and they only sell it here in tiny little jars that cost a fortune and only do half a dozen slices of toast.

Neil


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665677
08/06/2023 09:03
08/06/2023 09:03
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Posts: 909
Dorchester
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Dorchester
I always thought (probably not the first to do so) that marmite would be a good name for a broomie (yellow and black) few things divide opinion as much as coops and marmite.

Incidently I read in my local rag that Neil Barnes is opening a photography gallery in Bridport, Dorset, right opposite the old Beach and Barnacle restaurant! sounds like you are going to be busy!

Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665678
08/06/2023 11:15
08/06/2023 11:15
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,403
Berlin
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Berlin
Apparently I am a man of many parts! laugh


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Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: So how far will I get? [Re: respace] #1665680
08/06/2023 13:08
08/06/2023 13:08
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,015
Auld Reekie
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Originally Posted by respace
I always thought (probably not the first to do so) that marmite would be a good name for a broomie (yellow and black)



Nooo...definitely not! laugh

Neil - you will arrive home without incident I am certain smile


BumbleBee back:)
Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665681
08/06/2023 16:09
08/06/2023 16:09
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 909
Dorchester
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Dorchester
Originally Posted by barnacle
Apparently I am a man of many parts! laugh


Hope you don't need too many, safe journey.

Re: So how far will I get? [Re: Edinburgh] #1665683
08/06/2023 17:42
08/06/2023 17:42
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Dorchester
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Dorchester
Originally Posted by Edinburgh
Originally Posted by respace
I always thought (probably not the first to do so) that marmite would be a good name for a broomie (yellow and black)



Nooo...definitely not! laugh

Sorry Simon, Bumbles sounds better! Buzzier

Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665704
10/06/2023 19:34
10/06/2023 19:34
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,403
Berlin
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Berlin
Well it's got to Ashford, 200 miles in 22 litres


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Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665706
10/06/2023 20:33
10/06/2023 20:33
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 17
Southampton
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Southampton
&#128077;

Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665712
11/06/2023 19:59
11/06/2023 19:59
Joined: Dec 2005
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Berlin
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Berlin
So there was a small amount of concern: after four hundred miles though France, Belgium, Holland, and Germany, the coupe started losing power in what felt very like fuel starvation, though it didn't stop on me and kept moving through an amazing diversion from the motorway to a filling station that turned out to be closed with no obvious way back to the motorway - though I wasn't very happy at going back on with the compromised power; fifty miles an hour on an autobahn isn't a joke!

Although filling took only 47 litres, so the tank was nowhere near empty, filling up restored everything to health and happiness.

As a side note, since the old fuel was drained to replace with new to meet the emissions test, the car has required two primes of the pump before it will start. It's likely that these two faults are connected, and I agree with Joe's suggestion that something is unwell around the swirl pot plumbing.

So that's first on the list; the next two issues are the windows (there's an intermittent connection somewhere around the control unit) and the speedo, which likes to stick at sixty and is probable a soldering issue. After that, I'll see if I can find out why the wipers stop moving when they squirt (and I might do something about getting a single wipe somehow, though I haven't thought that through yet. Might look at rearranging the squirter jets too). The starter didn't want to for the first couple of tries yesterday morning, though it's been fine since... might live with that since it's such a pain to get to!

Other than that: the pressures and temperatures have been spot on throughout, including general bimbling along, traffic jams, and a little high speed running. One problem with the coupe: whenever anyone passed me, they slowed down in my blind spot to have a good look laugh

Neil

p.s. The Marmite's ok, but the cheese didn't enjoy the temperatures. We'll see what it's like after it cools down in the fridge. Temperatures outside were over thirty all day; we got through nine half-litre bottles of water and a litre of coke zero, as well as drinks at stops en route.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665713
11/06/2023 21:54
11/06/2023 21:54
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Auld Reekie
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Good to hear you made it s&s Neil


BumbleBee back:)
Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665723
13/06/2023 08:30
13/06/2023 08:30
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,282
Sandhurst
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Sandhurst
Told you that you would make it there smile But with the fuel issue, I don't know what was done to get the old fuel out, but it could be that the small pipe between the fuel pump and the fuel holder could have a tiny split in it, hence why it has taken longer to prime in the morning and that a fuel tank of fuel made the difference.


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665724
13/06/2023 10:31
13/06/2023 10:31
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Berlin
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Berlin
I suspect something similar, but it's been so long since I've been in a fuel tank that I can't visualise it. I'll get in there as soon as I can.


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Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665725
13/06/2023 10:45
13/06/2023 10:45
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Originally Posted by barnacle
I suspect something similar, but it's been so long since I've been in a fuel tank that I can't visualise it. I'll get in there as soon as I can.


Page 170 wink

Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665726
13/06/2023 11:08
13/06/2023 11:08
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Pothole City
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The fuel rail should remain pressurised so if it's losing pressure overnight via a leaking injector or fuel returning to the tank (leaking pressure regulator, or is there some kind of NRV somewhere?) then it needs the double priming thing to fully re-pressurise it ready for starting.

Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665797
17/06/2023 12:25
17/06/2023 12:25
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,403
Berlin
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Berlin
Ok, I took the fuel pump out for inspection this morning. Here's a quick how-to which might get moved to the right place later laugh

OBVIOUS SAFETY WARNING - NO NAKED FLAMES, NO SOURCES OF IGNITION, NO SMOKING, NO VAPING

How the swirl pot works: Fuel is pumped at high pressure - five bar or so - to pressurise the fuel system. That's regulated by the fuel regulator into the fuel rail at a fixed pressure above the manifold pressure - so the ECU has a little less work to do; it simplifies the fuel delivery calculations. What is left over goes back to the fuel pump - so if you've got your boot down, the manifold pressure is high but there isn't a lot of fuel left over to go back to the tank; at idle, almost all the fuel goes back.

That return fuel goes into the bottom of the swirl pot through a tiny jet, which allows it to collect more fuel as it goes past (there's a small vent in the bottom of the swirl pot) and keep the swirl pot full of fuel. The top of the swirl pot is open to the tank. The pump is in the swirl pot and has to be submerged in order to work, and the job of the swirl pot is to make sure it's covered at all times.

Obviously, if the fuel level in the tank is over the top of the swirl pot, it's just going to fill from above. Once the fuel level gets down to that point though, the only way to fill the swirl pot is via the vent at the bottom being pumped by the returning fuel. As long as that's working, then everything should be fine.

In my case, I was getting fuel starvation at about 1/3-1/4 of a tank (I put 40 litres in afterwards) with all the usual symptoms: wouldn't rev with no load, missing while moving, and getting worse...

  • Remove the two electrical connections: pump power and fuel gauge. They need the clip on the side - easily visible - to be pushed away from the body with a screwdriver or similar.
  • Remove the fuel go and return connections. Beware: the plastic under there is likely thirty years old and fragile! Squeeze in the tabs and pull gently while twisting.
  • Remove the remaining tank vent pipe - I think it goes to the charcoal canister - by removing the 8mm nut and twisting/pulling up. There's an o-ring there that will want to hang on.
  • Remove the lock ring. You'll need a rubber hammer and something like a wide screwdriver to start things turning. Again, treat it gently; you don't want to chip off the twist grips and you certainly don't want to break it.
  • Lift the pump partway out of the tank. It won't come all the way immediately because it doesn't fit through the rubber seal, so...
  • Remove the rubber seal. It sort of lifts out but it has a ridge that keeps it in place, so you need to fold it slightly to get it out. Don't drop it in the tank - it will come out with the pump now but best to keep a grip on it.
  • Pull the pump all the way out. You'll need to juggle it and turn it because (on mine at least) the swirl pot is the same diameter as the hole. Most of the petrol in the swirl pot will slowly drain out through the bottom vent but you can tip it to empty most of the fuel back into the tank


When I inspected the pump there was nothing obviously wrong. I cleaned up everything and discovered that when I blew down the return pipe it hooted at me, which didn't feel right. There's a tiny green jet down there with no obvious way to remove it so I blasted it with WD40; after that the WD40 appeared within the swirl pot and and when blowing - which felt easier - there was no hoot. So perhaps I had something stuck in that jet?

Reassembly is, in the famous words, a reversal of the above procedure. The only tricky (hah!) bit is getting the sealing ring back in place... you have to have the swirl pot below it and the rest of the unit above it; you *can't* put the seal on the pump body and push it into place because the ridge stops it. I suspect it's a lot easier if the tank is on the floor because the access is terrible through the boot floor.

Anyway, the car started without issue once everything was pressurised again; let's see what happens!


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665798
17/06/2023 13:45
17/06/2023 13:45
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,015
Auld Reekie
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"Nice one" as they say Neil; we'll get Kelv onto its inclusion in the Howto section.

I used a hammer on the end of a block of wood with an appropriately-shaped end to minimise damage to the ridges on the screw-cap as I thought something metal might damage them.


BumbleBee back:)
Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665799
17/06/2023 14:17
17/06/2023 14:17
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,403
Berlin
barnacle Offline OP
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Berlin
Pics of the top of the fuel pump showing the two electrical connections and the lock ring (I already removed the fuel and bleed lines); the base of the pump showing the jet (green, centre); the necessary tools; and a proof that the car is actually here laugh

Neil

Attached Files
Pump base and jet.jpg (166 downloads)
Tool kit.jpg (161 downloads)

[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: So how far will I get? [Re: barnacle] #1665817
18/06/2023 20:22
18/06/2023 20:22
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,403
Berlin
barnacle Offline OP
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Berlin
Hmm. Doesn't appear to have made any difference to the multi-prime starting. Don't know yet if the pump still works at low fuel levels, maybe I need a new pump/assembly.


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Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
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