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Re: New Turbo [Re: clanger] #1672669
01/07/2024 10:09
01/07/2024 10:09
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Posts: 30
Weymouth
L
Lloyd Offline
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L

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Weymouth
fair enough pal.

Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672670
01/07/2024 11:00
01/07/2024 11:00
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 17,036
Auld Reekie
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Hi Lloyd, welcome to the forum, you sound like a busy man, I guess your coop is garaged to be able to undertake all this work or do you have a trusted place who'll take it on?

As for rusted floors it's sadly a feature of these older cars and sloppy jack-placement is a nightmare to avoid frown


BumbleBee carer smile
Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672671
01/07/2024 11:28
01/07/2024 11:28
Joined: Jun 2024
Posts: 30
Weymouth
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Lloyd Offline
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morning pal, cheers, well, its actually my dailey, i got it off a chap in 2021, he said he let the car sit for years as he had plan on doing track days but never bothered, but said he had the cambelt done in November 2020, so the paints rough as hell, and the floor was somewhat rusty,
now the rust has gone right through after doing my last oil change, oddly enough the boot area has not suffered the usual issues as is absolutely mint, and to keep it that way i soaked it all in wd40 then dryed it out thoroughly and put 2 layers of primer over it all inside, the outside is also mint with minor surface rust on the tank straps.

my planet sized predicament now is, i booked the car in with joe for july 10th originally (3 hour drive away) to get the cambelt n pump, manifold, oil pump seal, steering belt kit done with new stage 3 hybrid from turbo technics as my current turbo is dripping coolant and oil from the centre of the cartridge on cold start and after a drive.

so i did my oil change 2 weeks ago to find the rusted areas have turned into holes after jacking it up, and my MOT IS IN AUGUST.....

so. yeh, big problems,
the garage i go to do pass it with no cat in and the turbo was only dripping a little oil last time and marked it as advisory, so im praying that they ignore it dripping both liquids this time as im now having to spend the money i would of used for the cambelt and turbo etc on the floor getting welded.

the garage that does the mots and work have let me keep the spare low mileage engine with them for zero cost, but thats for a few years in the future when this engine snuffs it, i want to keep thsi one going as long as possible, but i have no clue as to the mileage of the current one as the speedo isnt the OG plus one, also, where the car was a car d, the whole outer skin of my drivers door is all filler, probablyaking the door 1.5CMS if not more..thicker.....its clearly ALL filler aswell as my boot lid being half filler.

Last edited by Lloyd; 01/07/2024 11:33.
Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672672
01/07/2024 12:35
01/07/2024 12:35
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born in Italy I live in German...
carmine Online content OP
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yes, as Lloyd said.
I also bought it directly from America in the end with shipping to Germany and taxes it cost me around €260.
it is available in t2 and t3.
I purchased a t2 because last year I purchased a new, slightly larger turbo (300hp) and it is a t2.

The manifolds are really excellent, they fit the head perfectly, the only problem is that these manifolds are designed to be used with an external wastegate, the SPA manifold has a 45° angle if you look at the turbo flange and the cylinder head ports while the original manifold has the turbo flange inclined about 15° outwards, this creates enough space to install an original turbo with integrated wastegate, the problem itself is the wastegate actuator which takes up a lot of space.

other drawbacks are: the assembly of the SPA manifold should be carried out with the support that holds the a/c pump the pump serves the alternator OUTSIDE the engine otherwise you don't have the space to insert the manifold, I managed to install it with this too inside but it was a nightmare, really a matter of 2-3 millimetres. yet another: the SPA manifold also changes the position of the turbo which will move about 2 cm closer to the oil filter, thus also having to modify the curve of the Downpipe. In any case, I believe that the SPA is a good, very robust manifold which I believe can easily withstand many hp and exclude breakages like the original. Two Internet sites were still offering the original manifold, one for 750 pounds and another for 1500 Euros, this made me think that perhaps in a couple of years I would have to repair them by welding them, so I opted for SPA.

So far I have been able to install the turbo by making a custom bracket to hold the actuator. I strongly advise anyone who wants to install the SPA manifold with a normal turbo to carefully examine the situation, a solution would be to install an adapter with a 15° inclination between the manifold and the turbo. This consists of 2 flanges t2 to t2 (impossible to find) or t2 to t3 (very popular) with a piece of inclined tube welded in the center, this will give you enough space between the block and the turbo but will lower the position of the turbo by about 10cm.

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Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672673
01/07/2024 12:36
01/07/2024 12:36
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.

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Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672674
01/07/2024 12:38
01/07/2024 12:38
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Attached Files
Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672675
01/07/2024 12:50
01/07/2024 12:50
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Posts: 30
Weymouth
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Weymouth
getting a new stage 3 hybrid from turbo technics for the stock manifold setup and replacement stock manifold this year and using the spa manifold for the big power spare engine build, my current setup is good for 420bhp but the rods and pistons wont take that much and i dont know the mileage of my current engine.
wish i could upload pics but wont let me

Last edited by Lloyd; 01/07/2024 12:53.
Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672676
01/07/2024 12:52
01/07/2024 12:52
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Weymouth
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my wastegate will be out the bonnet probably, unless i get a block off plate and use internal gated turbo. but given i want the 3077??...or 3070..? or the 3582 im not sure thats an option.
can we use twin scroll turbos on our single scroll manifolds?

Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672717
01/07/2024 23:30
01/07/2024 23:30
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carmine Online content OP
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Greetings.
I forgot to clarify that the photos of the manifold are between a SPA of course it is between one (not original fiat) but with the same shape as the original.
This is the manifold that I found on the car when I purchased it, about 2 years ago when I had to carry out some work on the cylinder head (bend valves/service belt which slipped)
I noticed that they were broken, no longer having a large budget available at that time due to the cylinder head I made the huge mistake of buying this kind of manifold again (shitty steel) these seemed to be a little better in structure than the ones in the photo above well... about 3000 km of driving and a month ago when I wanted to install my new turbo I realize that this one is broken!!!
what I mean to say is that I was also warned at the time by the forum that those manifolds were rubbish but I had no choice, so to speak... so I hope this discussion is a warning to anyone who wants to buy these "steel" manifolds? "
Believe in the forum is in the experience of other users who have already had the problem.
I hope that the SPA manifolds can be a good alternative to the original which, as we know, I believe Fiat has already overhauled it 3 times in the production time and in the end they will crack anyway, they can be heated efficiently, but not indefinitely.

Attached Files
Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672718
01/07/2024 23:32
01/07/2024 23:32
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carmine Online content OP
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here are the horror photos...

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Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672719
01/07/2024 23:33
01/07/2024 23:33
Joined: May 2018
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carmine Online content OP
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Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672737
02/07/2024 18:29
02/07/2024 18:29
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 314
Free State of Jones
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Thanks Carmine. I will check my manifold over this winter and make a decision on a repair or SPA replacement thumb


E85
Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672784
05/07/2024 07:25
05/07/2024 07:25
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 105
Norwich
Gigli Offline
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Norwich
This doesn’t fill me with great optimism. I was recently recommended one of the cheaper manifolds from this link

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/33256774...r=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I take it they’re not recommended, if so I can possibly send it back. Yes I paid import charge which I guess I’ll lose.

Is there a link for a better version. T.I.A

Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672786
05/07/2024 12:25
05/07/2024 12:25
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carmine Online content OP
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https://www.bielstein.com/Auspuffkruemmer-coupe-Fiat-20-V-Turbo-5-Zylinder



https://www.protoxide.eu/de/auspuff...-turbo-20v-edelstahl-auspuffkrummer.html


there would still be these options but... you have to look at the budget, not the cheap ones. and are only on request.
This is why I opted for SPA, less cost but more work and modifications.

Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672787
05/07/2024 17:53
05/07/2024 17:53
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Norwich
Gigli Offline
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Norwich
Originally Posted by carmine
https://www.bielstein.com/Auspuffkruemmer-coupe-Fiat-20-V-Turbo-5-Zylinder



https://www.protoxide.eu/de/auspuff...-turbo-20v-edelstahl-auspuffkrummer.html


there would still be these options but... you have to look at the budget, not the cheap ones. and are only on request.
This is why I opted for SPA, less cost but more work and modifications.



Thank you

Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672801
07/07/2024 20:09
07/07/2024 20:09
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carmine Online content OP
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Greetings.

Update: I managed to install the turbo (I hope I never have to dismantle it again!) and it was...complicated, however I managed to get on with the job, the new oil radiator with the new hoses were also installed (thanks Joe ).

Now I just have to rack my brain and regain my composure for the installation of the downpipe.

I have an embarrassing question to say the least... can you remove the oil filter without draining it first?
having the front of the car raised about 40cm from the ground, it is clear that the filter oil will go to the ground but what about the rest? the majority is now deposited in the cup.

Thank you.

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Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672802
07/07/2024 20:27
07/07/2024 20:27
Joined: Dec 2005
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Drakelow
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Drakelow
Yes, you can unscrew the filter first. You will just get oil around the aluminium parts leaking to the ground.

I’ve the cup wrench type tool makes removing the filter easier. When fitting the new filter make sure it’s really tight as they work loose over a short period of time.

Cheers Jamie


She's alive!
Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672803
07/07/2024 22:00
07/07/2024 22:00
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Yes, I also got a suitcase with about 24 different socket wrenches for the oil filter, I will go back to the original short filter, because I need more space for the downpipe now, that's why I asked if only the filter can be removed, I don't want to change the oil, at only 3000km

Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672812
09/07/2024 16:38
09/07/2024 16:38
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carmine Online content OP
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Greetings.
I thought I wouldn't open any more threads because in the end it's all connected in this, I wanted to ask if you have any advice/ideas, I would like to replace this silicone tube in the photo with something heat resistant like aluminum etc.
I would like to do this because having the SPA collectors I will no longer have a heat shield and all the heat will go there.
Thank you.

Attached Files
Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672814
09/07/2024 18:26
09/07/2024 18:26
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Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
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Drakelow
I’m sure you could get a ‘hard’ pipe made, that has a nut and union at the manifold end with a spigot figment at the alternator end.

I’d try a local pipe firm to make it for you

Cheers Jamie


She's alive!
Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672817
09/07/2024 21:48
09/07/2024 21:48
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carmine Online content OP
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Greetings.
Are there any fittings that fit these ends? wow I didn't know, I was thinking of putting an aluminum tube connecting the ends with short pieces of silicone tube but I will always have soft parts so to speak.
would you have any links I have photos regarding these fittings?

Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672818
09/07/2024 22:50
09/07/2024 22:50
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Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
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Drakelow
I’d guess a hydraulic male and female fitting around an inch would be the kind of thing I’d look at.

The spigot that comes out of the existing aluminium water rail I’m sure is threaded, so presume you could adapt that point to then make your male/female connection. The other end would still connect via the rubber hose so nice and easy

Cheers Jamie


She's alive!
Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672819
09/07/2024 23:12
09/07/2024 23:12
Joined: May 2018
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carmine Online content OP
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yes, I've always wondered how this nozzle is attached to the water rail, if anyone can confirm that it would be wonderful.

Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672820
10/07/2024 07:40
10/07/2024 07:40
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Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
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Drakelow
I’d say as you’ve got to take it off for the manifold job, you could see if it releases

Worse case a fabrication place could cut part of the end off and adapt it like I suggested. I don’t think it’s that technical, more to find the right place to make the pipe for you

Cheers Jamie


She's alive!
Re: New Turbo [Re: carmine] #1672823
10/07/2024 10:34
10/07/2024 10:34
Joined: May 2018
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born in Italy I live in German...
carmine Online content OP
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that's right, finding the right place is a challenge here

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