Begbieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?!!!

I have just sent off six 16vt/Integrale injectors to be ultrasonically cleaned and flow tested. Four were from the same engine (same serial numbers on each injector) and the other two are randoms. Anyway, I have just been advised that while the spray pattern is good on them all two, maybe three, have an offset spray i.e. different to the others. Is this normal? Given that I need 5 injectors does it matter the angle of spray as long as the pattern and flow is good i.e. it atomises perfectly?

hmmmmmm I`ve just checked the serial no. on my 4 (didn`t even know they had one until you mentioned it ) they are all the same which is...2995/01.
Tell us more beggars

Flea are they all beige coloured ?,early Integrale ones only have one pintel, I think the later integrale and 16VT ones have 3/4,they flow the same amount of fuel ,but different spray pattern

I'm no injector expert but i'd say its very important.

You want the spray pattern to go through the inlet and over the valve into the clyinder as spray or mist of fuel.

If the angle's wrong and it hits the valve or inlet manifold wall then your not going to get atomised fuel, you'll just get a dribble of fuel.

Yeh they are all beige with 4 pintles. I'll get a more detailed report by the end of the day and the engineer said the spray angle may change straighten once they have finished with them. I think as long as they are flowing and atomising correctly then they are good to use but it's always nice to know for sure

Right the one with the 4 pintels are the coupe 16vt / EVO 2 injectors and are beige in colour, but as Jimbo says i would want them to be spraying all the same way and with the same amount.

The integrale 16v / EVO 1 injectors are green in colour and have a single pintel spray pattern.

I have used both injectors in my car and couldn't tell the difference bewteen the 2.

And for anyone else reading this, i have 4 integrale injectors for sale

I would imagine the ones with teh 4 pintels would be better at spreading the liquid into a mist/gaseous form and thus better for combustion.

Also im not sure but i thought the heat from the engine helped vapourise the fuel more, but this could be more on Direct Injection engines and not indirect injection engines.. Basically as the petrol hits the warm/hot metal/air it vapopurises the fuel so better mixture and combustion

how much did you get them done for in the end flea? mine need doing now.

I'd reccomend using 5 the same, but sure engineers will advice. Main thing is that they all flow the same fuel!

I'm sure somewhere I heard the 16vt ones were better but stand to be corrected

the 4 pintle spray was different as the manifolds ore different between 16v's the 4 spray are closer to the valve, and probably have a wider angle spray. Flea this is the problem with second hand injectors I bought 6 to get 4 that matched. You too will need to do the same, for some reason these injectors are faulty of damaged. of course you could use them, but if something goes wrong you know where to point the finger; and that would be in the back of your head. Next stage find 2 more and have those tested.

rich

You need 5 that are exactly the same type because the two types might flow the same max, but will definitely not flow the same across the whole pressure and duty range.

Also you will lose power if you are not looking at the split-pattern ones (like the std 20VT ones) as they offer much cleaner delivery into the cylinders, so the atomisation is better. Even the angle of the split is important as it is matched to the inlet manifold length and valve positions.

John

I have the report back which you can view below

Injector Report

As you can see, all injectors are in good condition in terms of flow and leak test the only concern being that two have a 90 degree spray pattern difference. As I mentioned before, 4 injectors are from the same car i.e. all same serial number, and there are two odd injectors. However, the four injectors with the same spray angle are NOT the same four from the one engine... only three are and one of the odd injectors

So what does this mean? Not knowing the 16vt block, do all the injectors line up on the fuel rail in the same way or is one slightly offset by 90 degrees requiring a unique injector? I can't see how you would be able to tell as they all look the same! Incidentally, it could be that the two "odd" injectors are in actual fact spraying the correct way or it may not make any difference at all! Given that all the injectors perform very well I would be inclined to use them but as Rich says if anything did go wrong I would have to point the finger back to myself. Any suggestions?

I would personally try and source another two injectors and get them tested as odds are then you will get at least 1 of them that will be good. I dont know much about injectors but possibly they have been damaged a tiny bit, specially number 1 which suffers a bit of degraded flow before cleaning...

There are two different Bosch fitments for injectors. One has a rectangular lump in the middle which ensures orientation, and the other does not. The 20VT has these, but I don't know about the 16VT.

In any case I can't see any way it would be safe to use them. Also this report only shows static flow, you need to look at the dynamic flow according to varying pressures and duty - they might have quite different characteristics.

The pattern if it is split should spray parallel to the position of the connector on the injector. Non-split injectors all spray broadly the same no matter what orientation

AFAIK the 16vt doesn't have orientation marks, but there is only really one way you can mount them, due to the reach on the connector on them for the ECU and the fact the connector would foul on the inlet manifold if facing the wrong way

Flea, injectors all mount the same and no special angles:

Injector Boss on inlet manifold
Fuel Rail at top of pic

Hmmmmm, I'm not sure whether they tested different flow rates but it would seem they have been given a clean bill of health in general for good flow and spray pattern

I am intrigued to know how the spray pattern on two could be the same yet different to the other four. Incidentally, I got these from wightman on here who told me they came off his old coupe engine which was sold to marc. This engine was checked over by a mechanic who said the internals were great after 85k and there had never been any problems with it. So if this engine was running one injector totally different to the other three suffice to say it did it no harm at all.

I guess I need to get hold of another set of injectors and get them tested and make a set of 5 out of those. Begbie, can you let me know if the injectors you have for sale are the beige type with the four pintle design

Forgot to add... these were tested at 2.5 bar which irc is the standard 16vt regulator. I currently have a 3.8 bar regulator using the 20vt injectors, would it be better to use the 3.8 or 3 bar regulator with these 16vt injectors?

No there not, they are the green one's from the 16v and have a single pintel

I would use the 3.8 bar reg as long as you have the high-pressure version of the Walbro 255lph pump in your boot. If you don't then you really should use a 3 bar reg in any instance.

John