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Help Needed !! #47262
09/02/2006 04:38
09/02/2006 04:38

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Hi All,

Have posted various articles on the site over the last couple of weeks as I have been looking to purchase a 20VT.

I've found a car that might be of interest, I've been to look at it twice (though not had the opportunity to test drive it yet) and I'm going back down to look at it Saturday to give it a test drive and possibly put a deposit down.

The car is being sold by L&M who are (I believe) a reputable coupe specialist but I am still cautious and wouldnt mind a bit of advice before going ahead.

On start up the car sounds quite tappety, it pretty much goes after a while (and bearing in mind that the car has been sitting still over the last couple of weeks it may be the oil working around the engine). After running for a while (five minuites or so but again from stone cold) its still ever so slightly there (though I may be just being picky). The car has approx 46,000 miles on it, is this normal?

Having not actually driven the car I've yet to undertake some of the driving tests the buying guide suggests. However I have undertaken most (those I could remember) whilst the car is stationary and have found the following niggles....

Buttons to the right of the clock are soggy (dont fall into the dash and its not an immediate worry but arent as firm as the others), I know this is a common fault but how hard is it to fix (am fairly competent DIY cars and have installed own stereos etc before).

The clock doesnt light up - again is this an easy fix.

The interior light doesnt want to turn off automatically - is this a common fault and if so easy to fix?

The car has had an awful lot of money spent on it in the last couple of years (not definate but I'm sure the paperwork from L&M totted up to about £4K) and includes some of the following...

Head skim - Quite recent within the last 6,000 miles is this o.k on a 20VT, I know some cars don't like it and its usually a result of overheating of some kind?

Replacement turbo - Again quite recent (though not at the same time as the head skim - before infact) within the last 6,000 miles, is this usual on a relativley low mileage car.

The car has had the cambelt and wishbones also replaced and doesnt look like it has wanted for much.

If anyone could give me some advice on the above I'd be trully grateful...

Thanks,

Max

Re: Help Needed !! #47263
09/02/2006 05:07
09/02/2006 05:07
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Max, is it this one they've got on ebay ?

If it is, it looks very nice.



......My Boy...... (PB #7)
Re: Help Needed !! #47264
09/02/2006 05:10
09/02/2006 05:10

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Yes, thats the one...

Re: Help Needed !! #47265
09/02/2006 05:28
09/02/2006 05:28

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Quote:

The car is being sold by L&M who are (I believe) a reputable coupe specialist but I am still cautious and wouldnt mind a bit of advice before going ahead.



Yes, they are. A few years ago (pre Powerfiat, Motormech etc) they were the only alternative to Fiat. A lot of people drove a long way to see them.

Quote:

On start up the car sounds quite tappety, it pretty much goes after a while (and bearing in mind that the car has been sitting still over the last couple of weeks it may be the oil working around the engine). After running for a while (five minuites or so but again from stone cold) its still ever so slightly there (though I may be just being picky). The car has approx 46,000 miles on it, is this normal?



It might just be waiting for the oil, I know when my Bravo was sat for a couple of months it took a good half an hours drive to really get rid of the tappet noise. It may also be a noisy injector, or it could be a cracked manifold - does it smell exhausty under the bonnet when you first start it?

Quote:

Buttons to the right of the clock are soggy (dont fall into the dash and its not an immediate worry but arent as firm as the others), I know this is a common fault but how hard is it to fix (am fairly competent DIY cars and have installed own stereos etc before).



Yep, pretty easy to fix, take out the centre console and glue them back.

Quote:

The clock doesnt light up - again is this an easy fix.



Yep, fit a new bulb while you have the console out sorting the above

Quote:

The interior light doesnt want to turn off automatically - is this a common fault and if so easy to fix?



You sure it's not just turned on instead of door opening switched?


Quote:

Head skim - Quite recent within the last 6,000 miles is this o.k on a 20VT, I know some cars don't like it and its usually a result of overheating of some kind?



Not common but not necessarily something to worry about. Are there receipts for a new fan switch or thermostat?

Quote:

Replacement turbo - Again quite recent (though not at the same time as the head skim - before infact) within the last 6,000 miles, is this usual on a relativley low mileage car.



Not usual, but not unheard of

Quote:

The car has had the cambelt and wishbones also replaced and doesnt look like it has wanted for much.



Good

Quote:

If anyone could give me some advice on the above I'd be trully grateful...



It looks to be a good car. It's had some work done but that means it's work you don't have to get done.
L&M are good, and if nothing else, you'll get at least a 3 month warranty from them

Re: Help Needed !! #47266
09/02/2006 17:12
09/02/2006 17:12

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Tappets - are you sure it's not the injectors?

Drive it!! - if it drives well, hard acceleration, turn-in, brakes in a straight line, no smoke on the over-run etc. then buy it, get a warranty!

Re: Help Needed !! #47267
10/02/2006 20:47
10/02/2006 20:47

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Hmm - if it were me looking at a purchase from L&M .... as a personal view it would be less risky then from an unknown private seller and even the Fiat dealership but I'm not all that confident on my dealings with L&M.

As mentioned this is a personal view/opinion.

Re: Help Needed !! #47268
10/02/2006 21:53
10/02/2006 21:53

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HI all,

Car details are as follows:

1999 FIAT COUPE 20V Turbo 2dr Coupe,
45,000 miles, Silver. Black leather interior, aircon, Sony CD multi changer, electric windows, ABS, PAS, alloy wheels. Had cam belt replaced in 2004 with wishbones, new turbo and clutch. Supersprint exhaust and KN filter fitted. New discs and pads all round and has just been serviced. excellent condition throughout ring for more details. £5,750. ono

If the car is good I'll make an offer but does anyone have an idae of what the car is really worth ??

Re: Help Needed !! #47269
10/02/2006 22:42
10/02/2006 22:42

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Quote:

HI all,

Car details are as follows:

1999 FIAT COUPE 20V Turbo 2dr Coupe,
45,000 miles, Silver. Black leather interior, aircon, Sony CD multi changer, electric windows, ABS, PAS, alloy wheels. Had cam belt replaced in 2004 with wishbones, new turbo and clutch. Supersprint exhaust and KN filter fitted. New discs and pads all round and has just been serviced. excellent condition throughout ring for more details. £5,750. ono

If the car is good I'll make an offer but does anyone have an idae of what the car is really worth ??




I've just bought a similar coupe(same spec,age,condition,history) but with more miles for £4900 so I think it's a pretty good price.I'd offer £5,500. Any less and someone else will get it.
Good luck.Let us know how you get on.

Re: Help Needed !! #47270
10/02/2006 23:48
10/02/2006 23:48

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It does sound like most of the usual items have been replaced, which saves you having to do it later . You could ask them what they think the ticking is and are they sure it's not the manifold as you have heard these can be suspect.

Obviously without seeing the car it's hard to guarantee but I'd be keen to take a coupe from them rather than a coupe from a non-specialist second hand car place

Re: Help Needed !! #47271
12/02/2006 00:30
12/02/2006 00:30

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Went to look at the car today (far more informed about what to look for after a call from a kindly forum member) and gave the car a very good going over (was there for well over two hours). Had the car up on the ramp and also took it for a half hour test drive. No ticking once the car was warmed up and even the ticking at cold was better so think I was right about the oil getting around the engine.

Must admit that despite the reservations I was very impressed and the car was a lot better than the other five I have looked at. The only issue seems to be that it doesnt have any alarm fobs or the blue key. However it is being offered with 12 months tax, 6 months ticket and a warranty .... The guy I spoke to wanted £5600 no offers....

Comments?

Re: Help Needed !! #47272
12/02/2006 02:47
12/02/2006 02:47
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,267
North Oxfordshire
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So he's come down from 5750 to 5600 then? I'd consider that a fair price for a good quality low mileage 1999 example (you should have seen what I paid for my n/a 1999 with low mileage two years ago , but although I paid over the odds, it was a good car, caused me no hassle and expense and I got a good price when I resold it).

Does the car have an alarm and just no fobs? Or no alarm full stop?

Not having the blue key is no major issue (it has the silver one and the red one, correct?), I bought mine with no silver key and just had a spare blue one made up cheaply. You can buy a blue key from FIAT and as long as you have the red key and the red CODE card you can get it cut at your local keycutters and then get the code programmed.

If you are happy paying that money, go for it. There will be some who say its overpriced, but if it is a good honest low mileage example from a dealer who knows their Coupes and comes with some sort of a warranty, I would strongly consider handing the cash over. It sounds like it has had a lot done and the right work done on it for its age and with a recent service, I'd hope you wouldn't have to fork out much on it for the next year or so. I know what I'd rather do when either buying this at a higher price or buying a higher mileage poorly maintained example for 2k less and then forking out that 2k again in repairs and maintenance.

Last edited by simonj; 12/02/2006 02:50.
Re: Help Needed !! #47273
12/02/2006 03:49
12/02/2006 03:49

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Have you thought about looking at Ijaz car listed on here?

Re: Help Needed !! #47274
12/02/2006 03:50
12/02/2006 03:50

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Yes but would have trouble insuring it as is cat d insurance.

Re: Help Needed !! #47275
12/02/2006 07:54
12/02/2006 07:54

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There was a big discussion about this but I can`t remember which thread it was. The major consensus was that it wouldn`t but I personally have no idea. Have you checked then?

Re: Help Needed !! #47276
13/02/2006 01:32
13/02/2006 01:32

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No, but that was the feedback I got the last time I looked at the thread you mentioned.

I know that cat d means a car is either beyond economical repair or the risk of problems from repair coming back at the insurance company is too big for them to take it. That kind of thing does concern me a little...

Re: Help Needed !! #47277
13/02/2006 03:11
13/02/2006 03:11

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BUT Cat d can mean due to parts problems, recovered after being stolen and insurance has coughed up anything like that!

Re: Help Needed !! #47278
13/02/2006 21:41
13/02/2006 21:41

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Have spoken further with the company selling the car this afternoon, they have agreed to give the car a full service (new discs and pads all round, a new tyre and couple of other bits and bobs), sort out some minor scuffles on the paintwork and in addition to the above (mot, tax, warranty etc) he'll do the blue key for £5600. But no go on the alarm fob...

Re: Help Needed !! #47279
14/02/2006 01:43
14/02/2006 01:43

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If you sign up, make sure all those items are on the order.

Re: Help Needed !! #47280
14/02/2006 02:27
14/02/2006 02:27
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 554
Nottingham
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I'd be a little wary of this car, it's done 45k yet has had to have a new turbo and has had the head skimmed (what else has it had done that you don't know about)?? Either it's had some form of catastrophic failure in it's life, or it's been thrashed by it's previous owner(s). I'd also expect L&M to sort the small niggles with the car, they should at least sort the alarm fob out and sell it as fully functional. The price reflects low mileage, but for me I'd expect it to be still on it's original turbo (unless replaced to upgrade performance) and wouldn't have expected the head to have been skimmed, I'd want to know a little more about it's history.

Just my 2 pence worth....

Re: Help Needed !! #47281
14/02/2006 19:00
14/02/2006 19:00

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But the car may have overheated, its an easy thing to do and will warp a headgasket, and usually the head is skimmed!

New Turbo hmmmm may have been a faulty unit and replaced under warranty? When was it replaced. 45K seems not a lot of mileage for a turbo to go without abuse or a manufacturing fault!

Re: Help Needed !! #47282
14/02/2006 20:36
14/02/2006 20:36

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I've run through all the paperwork on the car (most of which is L&M) which show that the car has had around £4k thrown at it in the last two/three years, the items breakdown on this paperwork is from the little things all the way through to the replacment turbo, wishbones etc. L&M (who are selling the car) have told me that the car was previously owned by a city broker/banker who spent little time in the U.K (hence the low mileage) but ensured the car wanted for nothing. To quote quite (roughly) Karl at L&M "The turbo replacment was down to short city runs with the car being used for short trips and not getting to cool down properly leading to the the bearings etc wearing (I think that is what he said). The head was skimmed at the same time as the the exhaust manifold was done as a matter of course..."

I'm now starting to get really confused. This seems to be a tidy and sorted car with low mileage being sold by a Fiat Coupe specialist with a warranty, mot and tax etc. I've looked at about 7 coupes now and this is by far the best example i've seen/driven and bar things like the alarm fob, an ever so slightly notchy fifth gear and couple of nicks on the alloys, seems mint. I'm prepared to spend this kind of money because the mot, tax, warranty, recent service etc... on the basis that if I spend the money now on buying a mint car the work should be done/the car in good nick and I buy a solid car that I dont need to throw money at like a hole in the ground.

I've given them a deposit (£50) to hold onto the car until the weekend but if the general advice is to walk away then I'd prefer to blow £50 now than £000's later on. I need (particularly if I'm spending this kind of money) a sound car that myself and my partner car use for small trips during the weeks (to and from work) and going out an about at the weekends as well as the odd long-haul trip (planning to go to Scotland later this year). I'm aware that the car will need regular servicing and general looking after (it is after all an enthusiasts car) but if a coupe in general or this coupe specifically doesn't fit the bill then I ned to know before I spend a whole load of money....

Re: Help Needed !! #47283
14/02/2006 21:38
14/02/2006 21:38

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Erm what is actually the problem with the car? You say it's mint and better than all others seen.

If it's just the alarm putting you off, don't be - I had a meta previusly, was an unreliable thing. For £300 you can get a brand new alarm with all the fobs and will probably be better than the factory fitted one IMO

If it's what you want, buy it, as everyone else has advised. They are not as cheap to run as a Ford Focus but certainly no more than another performance car and you get a lot of bang for your buck Coupes are generally very reliable - people only post problems on here, I have had 2 coops, albeit n/a and never had a problem, only money spent was on routine servicing and wear and tear stuff like tyres. People generally have problems once they start modding, the newer standard cars are generally hassle free

Coupe paranoia starts after you have bought the car not before

Re: Help Needed !! #47284
14/02/2006 21:42
14/02/2006 21:42
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Quote:

The head was skimmed at the same time as the exhaust manifold was done as a matter of course..."





Thats a new one on me

My last coupe had the Manifold changed and that certainly didn't have the head skimmed.

Sounds a bit fishy to me.



......My Boy...... (PB #7)
Re: Help Needed !! #47285
14/02/2006 21:51
14/02/2006 21:51

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I think he meant was that the exhaust manifold was being done and they noticed/did the skim at the same time.

Have to be honest and say that other than ensuring you had a flush head for mounting I dont know why a head would be skimmed or why you would notice that it did need skimming ??

Re: Help Needed !! #47286
14/02/2006 22:33
14/02/2006 22:33

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Owned by a city boy who wasn't worried about throwing money at it. Of course the garage did every possible bit of work regardless of it needed doing or not.

Re: Help Needed !! #47287
15/02/2006 00:04
15/02/2006 00:04
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To be honest, your buying from a well known garage thats offering a warranty on the car, its got a book of recipts and bills for all the work done, its got low milage and its the best you've looked at.....

I dont see whats holding you back ?

It could be much worse, try buying private then finding things wrong with the car when you have no come back at all.

The little bits you mentioned like interior lights are a simple fix and shouldn't put you off buying, there are much worse cars out there.

Re: Help Needed !! #47288
15/02/2006 02:08
15/02/2006 02:08

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I'm hoping that the car having had loads of work done and bits being replaced will be a good thing rather than a bad. And hopefully the warranty will help out if anything does go seriously wrong.

Thanks all for your advice; you've definitely helped to quieten the voices in my head!!

Re: Help Needed !! #47289
15/02/2006 02:16
15/02/2006 02:16
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WAIT

Max, I've just been chatting to a friend who's been to view this car too, he said its a complete nail !!!

I'm not kidding mate, Rich who used to own a coupe 20vt and is a member of the forum sold his coupe last year but he's look for another now so he knows what he's looking at.

He picked up rust on the rear arches, rust on the bonnet, overspray on the boot shut lines, sagging doors, very poor condition door skins (car park dings) to name a few faults.

I know these are only superficial but a car with only 45K miles shouldn't be rusting if its been slightly looked after. I would hate to imagine what condition the engine is in if the body is that shabby.

I smell a rat, ignore my previous post and walk away !

Re: Help Needed !! #47290
15/02/2006 02:36
15/02/2006 02:36
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Max, like the man said, "walk away"

It sounds way too dodgy, even with an L&M warranty.



......My Boy...... (PB #7)
Re: Help Needed !! #47291
15/02/2006 03:08
15/02/2006 03:08
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,267
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Shows the power of forums like this when help is needed

Also goes to show (if correct which I have no reason to believe he isn't) that you can't value highly enough the input of someone who knows what they are talking about and has seen the car. We were all saying it sounded good (bar the work done at a low mileage) but of course had never seen it.

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