Had my car rollin roaded today, firstly with the programme that has always been in it (not standard, but no idea what it was??), Then a second run with a programme supplied by Vas (Guy on the forum with highly tuned 16vt)

First run was what i expected.... 240bhp (all figures are at the wheels), that was runnin 1.3 bar boost but fuelling was so rich it was off the scale!!! Torque was 328Nm...

Second run with V's program i was a little dissapointed as i only got an extra 7bhp, so 247bhp at the wheels, torque rose quite a bit tho to 362Nm (267ft lb).... guy said it was now runnin a tad lean!! was runnin 1.3 bar boost again!

I was expecting a little more than that to be honest as V is gettin somethin around 320 at the wheels with what i believe is same programme?
Saying that the guy at the rolling road said that V must know what he's doing as the graph is Infinitly Smoother on the second run, and i also hit max torque alot earlier..!!

Anyways gonna show and discuss results with V and the he's gonna send me a revised chip, so i'll be back on the R/R in about month or so with a bit of luck!!!

What could be holding performance back???
I know i've only got the stock down pipe which is 2.25 inch external diametre, but ther is also a part of the exhaust which goes down to 2 inches!!!

As for it being a little lean, shall i change fpr for a 3.8 bar one?? i've already got one but didn't fit it as it looks like a right pain in the arse to do (inlet manifold off)??
Graph: Blue= original chip Red= V's programme
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q27/nicdav1/DSC00548.jpg

Nick

My Mods:

wossner forged pistons
c&b max fast road cams
t34 cosworth turbo (360 thrust bearing & cut back blades)
Acdelco Ebv
440cc injectors
Whole bottom end lightened and balanced
Polished and ported head
tubular manifold
Pro alloy Fmic
straight induction pipe
Piper cross air filter

Nick

Hm,

don't like it at all Nick!
Q time obviously...

Can we have a proper graph with revs plz. It's the first time I see such a flat and odd looking graph! Did he plot AFR vs revs as well (I told you I really want that!)

Now, how does the car feel? Similar to what it was before? (cannot really be with the new advance curve and all!)

Slight lean was expected as I had setup values for the 3.8bar fpr which you finally didn't fit (but don't worry it's easy to change)
What plugs are you running and are they fouled by the constant rich running or are they ok?

Now off the turbo a 3inch d/p up to after the cat (you still have it on or not?) would give you at least 5-7bhp.
Don't forget I'm also running integrale inlet manifold which by dynoing the car before and after gave an extra 15bhp

Thing is that values don't addup to that... Even if the rr you went is a v.strict one and mine was a v.optimistic one there must be something more/else.

Give us some impression on how it drives and where you get 1bar boost on 3rd and 4th gear plz.

cheers

V.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q27/nicdav1/DSC00549.jpg

That should be better??

The car does feel much smoother although when i'm coming off the throttle for say a round about, it tends to stall quite often??
I'm got the cold pugs in ngk b8egv... i cleaned them about a month ago but they may be a little fouled up???

i've got de cat pipe which is then linked to my peco back box via a 2" joiner, seems a little odd???

Nick

Still crap mate, get a proper scanner
Why did he stop the run at 5.4K rpm? Engine should be good for 7K! (graph was on the rise still when he cut it)
FWIW, we have the same power at 200whp @3900rpm, but then yours seems to be building power much slower

It's indeed slightly lean. Should be aiming for 12 when on boost and yours is at 12.7 flirting with 13.0 at points! May have to fit the 3.8fpr as with the 440cc injectors we haven't got that much to play but I'll come back to that again.
Stall as in engine dying completely??? that's odd and not really related (imo) but may be to do with the ICV/TPS regulation.

V.

somethings not right hardware wise,

245bhp (215bhp wheels) is quite a achievable on a standard car with a boost increase and some supporting mods

cams/tubular manifold/big turbo/ported head should be a gain of alot more than what yours is showing. I would have expected circa 300bhp at the wheels which is 50bhp more than you have now

I have a similar problem with 'Lost horses", peitch has done some interesting cam work so I will try and get that out of him.

I think you need to get that exhaust sorted to something more in line with the rest of your mods -I have a striaght thorugh 3" but 2.75" would likely be O.K. as well - 2" is small for teh type of BHP you are trying to make 0 get rid of that 2" bit of pipe for sure.

have you used the stock pulleys for the cams, and have the valves been gapped correctly?
Maybe an idea to do a compression test as well to see where it stands (not in terms of problems in one of the cyl but overall dynamic comp rate)

There's definitely something wrong, finding it is another story though...

V.

I'll Check plugs when i get back later... also i think there may be an issue with clutch slipping ever so slightly... was brand new clutch, but wasn't one reccommended from off forum as i was not a member back then... clutch slip would explain my power not climbing as quickly aS YOURS v???

If clutch slip was that bad you would hear it, and when it came on boost it would likely swing round to the rev line - so it's unlikely

What revs did they take it too again? was it only 5400rpm? if so that explains alot, peak power on your motor I would expect to be around 6k

Yeah, he only took it to 5400 revs....
There is a definate clutch slip tho, took it out last night for a blast, and as soon as i hit between 3900-4500 there is an ever so slight clutch slip... definately not wheel spinning as i'd feel it get grip again wouldn't i???
Think i bought a shitty clutch!! Gonna try it again in a while to confirm the slipping clutch!!!

Nick

why did he only get the car up to 5.4Krpm, that's odd.
Also with the extra torque you now have, it's is expected to have clutch problems (unless everything is spot on...)

Still we are missing a flock of ponies somewhere, so you need to do a few things. I recon first is a proper 3inch dp and let it join the 60mm exhaust later (that's what I have)
Is the back box okay, no collapse material in it causing extreme backpressure holding the whole thing?

later

V.

fuel pump still original ? if so,--> chance .
exhaust--> put 3" ( stock Q4 from 190hp to 220hp on that mod ) if using small exhaust, your engine work is waste of money.

Fuel pump uprated with wiring mod!!!
Gonna have to sort down pipe me thinks!!!!
Also my back box has became alot more VOCAL compared to how it was say 3 months ago????
always been quite loud as i have de cat...
What is used in back box to make exhaust quieter... is it baffles???
Could a fooooked baffle be causing a blockage???

i'll post up a bit later what i think my clutch is doing!!!

Nick

Better Graphs!!!!

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q27/nicdav1/scan0001.jpg

Graph seems to me to be what expected up till about 3800/3900 revs then it just pretty much levels off????
I'd have expected the power to rise the same amount again between 4000-4500, as it did between 3500-4000???

When the guy did the runs with my original chip, he had 3 goes at it and picked the best one... once we installed V's programme he only ran it once more???

Boost doesn't die off either... AT ALL!! Don't a 360 thrust bearing and cut back blades make it hold boost better???

Could the clutch slip ever so slightly as it would hardly be noticed?? at the end of the last run the guy got out of my car and said "you need a new clutch" but upon examining the graph he said i didn't.... strange he should say that as something obviously didn't feel right to him??
Alos it fealt like the clutch was slipping ever so slightly when i took it out that night!!!

If you look at the graph the power seems to start leveling off at Exactly the same time as Peak torque (when the clutch would most likely slip)...

Nick

hm,

compare that to my last RR graph (mind you running 13-13.5 all the way!

http://fos.prd.uth.gr/vas/coupe/tuning/power-torque_25-11-07.jpg

Something's definitely blocking you, so do the downpipe first, fit the 3.8bar fpr and you should FEEL the difference it will make
So, not much around a grand more to go

V.

So at 4000 revs our torque is very similar but i'm making about 25 more hp... seems odd that it just stops for me really bhp wise after that tho

Nick.....

P.s starting to fall out of love with this car again!!!

Also noticed my Manifold may be blowing slightly as the very end bolt has decided its not doing anything and is just turning in the hole!!!

Nick

many little broplems --> one big hp missing

my RR session was in Nov07 with all mods I'm running now, but the day after I changed the dp and with wrong mixtures (as opening up the exhaust meant that mixtures leaned out and anyway I was still learning at the time)
The fact that you're producing more bhp low down is due to better mixture and advance in your case (which I obviously do have myself now as we are running the same maps - once compensated for my 630cc injectors) together with the restrictions on exhaust. Once that is alleviated, you should see big improvements from 4K upwards
Since you're ll be taking it for a custom dp, it's worth removing the SS manifold and helicoil the thread and refit it with a spesso gasket you'll get off Trevor (nissa) (see Begbie's thread in tuning on that!)
BTW, what exhaust manifold gasket are you using?

V.

so first things to do are:
3" downpipe... shall i take the 3" pipe straight back as my decat pipe is only 2.25"???? That would mean i'd have 3" all the way back up untill the back box section which would then reduce to 2.25" again...

3.8 Fpr... gonna need to change this for sure if you say opening up the exhaust will lean it out even more!!!

Sort blowing manifold out.. Am only using standard gasket, but think i'll get spesso one!!

Hopefullly this will round up some of the missing horses!

Nick

exactly, that's how I've done it 3inches all the way to the back box. The idea is that you really need the large dia at the first metre or so, as that's where the exhaust gasses have the higher temps. When it cools down, the need for a larger dia is reduced.

Together with the blowing gasket that may bring back 20 or more horses (had not noticed the 2inch bit that you mentioned!) When you're at it, have the person check the back box for failed inslution/whatever they stuff in there blocking it

Then when you do all that, you'll notice that your clutch will be fcked in no time

Then we're talking

V.

And ther was me thinking that the spending money part was nearly over...

so when i've got all that done are you gonna send me "part 2" or shall we wait till i've rolling roaded it again???

Nick

we'll see how it goes. It should be really OK with the changes we've listed.
You haven't answered on a few things, please state clearly:

A.Are the cams on adjustable pulleys or on the stock items?

B. does the car pull nicely up to 7.3-7.5Krpm, hitting rev cutter easily on 1-2-3rd gear?

C. a photo of the engine bay around the turbo to filter area/SIP please.

D. dia, routing and piping of the IC

E. check with your mechanic what gaps he's used on the cams and cross check them with C&B website.

F. what plug leads are you running?

I'll try and get my car RR on Sat so you can have an idea of where I'm now on the same mods.

V.