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Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: ] #690232
07/10/2008 12:13
07/10/2008 12:13
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,115
South Cheshire
L
Lucifer Offline
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Lucifer  Offline
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Posts: 4,115
South Cheshire
Just catching up on all this, I'm still a definite. Not sure what time slots are available but 12 o clock would be ideal, is that an option?


2016 Jaguar F-Type R AWD; 2017 BMW M4 Competition Package; 2015 Range Rover Evoque 2.2 Tech
Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: Lucifer] #690263
07/10/2008 12:35
07/10/2008 12:35

M
MABR
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MABR
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M



 Originally Posted By: Lucifer
Just catching up on all this, I'm still a definite. Not sure what time slots are available but 12 o clock would be ideal, is that an option?


The earliest time slot will be 9.00am then in 30 minute slots thereafter.

1. MABR - POSSIBLE

TIME: ANY

2. Taffy - DECLINED (but still attending and spannering!)

3. Pebbles - CONFIRMED

TIME: ???

4. MattM - CONFIRMED

TIME: ???

5. Clay99 - CONFIRMED (Honda Type R)

TIME: ???

6. Lucifer - CONFIRMED

TIME: 12.00 noon

7. Sprintsteve - CONFIRMED

TIME: 11.00am

8. mona - ???

9. Jef_uk - CONFIRMED (dependant on bits arriving )

TIME: ???

10. Bosco - CONFIRMED

TIME: 9.30am

11. Nigel - ???


The later time slots will be dependant on numbers attending, hence the 9.00am start.

Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: ] #690593
12/10/2008 19:48
12/10/2008 19:48

J
Jef_uk
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Jef_uk
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J



Sorry I could not make this my manifold was cracked and I had a sized nut holding the turbo to it (Which I had to brake) didn't want to go to the trouble of putting it back together to dismantle it sorry.

Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: ] #690609
12/10/2008 20:22
12/10/2008 20:22
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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Not sure if you read my reply on the other forum Sprintsteve, let me know if not.


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Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: Flea] #690612
12/10/2008 20:27
12/10/2008 20:27

S
sprintsteve
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sprintsteve
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S



hi flea, yes just read it before begbie shut me out !!

you have a pm

Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: ] #690681
12/10/2008 22:13
12/10/2008 22:13
Joined: Dec 2005
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Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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well - that was a crap result (although not entirely unexpected)

I knew I had a misfire, so wanted to use the day to see what the car was doing.

I managed a paltry 270bhp @ 1.2 bar. The car misfired at anything above 1.5 bar and just wouldn't give enough boost.

It ran lean until I reset the ECU, then it went off the scale rich as it spooled up (less than 10AFR)

Ar$e \:\(


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Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: Nigel] #690826
13/10/2008 10:51
13/10/2008 10:51
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,115
South Cheshire
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First rolling road for me since I had all the recent work done, and very happy with the result. I've been running on low boost since the rebuild, as I wanted to establish that the car was running safe and healthy before putting it back up to it's full potential.

275bhp at just under 1.2 bar, with perfect torque curve and fuelling. The guys at Dyno Demon said that I can now safely turn the boost gauge up slightly, and so on the next run I will take a figure at 1.4 bar and see where it's at.

Very happy with the result \:\)


2016 Jaguar F-Type R AWD; 2017 BMW M4 Competition Package; 2015 Range Rover Evoque 2.2 Tech
Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: Nigel] #690867
13/10/2008 12:30
13/10/2008 12:30
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
Trappy Offline
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Time for a Fleamap then Nigel? Sounds like the same mapping problem (ahem PT ahem) that Luke's car had \:z



F****** b****** thing...
Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: Trappy] #690894
13/10/2008 13:36
13/10/2008 13:36
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Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Trappy
Time for a Fleamap then Nigel? Sounds like the same mapping problem (ahem PT ahem) that Luke's car had \:z



Once the ECU had been reset, the fuelling was spot on, but the huge misfire was completely screwing the spoolup.

I'll be letting Flea loose on the car soon - watch this space....


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Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: Nigel] #690904
13/10/2008 13:51
13/10/2008 13:51
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
Trappy Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Nigel

It ran lean until I reset the ECU, then it went off the scale rich as it spooled up (less than 10AFR)


 Originally Posted By: Nigel

Once the ECU had been reset, the fuelling was spot on


I'm confused, was it rich or perfect? I assume the misfiring is due to the boost blowing out the spark still? How do other marque 'high boost heroes'(tm) get around this problem? Do they even suffer from it? I remember the Lancer forums 40-120mph board showing a few running crazy 1.7-2.5bar... \:o

 Originally Posted By: Nigel

I'll be letting Flea loose on the car soon - watch this space....


Glad to hear this though, I'm sure he'll be able to sort a lot of your ECU reset issues with a good map. It'll be good to see the results. The guys over at Track'n'road were very impressed with my map and results even asking who had done it. I have a feeling they'll be looking out for Leighton's work in future \:\)


F****** b****** thing...
Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: Trappy] #691066
13/10/2008 17:14
13/10/2008 17:14

P
pebbles
Unregistered
pebbles
Unregistered
P



Hi all ,this was my first at the rolling road, enjoyed the company and the experiance ,my coupe is standard and i got 227bhp realy happy that i've got a healthy engine,and i'd recommend even if you are standard, I would still go to a rolling road to check that everything is running smoothly.

Bev & Kev..

Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: Trappy] #691075
13/10/2008 17:28
13/10/2008 17:28

S
sprintsteve
Unregistered
sprintsteve
Unregistered
S



posted this on other forum, but thought stick it on here.
was another good meet glad to see you all again!

Thought i would post my graphs up,made 260.9 bhp was told fueling was fine nothing to worry about after my runs on the day, but after comments from flea and looking at other graphs on here my fueling is very wrong and way too lean!

checked my exhaust all the way through tonight for leaks which may have effected AFR reading,all is fine apart from i think the manifold is cracked i can see very small amount of exhaust gas rising past manifold cover after a run?

would this cause me to run this lean ?surely i dont need an uprated fuel pump or wiring mod for this level of tune?
put standard chip back in tonight sulking now !
will have to get my manifold sorted too.

graphs from a couple of months back at dyno demon,my mods s/s cat back ,cone filter and bailey dv.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f69/fiatcoupe20vt/graph1.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f69/fiatcoupe20vt/graph2.jpg

Results from this sat @dyno demon - addition of Gtech 1 chip, bailey dv removed back on standard dv
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f69/fiatcoupe20vt/graph3.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f69/fiatcoupe20vt/graph4.jpg

Last edited by sprintsteve; 13/10/2008 17:30.
Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: ] #691113
13/10/2008 18:21
13/10/2008 18:21
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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yup, its a bit lean, but not horribly so

ideal AFR is around 11 - 11.5 - yours is 13.5, drifting towards 12 as the revs rise (which is the right direction for it to drift)


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Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: Nigel] #691116
13/10/2008 18:29
13/10/2008 18:29
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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trappy - sorry, I didn't make myself clear

After the ECU reset, I ran at 2 bar.

the fuelling trace shows a pretty steady 11AFR until the turbo started to spool up, at which point, the AFR plummeted (rich). As soon as the misfire had stopped, the AFR jumped back up to 11 and stayed very close to 11 all the way to the rev limiter.

My guess is that the mad AFR ISN'T caused by the fuelling map, its the result of unburned fuel hitting the lambda as the spark is killed. However, I need to get to the bottom of why the spark is dying - is it det? Is it a dying plug? is it the advance going mad? Is it poor voltage at the coils?

Flea is going to have his work cut out, but if he can sort it (and the ECU learning issue) then it would look like he's managed to crack the control of the Motronic. I hope so, as wifey will probably baulk at a Santa letter saying "Motec and mapping"


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Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: Nigel] #691154
13/10/2008 19:40
13/10/2008 19:40

M
MABR
Unregistered
MABR
Unregistered
M



Sorry it's taken me so long to post up on here after I'd organised the damn thing.

Nice to see everyone again including Nigel and Bosco who both must have had a fair distance to travel to get there.

A good day all round with 9 coops going on the rollers. Some disappointments but hopefully people now know the solutions needed (Nigel's got Leighton on speed-dial \:D ).

Special thanks from me to Adam, Clayton, Matt and Joe for supplying parts / advice / spannering on my coop. After the changes, she ran 253bhp with far better fuelling. Now need to get an uprated panel filter and that'll be it until the turbo decides to let go. \:o

Extra special thanks to Steve at Dyno Demon for only charging the 10+ cars rate - very much appreciated.

I've spoken to Steve today to arrange the next date (see seperate thread) and he informed me that they had just literally, been confirmed as the area Dastek rep.

Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: Nigel] #691233
13/10/2008 21:21
13/10/2008 21:21

S
sediciRich
Unregistered
sediciRich
Unregistered
S



Hey Nigel, this is a little confusing

 Originally Posted By: Nigel

My guess is that the mad AFR ISN'T caused by the fuelling map, its the result of unburned fuel hitting the lambda as the spark is killed.


Since the lambda detects oxygen and not fuel. I would guess the fuel would burn in the turbo using up all the oxygen, probably spitting some soot out the back.

Are these quoted numbers from a wide band sensor, as a narrow band really only tells you rich, lean or ok, with little to distinguish how lean or how rich?

cheers

Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: ] #691377
14/10/2008 09:13
14/10/2008 09:13
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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Rich - its from a probe up the tailpipe on the dyno. I imagine if the fuel isn't being burnt in the cylinder, its either getting burnt somewhere after the exhaust ports or quite possibly, not being burnt at all - the clouds of smoke out the back when it misfires would suggest its not getting burnt (or at least the majority of it isn't)


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Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: Nigel] #691418
14/10/2008 10:25
14/10/2008 10:25

S
sediciRich
Unregistered
sediciRich
Unregistered
S



What fuel can burn must be using the oxygen the rest as partially combusted smoke. makes sense. I'll guess the EGT would be pretty high if combustion is occuring outside of the cylinders.

Last edited by sediciRich; 14/10/2008 10:36.
Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: ] #691442
14/10/2008 11:14
14/10/2008 11:14
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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it has been suggested that backpressure may be the issue, but I'm not convinced.

I can't understand why the car would run 2 bar of boost with no misfire at TOTB (albeit with a splash of octane booster) but now can't run 1.6 bar without causing a smoke screen of pea-soup consistency

There are two (potentially conflicting) factors

the misfire reduces (or even goes away) when I gap the plugs down to 0.6mm (from 0.8mm standard)

the misfire only started after the last remap, which coincided with the fitment of a 3.8bar FPR Prior to this, I only ran 1.6 bar max (everything else the same)

TBH, I'm not that bothered with being able to run 2 bar - its massively violent to drive and gives slightly less power (down to about 385 at PT) The torque was huge though - over 400lb-ft, which was entertaining, but tiring.

Nope, I just want to be able to run 1.6 - 1.7 bar with safety


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Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: Nigel] #691450
14/10/2008 11:30
14/10/2008 11:30
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
Trappy Offline
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What FPR were you running prior to this latest remap then Nigel? Surely not the standard item...

As far as I'm aware, the high boost misfiring is the same problem that Flea's car is suffering from but again he has had a period when it didn't happen. Then again he was running race fuel at the time (IIRC). Could the octane rating really stop the spark blowing out?

What about JohnS, has his car ever suffered from this?

Again though, do other cars get this when running high boost? I'm going to do some digging \:\)


F****** b****** thing...
Re: North West Rolling Road Day - 11th October [Re: Trappy] #691461
14/10/2008 11:49
14/10/2008 11:49
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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Trappy - yes, TurboJ is having the same problem

Yes, I was running the stock 3.0bar FPR up until about June. With the bigger injectors, this was giving me enough fuel to give 400bhp

The reason for the remap was that I hadn't been mapped with the forged rods - the previous map had been held back so I didn't damage the standard rods (which didn't work, as I bent one anyway). To make use of the forged rods, I knew we'd need more boost, and to use more boost, I knew PT would need either bigger injectors or more fuel pressure - the 3.8bar FPR was a much cheaper option.

Flea's taking the car off me tomorrow evening and will spend some time playing around with it to understand what is happening.


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