new FC owner - with CDO

Hello everybody,

I'm a newbie here, because if all goes well, I pick up my first ever Fiat Coupe tomorrow. Yay!

My previous car was an Alfa Romeo 166 3l V6 Lusso, and I loved it to bits, but when I lost my job I couldn't afford the 2000+ euros tax. I always wanted a Coupe, a yellow one, and hoping for a plus. And it seems after waiting for more than 2 years my dream finally comes true.

To make sure I can enjoy her as long as possible, I'm asking for your opinions, what should I get done on the car. The previous owner put in some modifications, some I will remove, some I will keep, but I'd like to change the car back as close to the original as possible (first thing I will do is to remove the bluemotion logo (!) from the coin holder)

This is what the car currently has:

chipped by superchips u.s.a (I will put in the old ECU)
sport air intake system by k&n racing (I will keep it)
manual boost controller (will turn it to lowest and leave there)
magnaflow stainless performance exhaust system (it was a "dustbin", I asked the seller to put the original back)
limited seats with turbo logo (I have a set of leather seats from another car)
new parrot black edition (I will keep it)
car security system with remote (I will keep it)

I will get 4 new Falken tyres, and even though the belts were changed 10k miles ago, I don't know how old they are, so I get them changed asap, together with the waterpump.
I will also ask my trusted mechanic to replace the coolant hoses and check the brakepipes (the car passed the NCT -your MOT - this week, so in theory they are OK)

So, other than the belts and hoses what would you fix/change to ensure the longetivity of the car? I heard something about an auxillary belt pulley with a lip, so in case of belt failure it won't damage the timing belt. Should I do it? The car doesn't have the strut brace, and the luggage net is also missing, so I'll have to get those at some stage as well.

Any other suggestions?

thanks
Levente

P. S. what is CDO you ask? well, it's OCD, but the letters in the correct order...

Hello and welcome to the forum Levente!

I was just looking at the same ad in donedeal last night.

2 FIAT COUPE 20VT LIMITED EDITION

It seems that all the Fiat Coupé`s in Ireland are in co. Wicklow as this is where I bought mine as well.

The body on the yellow one that you have your eyes on looks awful clean! But for some reason is missing the LE/Plus body kit? And to me this crowd "CHIPPED BY SUPERCHIPS U.S.A" sound a bit... Seemly there is a company in the UK that is called "Superchips" But when you go on their website this is the results you get 30hp . I would definitely like to see some dyno sheets or some proof... I`m not sure if you can get the Coupé up to 275hp from 220hp with just a chip but some of the forum TITANS will correct me there I`m sure!

The Sprinty Blue Coupé in the ad has been for sale for a long, long time... And the last time I`ve seen it it was for sale on its own and was chipped to 260bhp and now its "2.0 20V TURBO 220 CP.STOCK"? Hmmm..

Be wary anyway and before you go and buy anything have a goooood read and this as it helped me a lot when I was buying my Coop.

Good luck with the viewing!

Thanks Markiz. That is the car, correct. I had a mechanic to have a look at them, I was hoping he will keep the blue one for himself as a payment for the belt+wp replacement, but after looking at it he wasn't interested. It's not actually the car on the picture, that's just "for illustration" purposes. The car in question is in a shed, and has wine red right wing and bonnet, and the head gasket is blown (thick mayo in the oil).

I'm actually really interested if it's a real plus or not, i. e. it doesn't have the strut brace, but does have the yellow needles in the speedo. And it was bought originally by a Fiat/Alfa garage owner in Kilternan, where I serviced my Alfa before they were closed.

As I said I replace the chip with the original one, I think 200+ bhp is more than enough.

I read that post you linked right after I read the variations of the Coupes on the main page, and tbh I'm scared, first, because I won't have the red key/codecard, and second, what my mechanic will say when he takes the car apart, but I really really want one. So I bought this yellow one, you linked in the ad. Even if it's not a real Plus - btw can anybody tell me if I send over the VIN?

Are you sure the Broomy is an LE?

I didn't think they were made in yellow.....

And there is no strut brace apart from the lack of red and black trim inside.

Looks like it's a Plus?

Do you know why it's so cheap? No oil pressure perhaps?

It's a late 6 speed 20vt

According to the seller its an LE... This is the title of the ad "2 FIAT COUPE 20VT LIMITED EDITION"

It's NOT an LE!
As you said, they never made a broom version. It would have been like a polo harliquin inside

Doesn't it say Limited edition cloth seats with "turbo"

Just saying

Haha

Yes it does. But it also says : "LIMITED EDITION 275 CP." And the ad title says "2 FIAT COUPE 20VT LIMITED EDITION"

This car is limited in every way!

well, it's definitely not an LE, and now it seems it's not a plus either. I think I'm still going to go for it.

It still is a very nice looking coop, buddy! The body of it looks immaculate and you have the much desired honeycomb grille, push-button start, the plus alloys and the sunroof!

Just make sure its mechanicly sound and make sure that you don`t pay price for a Limited Edition or Plus model as it is clearly not one!

What does "re spray for nct" mean? Bad paintwork can't be a fail surely!!

that is the other car, it has wine red right wing and bonnet. but that's the least of the problems, the oil tank was full of mayo.

So, after so many posts slaying my future car just because the way the current owner advertised it, let's go back to the original question:

Please help me to futureproof my car. What should I do?

Future proof:

Buy a decent silicone coolant hose set, replace every hose.

Replace thermostat (its probably stuck open if never been changed).

Change cambelt, water pump, auxiliaries, tensioners.

Use decent oil (10/40 full syn as a general guide) and change every 4k miles.

Keep one eye on oil pressure and water temp at all times (very important

Strip it and rust proof everything!!

Job done

It's probably a good idea to look through the forum and it's sections. You'll soon get the idea of what we tend to do to Coupe's to help them along.

What you will find is trends, like change cam belt, change oil, change hoses, change turbo. As one4seven outlines.

They are not really unreliable cars. They are very solid actually. But …. if you buy one with very little or no service history, you really should not expect anything other than issues.

Most people sell cars in this price bracket as something has gone wrong and they cannot afford to rectify it … meaning, usually, you, the new owner, discovers this a short time after purchase.

There is a buying guide on the forum - try the search function.

Lastly, good luck. As for that interior, they are sort after, I would tell the guy to leave it in the car, do not swap for leather!!

Please accept apologies on behalf of the serial forum slaggers who have nothing better to do than sit in their ivory towers and tell you what or whether your LE Plus or whatever is wherever.

Whenever.

Markiz, one4seven and patch234, thanks for your help. As I said belts, waterpump and hoses will be done. About the stripping, I was thinking about it, probably will do it in the next 2-3 year or so, as the current paintjob looks perfect. I will check for the termostat.

About the price, that's not cheap in Ireland, here nobody buys interesting cars, it's all diseasels and hyundais here.

Edinburgh, thank you for showing off those fantastic smileys.

Simon only does smileys to annoy old fogies like me.

klapanciusz, glad to hear you got a new coupe. Im located in North Dublin if your ever passing by,

By the way, did the other coupe come with the deal?

The plan was that I give the other car to my mechanic, as a payment for the stuff he's doing on mine, but once he had a look at it (probably blown head gasket) he said no. So, I'm only getting the yellow one, plus the leather seats and the original tailpipe from the blue one.

I took in all the advice I got from you, and I decided to go for it, and make it a real Plus. It already has most of the stuff (wheels, dash, etc) so I think if I get the Plus Recaro seats, mats, strut brace and maybe the steering wheel, I'll be a happy bunny. (I have a very understanding wife).

I was considering buying daihti's and westie's cars before, but I think buying this one and "doing it up" is the best compromise.

I think the stick to adjust the clock in my dash is missing the thick round piece, it's too thin and I can't spin it to set the time properly. Could someone take a close up for the stick, so I see how it should look like?

tia

The analogue clock sticks are a "press" not "twist" if I recall correctly...

If you saw the state of my car, you might disagree!

I hate to be pedantic, but you will never be able to turn it into a Plus. You may make it indistinguishable from a Plus, but it will not have been registered as a Plus from new.

If I were you, I would still do it for my own pleasure, but no officionado would ever accept it as a real Plus.

To make it indistinguishable from a Plus you would need to replace steering wheel, gear knob and gaiter, handbrake lever and gaiter, door cards as well as all seats. You would also need a crinkle finish red cam cover to go with the red strut brace and you also need red brake calipers all around. Not forgetting the LE body kit (skirts and lips colour coded).

Most VT6s already have the white/silver dials, push button start, honeycomb grill, Plus wheels and strut brace. Mine both did and my current Ink black VT6 also has optional Recaros, but not with the Plus red stitching. I considered bringing my Inky VT6 up to Plus spec, but decided that personalizing it might be a better option, so I'm thinking of going with yellow brake calipers and cam cover and fitting a colour coded LE kit. Good idea, yes or no?

If you really wanted a proper yellow Plus, you could have bought mine. I still have it, despite Mrs Pigman, but one or other of my Coupés will have to go eventually. Westies yellow Plus was attractive especially at the price, but was a Malaysian import, not a genuine UK car. Wouldn't have mattered to me, but might to some.

So, your Broomy Coupé is no doubt a lovely Coupé, but not a Plus and never a Plus.

Just saying.

Pigman, I absolutely get that, I don't need the stamp, that I have a Plus, but I like how the Plus looks like. Interesting enough the cam cover is already red, and I really like your idea for the yellow brake calipers, I think I'll do that next time. BTW you forgot to add the luggage net in the boot to the list, I guess that's still available from the dealers?
I was looking at Coupes for sale in the last 2-3 years (pistonheads, ebay, donedeal.ie, carzone.ie), and I signed up to the forum about a year ago, when I really made up my mind about the colour and the trim. I don't remember a yellow Plus being up for sale, but the 35% VRT (extra import tax in Ireland) would have killed the idea of buying a car from the UK pretty soon (daihti's car already had an Irish reg). I already did that a few years ago, there were no 3l V6 Alfa 166 for sale in Ireland for years, so I brought one in from the UK, and paid about 3.5k euros as a VRT. Then the government "experts" in the car tax office wanted to register my cas as ALPHA, ffs.

So, how hard is to get these parts? Seats, strut braces and the steering wheel. (btw you won't believe it, somebody put two, non-functioning buttons, one red and one green on the airbag, too fast too furious style, so I need a new steering wheel anyway). I already have some body kit on it.

DanDan, thanks I'll try it again, I was worried I break something off.

have a nice weekend everybody
k, the one-day-non-officical-plus-owner

Sorry, forgot about the cargo net. I've had 2 VT6s and 2 Plusses and all had cargo nets, so I assumed they were standard.

Interesting question about availability of Plus bits, particularly the unique interior. Only the Plus had all the red stitched leather, as far as I know.

If you're looking at UK sourced cars for spares, the numbers don't look too good. According to "Howmanyleft" there were no Plusses registered by Q4 of 1998, which makes sense as it was a new variant of the 20VT put on sale here in 1999. By the end of 1999, 44 had been registered and the peak number of 166 was reported by Q4 of 2001, by which time the car was no longer on sale.

The graph showing registered cars had a slight peak above the 166 line before the end of 2001, so there may have been as many as 170 Plusses registered in the UK, assuming that maybe a handful were written off in the year 2001, but for the purposes of your question, 166 is the relevant number.

As of the third quarter of 2013, 99 of these were still registered on the road and 31 on SORN. Therefore, only 36 UK Plusses have disappeared since the end of 2001 and most of these will have been broken, if any salvage was possible, to provide parts for the remaining Plusses, or upgrades for other Coupés already in existence.

This is why Plus red stitched leather interiors are rarer than hen's teeth in the spares marketplace.

Personally, I would rather see any Plusses that get broken in the future, supplying parts to keep the existing 99 Plusses on the road and not used to make other Coupés look like Plusses.

So, the chance of finding all the bits to make your VT6 look like a real Plus are slim, if you rely on UK sourced cars, but Westies Plus proves that there are other markets that you can look in. Hers was originally registered in Malaysia, but I don't think you're limited to RHD markets, so you could search worldwide.

A simpler, but not necessarily cheap option, might be to get items retrimmed by a good vehicle upholsterer. The only real problem here, is that you still need Recaro style seats as a starting point.

By the way, you're VT6 is most likely more rare than a Plus. I believe that it's possible to show, by analyzing Coupé sales as the car was nearing the end of production, that there were less VT6s sold in the UK, than either Plusses or even LEs.

wow. I think I take a day off and start reading all your posts on this forum. I appreciate the effort and (can I say love?) the analytical approach to my silly questions.

So, let's say I can say goodbye to the idea of finding a set of Plus seats which are not covered by blood. And I also understand that I would be frowned upon (killed?) by _real_ Plus owners if I'd try to overbid any of them with my fake non Plus. Fair enough.

So, next item, steering wheel, if I give up the idea of having a Plus wheel, can I still get a decent one? without the stupid buttons on the airbag? All coupe steering wheels are exchangeable?

I guess I have to get my boot net from a motorbike store, they are usually the best source for these I was told. What's left, strut brace. Any suggestions where can I get one of those? Any decent non-oem ones out there? I will get them painted to red:)

Don't get me wrong. If you can get Plus bits for your car, fair play to you. Just an example, typical price secondhand for a set of standard dials is around £30, but for Plus/VT6 at least £120.

Supply and demand. If you can even find the bits you want and are prepared to pay the price, fair play to you. More important that you love your Coupe and want to keep it alive.

You might luck into a real Plus at silly money in Ireland. My sister and her husband live there and like you've pointed out, they say you can buy interesting cars for silly money, largely due to insurance and road tax issues.

At the moment, my brother-in-law is trying to track down an Alfa Romeo Montreal that he saw in poor condition, not being used, as he thinks I may be able to get it cheap.

So keep your eyes peeled.

Re-Pigman

( I hate to be pedantic, but you will never be able to turn it into a Plus. You may make it indistinguishable from a Plus, but it will not have been registered as a Plus from new.)

I take it that on the V5 it states that it is either a plus or le model, I have a vt6 and all it says is
Make - Fiat
Model - blank
Body type - coupe

The chassis on a Plus is very slightly different if you know where to look........... and no I'm not saying where

Welcome to the Coupé fold Levente

Usually the V5 will state if it's a Plus or LE. Both of my Plusses appeared so on the V5. The so called VT6, of which I've also had two, is just a 20VT on the V5. Fiat never called it a VT6. It was the standard 20VT, but benefitted from 6 speed box and a few other Plus bits.

I guess Fiat wanted to use up whatever was lying around as they had the last few cars built. VT6s sometimes have slightly different specs, it would seem.

That said, V5 is not 100% reliable. Presumably it's possible to check chassis number with Fiat to be certain.

For Plus owners wishing to benefit from Plus ownership, that's nice to know. Is my yellow Plus a Plus Joe?

Well I didn't want to say anything Pete but now that you've asked.................................

Don't do that to me......I'm Paranoid Pete already.

Would be interesting to know how many LE/Plus owners have their model identified on the V5

LE 0126 -v5- 20VT
I asked it to be changed when I moved, no reply, just a duplicate.

LE 20. V5 - Fiat Coupe LE

Interesting - howmanyleft suggests 99 Plus and 37 LE remaining registered last year (and under two hundred 16s of any flavour).

The doesn't include of course any in which the V5 doesn't list the title.

My comment "In 20 years time" thread:
"You might find that LE's become less rare by percentage as the model numbers reduce as they are perceived to be the "collector's" car and would carry a certain amount of cache and therefore be kept more and in better condition. Just a forward looking thought.
So as already mentioned, more "standard" models become rarer. Whether that means that they are more collectible? Remains to be seen, only the market will decide."

well, I'm going to drive it, not store it What is the difference in the chassis? I haven't got the reg book yet, but the online checks both reported it as "Fiat Coupe 2.0 T MY 1999"

I tried to search this forum, but didn't find the answers.
- Where do people get new and old parts from (i. e. any dismantler taking and not ripping Coupes apart)? I need a strut brace and a luggage net (belts and hoses I have covered).
- Is there a list of parts where there is a compatible Fiat/Alfa part, without the usual "sports car tax"?
thanks

Strut brace and other bits, EBay or one of the specialist coupe companies Listed on this link

Few developments today, as I brought in the car to a Fiat garage for a quick checkup.

I was quoted 1240 euros for a TB and WP change (it was done in August, 2009, 13k miles ago, so I'll buy the parts myself and bring it to my specialist 200 kms away to get it done.) I'll also order the aux belt pulley with the lip, and I'll get the coolant hoses replaced too.

I was worried that it has a problem with the engine/turbo, as it was a bit smokey (white) when starting up cold, and bringing the rev up to about 2500. When the engine gets hot, it's gone. Oil pressure is at 2.3-2.5 when idle, and constant 3 when not. The garage did a compression test, and all fine. I was told it could be the "valve stem oil seals" - isn't that supposed to cause blue smoke?

The ratchet for the driver seat is broken (the back of the seat doesn't move when I turn the plastic cogwheel), is it something I can get second hand?

Also, there are no more airbags (for the steering wheel) available, but I'm not sure if I want to buy a second hand airbag.... There is nothing wrong with it, but as I said the previous owner drilled it and put in two non-functional buttons, fast and furious style.

So, only a few weeks, and I have a perfect car. The first owner just told me that he got underbody of the Coupe fully rustproofed in early 2009, so at least that's off the list.

White smoke from cold is a classic sign of turbo oil seals, sounds like time to repair/replace/upgrade the turbo.

Bugger.

What do you mean by upgrade the turbo? Does the upgrade refer to performance upgrade or longetivity upgrade? If the second one, can you suggest a make/model?

There are quite a few turbos on ebay, is it something safe to buy second hand?

My V5 list model as; COUPE 20V TURBO PLUS.

So I understand you can't fit plus seats into a 20v Turbo, could be wrong.

I don't think you need to worry about white smoke so much! This can be water vapour in the exhaust system. If it goes after warm up I would not worry. When the turbo seals go, you know it. As you leave a massive dirty smoke trail behind you when accelerating.

I think you need to define what a bit smoky means to you. Most are smoky (white) during the winter on start up

I've got Recaros from a Plus in my 20vt.

I can post a video tomorrow morning. Interesting, the garage didn't mention the turbo, as a potential issue, and the exhaust was off the car for a while indeed (the car, as it was up for sale, had a "dustbin" exhaust, and it was a bit loud, so I asked the guy to put the original back)

So I talked to the garage, they say it's not the turbo, they are sure it's the valve stem oil seals, and I was told once the head is off I should get the piston rings replaced as well. For all this I was quoted 3k. With that, and the 4 new tyres, I'm bankrupt, but it's bloody worth it. But yous already knew that:)

Here is the video

Looks like most coupes on a cold winter morning! Probably just steam, fingers crossed.

looks like turbo seals

I tried that a few times, no luck. I even started to look for clocks with silver dial and yellow arms on Ebay.
Then, today, it worked. The difference between today and the other occasions was that I didn't have the inginition on today... interesting... I have so much to learn, even after owning two Alfas.

I'd be very cautious of committing to any engine work. As said above, that looks no different to many cars in the morning during winter. Certainly mine looks exactly like yours in the morning and I have a new turbo and valve stem seals.

Valve stem seal failure normally manifests itself as a puff of blue/grey smoke on cold start up after a night or two standing, or as a puff of smoke as you reapply the throttle after being on the overrun. I also would've expected the garage to have noticed deposits on the spark plugs if you had issue.

If it were my car I'd monitor oil usage. It's obvious when you have a problem, you'll get through lots of oil.

thank you szkom. the car is with my mechanic, he said the same thing, and we will know better when he fires up the car tomorrow morning. Timing belt, aux belt and probably rear wheel bearings are being replaced, stupid stickers removed, then hopefully good as new.
except now the clock stopped working on the dash.

If your airbag light has come on, that could just be a low charge issue at one time from your battery. Don't go replacing the clock spring until you have re-set the light and charged or changed the battery
Then run it for a little while

progress. Timing belt, aux belt, waterpump, chod, clutch slave cylinder etc etc being replaced by my trusted mechanic
http://italiancarclubireland.com/icciforum/download/file.php?id=3257&mode=view

I'm planning a driving holiday this summer in the Alps. Should I get a pair of second hand, continental headlights? If yes, where should I look for one?

thanks

When the engine was out to get the belts, rollers, tensioners, waterpump and CHOD replaced, some other jobs were done on the car as well:

new clutch kit, release bearing & slave cylinder
head skimmed, new head gasket and new valve stem seals
new turbo core
left rear wheel bearing
oils (10W60 fully synth for the engine) and filters

Now there is no smoke whatsoever, it is great fun to drive.

Now there is a faint smell of petrol, so I'd like to replace the two leaking pipes marked in pink here: http://1drv.ms/1pu8Ilm
There are no new pipes available from Fiat, how safe it is to use second hand pipes, and is there anybody here selling the pair of them?

Check that you still have the strain relief clip supporting those 2 pipes, a few inches back from where you've marked. If it's missing then the pipes will gradually get pulled and eventually leak. That happened on my 1st coupe after the Fiat dealer forgot to replace the strain relief clip when fitting a new engine.

If you still have the original Fiat hose clips then try replacing them with good quality screw down clips and you'll probably find that the leak is fixed.

Thanks for the help Graham

Here are 3 pictures of the pipe in question.

http://1drv.ms/1sWNS3K
http://1drv.ms/1sWNYbA
http://1drv.ms/1sWNZMO

The first one shows the connection where it leaks. Is there a clip missing from there somewhere?

You've got the clip at bottom right of 1st pic, so the issue is maybe just that the pipe has loosened a bit with heat/age and the Fiat hose clips aren't tight enough any more.

I'd replace the Fiat hose clips with good quality screw down ones and see how it goes.

I was hoping you'll say that... Thanks Graham, I ask my trusted mechanic to fix it for me.

so, after 2.5k+ miles of ownership driving "Popsika" is still an occasion and still puts a smile on my face. I started to notice a few "weird" things, so I thought I ask around.

1.) there is a clanking noise coming from under the right door, but after the car warms up it's getting rarer. I booked in the car for service to check it out, but I thought I mention it anyway.

2.) as soon as I start the car the oil pressure goes up to 3 bars, and it only goes down to 2.3-2.5 bars when idle. Is it OK?

3.) I have 10W60 fully synthetic oil in it (Mobil1), and it drinks ~1l every ~1k miles. Should I change it to 10W40 fully synthetic at the next oil change?

4.) I'd like to change the seats. I already have the new set. If the most complicated thing I ever did was replacing a light bulb in my wife's oven, how much time should I put aside, and what should I look out for? I looked up the topic in the Coupé Fiat book written by two members here, but it doesn't cover the topic (I hope because it's that simple).

thanks

P. S: I replaced the clips, it's much better but still a bit "wet" there

1. no idea.
2. yes.
3. no, it will use more oil.
4. 30 minutes.

Thank you, I keep the oil and tackle the seats over the weekend. I just remembered today that I forgot to mention 2 more things:

5.) sometimes the speedo drops 20 mph, then a few seconds later it jumps back to the normal reading
6.) the coolant temperature oscillates between 85 and 100 in 25-30 second cycles on motorway driving. Is this OK? The thermometer on my Alfa 166 usually stayed between 90 and 95. Do I have a slow termostat so I have to replace it? The coolant level is OK.

tia

the only comment i can add re: the seat is buy some stubby allen keys, access for the front bolts can be awkward without. good luck, it is a simple job - provided you dont have side-airbag seats?

5&6 - check your earth points, I'd suspect they are bad somewhere. Also get a battery / alternator health check as it could also be low voltage.

you are awesome people, thanks

Also check for loose nuts in the back of the instrument pack. The temperature running should be pretty constant at around 84 degrees (usually a touch under 80 indicated - but constant is the significant bit.)

You might be onto something... I have my lights always on, and on the dash the green light sometimes goes out, but if you knock on the top of the dash carefully at the right place it comes back again...

My mechanic hates me when I check in the car with random electronic issues

Since the weather was nice, I went out and bought a torx key to get the seats out. I started with the passenger seat, just in case I mess something up, I can still drive the car for help. Well, I failed. The new seat doesn't fit.

I looked at the rail at the bottom, but I don't think I can swap it over. Is there an adapter plate, or should I start crying? The seats and the P&P to Ireland was a lot of money. See the two seats.

old:
http://1drv.ms/Z1ArTi

new:
http://1drv.ms/Z1Awqc

What would you do?

no luck here, I open a new topic in the main forum about my seat swapping suffering