Re: 1998 20v Turbo £2500

Yeah and my brother has just travelled from Yorkshire to Swansea to view and buy this car the seller described as 'mint' only to be met with a car that looks good on the outside (apart from lots of overspray) then you lift the bonnet and the front cross member looks like its been bodged on after a possible collision then the clutch slips in third gear which the seller then admits to knowing about. But offers £150 off the price for something that's going cost £400 to fix.

My advice is stay away from this car un less the seller reduces to about a grand. FCCUK probably wont like me saying this but I hope if stamps down on dishonest sellers like this trying to push poor cars through the site

The cars a true minter, I am devastated about the clutch... I don't drive it for speed so when your brother gave it the full beans in 3rd my heart sank when I heard it slip. As for the overspray... Absolute rubbish, collision damage... Absolute rubbish. Your brother admitted he knew nothing about cars and Its sounds like your backing him up with your post.

I know your brother travelled a way and there's a bad taste. But no need to slag off something you don't know about.

I dropped £300 from asking price. It's a shame, but if he's only after speed then the £900 route will be more suited for him. He was a nice chap shame he didn't bring these items up face to face so I could have educated him on what a true minter actually is.

I do know about cars hence me dealing with you previously. You on the other hand seem to think its fine to sell a car with known issues in the hope that theyre not noticed which is very bad practise imo. Last ill say on the matter anyway as its a difference of opinion where one is being honest and one not so

The car is fully truthful in the advert, only item being the clutch in which I found out about the same time as your brother. I does sound like you know what your taking about.

It's a shame you weren't here, if you were I have a feeling you'd be driving away with it for £2200 knowing what a great car you'd just bought. As for your brother... He says one thing to your face and by the sounds of it a load of rubbish behind my back. Ouch!

I was going put a deposit down on this a couple of weeks back ,gutted as it looks lovely

Certainly doesn't look bodged in the pictures. Get a 3rd party inspection, AA or specialist.

I don't like it when people or things are slagged off online where its difficult to get proper validation of the facts. This thread already seems to have put one person off viewing.

I also thought the overall impression was of a good well presented car.

If it was me selling I'd ask a local, trusted member to view the car and give their opinion here, would set the record straight. FWIW although pictures can hide things, the car looks great to me.

Wheres the vin tag??

Indeed. That area of the car looks odd with a missing VIN plate indicating a repair may have been carried out previously. VIN should be stamped on top of driver's side suspension turret, and if a FIAT UK supplied car, etched onto the front window (and last part of VIN etched onto side and rear windows). If the paint sticker is also missing from under front edge of bonnet (to left of catch) then again that might indicate a front end repair at some time, or even just a respray and not necessarily anything sinister. But if there was a repair and it was done properly, there should be no reason to leave off the VIN plate? Repair may have been carried out before current ownership and not recorded as Cat D or Cat C, so current owner may be blissfully unaware. As for overspray, it may not be in obvious places, check wheel arch liners, wheels/tyres, window seals, etc.

http://s794.photobucket.com/user/chris1990_01/library/

Link to my photo bucket showing some of the work carried out by father as all the work has. I've got more pictures I'll try to upload soon.

As for the vin tag. I'll as my father to find it and get a photo for me. The car doesn't live with me as I've moved away from home, hence the sale

I've got a recipe for about £1500 from country cruising coming from the previous owner. So he might remember it if you want to ask him about it.

Do we have a new celebrity chef in the house? Sorry could not resist.

Those photos would have helped to prove some previous history, but I find it strange, bizarre even, that Christian never mentioned the complete respray (although clearly not a "glass out" respray) and seemed to take offence at the suggestion that there was some overspray? There's plenty of overspray in evidence in the n/s/r wheel arch!

The more pictures the better when it comes to selling: the less effort you put in to the advert in terms of photos and details of past work etc., the less people will be interested, and the less money you will get for the car.

And rather than assuming any new owner wil ring CC to get details of previous work, list the details from the receipt yourself!

On this point, to be fair, it was mentioned in the original ad -




The other issues, however......

OK fair point, apologies for missing that, but if the odd pic of the respray had been included originally, I would not have missed it! Hopefully it's all a bit of a misunderstanding and with a bit more effort from the seller (and a missing VIN plate) what looks like a good Coupe will have a new home soon...

Sounds reasonable!

lol!! Thats what using a ipad does to you, it constantly thinks it knows better!

http://s794.photobucket.com/user/chris1990_01/profile/

Here we go lads, uploaded more pictures from last night... and if I can blow my own trumpet, what a lovely car I own!

Here's a few pictures proving the VIN Number and to prove that there is NO over-spray anyway....... At all! This car is starting to feel like a witch hunt now is its a bit silly.

The car is beautiful, No rust anywhere (wheel arches, etc), interior immaculate, oil pressure brilliant, Never been in a crash, No CAT A,B,C,D and so on and on!! No dodgy cross member!

You guys have followed the clueless poster from Yorkshire who knew nothing about a car except the acceleration pedal.

Anyway, if your interested come and see it. Also the 68 Dodge Charger you see in my photobucket account was also resprayed by my father(full nut and bolt resto acrried out by himself) and has wan countless shows, even national ones on its condition.

Clueless no. Show a picture of the overspray on the window rubbers. Show a picture of the scratch on the back bumper. Show a picture of the poorly fitted carpet on the passenger side door. Tell everyone about the wiper pump which didn't work. I won't continue but there's more to add to the list that I felt didn't class it as a mint car which it was advertised as. Secondly a drive all that way to find the clutch had gone and then offered 150 quid off an agreed price of 2350 was the final nail in the coffin when a new clutch would cost me around 400 quid. I'll leave it there and wish you good luck with the sale. Someone might like it but it wasn't for me.

Good luck

Interesting to see the last 3 service stamps from "DN Davies" which is not your local Fiat garage/specialist but instead appears to be a road freight forwarding company with none other than OP's father being a director (and for some reason, the OP's chosen "handle")

Come on Christian, we're happy to give honest opinions, but you've got to be honest with us! Show us the VIN tag!

Do you want me to give you the number of one his mechanics? Well hgv mechanics as that's his business... Road haulage. I trusted them to change the oil anyway ha ha

The vin number is stamped on the suspension turret and in the window. I've covered a few numbers so no one can steal it. If it was a plate, surely it then can be stolen and placed on another coop???

Do you think my bro got his mate to drive him from Hull to Swansea (570 mile round trip) for a laugh with the readies in his pocket? Or just to slag the car off? No he wanted to buy it, was really looking forward to getting another Coupe but was disappointed that a car that described as mint wasn't so.

The seller slags off my brother like he knows nothing but he knows enough that a mint car which isn't mint should be questioned. He didn't want to offend by being one those people who agrees a price then tries to haggle down over stuff so rang me instead with the issues that had been mentioned and I said £1800 tops and he said he wouldn't even pay that which im glad he did as the car has various 'unanswered questions' about it and isn't used which is not a good recipe for reliability imo

What answers haven't been answered? I wish he never came down to be honest, he's ruined a great car. Throw another chancer question out for me to answer. I go out with my camera now

Answer this post then or did you conveniently forget it?

Another issue with this seller. Hes one of those who buys a car for say £1000 then spends £2000 on it then thinks its worth £3000. He kept telling my bro it was worth £4000 all day long even when the clutch had started slipping. It doesn't work like that in this world mate so wake up!

I bought this coop in 2009 off a forum user called Jacob and paid £2500 for it. I said to your brother it's so sad how coupe prices are so low. Then I went on to say this car deserves to valued for £4500 and then le's and plus's should be worth £6500 to £7000. As the reputation of these vehicles deserves more.

Any other silly things he said?

Still ignoring the other post I see

This is tragic, so you want a picture of the carpet interior, back bumper (where about please?) your not worth it.

I have to ask in the pictures is that a 68 charger? Se or r/t model v8? the coup look nice.

Yeah it's a 68 charger, just a 383.. No rt or se edition. Think the se edition was only in the 69

Looks like it might be here


and the following pic, no.73.

Since the slam panel is in prep stage presumably the VIN tag came off prior to full respray and has not been replaced/been mislaid.



IMHO these items are not major ones - perhaps not a "minter" but mostly cosmetic. The rest of the car is giving a good impression of being attractive whilst not showing potential rust areas like the boot.
The clutch was a bit of a bummer though and more likely to be the deal breaker.

The VIN plate looks to have been removed whilst the slam panel was being refurbed, although the stickers have been taped over (the one on the left with a load of E numbers, the one on the right with yellow warning pictures for something or other). The VIN plate could just as easily been taped over unless it was rusty underneath. If the VIN plate has been lost however then that is a very big mistake IMHO.

Agree, not having the original VIN plate would put me off quite bit, bit like a red key thing, effectively inconsequential, but constantly nagging at back of mind.

Please keep personal comments out of this thread. By all means exchange questions and answers about the car, but any more "he said - she said" will result in action being taken.

Thank you.

She looks beautiful to me, and seems like a fair price.

I may well be interested in this dndavies, can I just clear a few things up though? I'm not worried about a bit of overspray if there is any, but how badly does the clutch slip, would I be able to get it home to birmingham? Also is the price dropped accordingly? I'm not worried about the wiper pump but are there any other things, I'm not getting Into the he said..etc it looks mighty fine to me, just it would be a fair drive to come and take a look, thanks..

If the clutch is slipping a bit, or all the time - It needs changing,

I have read this thread right through, And agree with the OP, It seems like a witch hunt! Give him a break, I have Viewed/bought dozens of Coupes, Some from FCCUK members - Some had epic defects not advertised, I just walked away and took it on the chin, Some I bought & STILL took it on the chin, These are old cars & if you want MINT, pay £5000+ or buy a 2011 car that isnt a Coupe,..

I wasn't having a go at all! I agree with the OP too! I realise the clutch will need replacing, I just wondering how bad it was and if I'd be able to drive it the 150 odd miles back to birmingham to get it done.

I'd have been tempted with this Broom being scond only to Sprint. If anyone is worried ask to get JBT or another specialist to check it over. To hassle the OP seems unfair, I'd have pulled the ad by now.

The clutch will happily get you to Birmingham, only under boost in 3rd it go's

Haha, trust me I have felt like pulling the Ad. But if I do... It will probably start a bigger witch hunt off. Started to wish I'd paid the 12 pound for eBay rather than the free Ad here ha ha

some peoples idea of mint condition differs from someone elses idea of mint condition.I personally don't like the word mint a totally mint car to me is a brand new car.I must admit the car looks great in the pictures and it does look very clean any anybody that goes looking for a genuine totally mint coupe for £2500 is in dream land.I was going to buy duffys old car it the price dropped to £4500 that was a very clean car so surely this car is worth £2200 even with a duff clutch looks a good buy to me

I have moved all posts to here, as they shouldn't be in the Coupes For Sale thread.

Don't be put off! Your car looks stunning. As baz says though, I'd use the word "mint" with a bit more caution in future.

Mint to me means showroom condition.

In classic car circles that means faultless.

Must admit, nice looking car though.

I think the car looks great. Not too far from me as well!!

This missus would not be impressed if I bought another!!

The car is obviously not mint but in my opinion well worth the price tag

My bro lives in Hull, this car is in Swansea, I rang about the car to be told the car was MINT. Not my choice of words but the sellers. My bro draws the cash from the bank, gets a mate to take him which is a full day there and back and 500 miles, he also transfers his insurance over from his previous Coupe. When my brother arrived he thought yeah looks great and the seller takes him for a spin without pushing it. My bro then has a drive and having owned a Coupe 20VT that was in fine fettle till loss of compression knows how they drive. He puts his foot down in third gear and the clutch slips to his massive disappointment. The seller offers £150 off but we know its a £400 job as he had one done on his previous Coupe. Now did the seller know this and was chancing it hoping a buyer wouldn't floor it or was it new to him? Only the seller knows. Then my bro starts noticing other little things that make it less than mint too and decided to walk away with a day wasted and £80+ costs of fuel in the bin plus the cost of changing insurance (£30)

Now if you guys think that this Coupe is good value at £2200 with a knackered clutch, no Vin plate, hardly any MOT and questionable integrity of the seller then go for it. Both me and my brother are glad he didn't though

Can't disagree on clutch issue, that is naughty and I'd be pretty disappointed too.

On the mint issue, I still think unless you've seen a worklog detailing every area of the car and it's condition (...duffys old Coupe!) then any expectations of a true minter are naive, regardless of what the seller says.

As previously mentioned, people say mint all the time which can mean anything from extremely good to showroom. Eyes not ears

It's a tough time of the year to be selling any car let alone a coupe.

Might be worth holding off until spring/early summer.

Good luck.

Yeah I know, trying to sell it over christmas is a bad idea. I know it would be from the start. I want it gone by April as I'll have a mortgage going through around that time and I looking for a bit more for the deposit. Thanks for the luck though!!

I've just sold my mint 98 20vt,no issues at all,full service history,recent belt changes etc,£1300.This was after numerous 500-600 quid offers,i actually feel 'relieved' to have sold it for £1300.I paid 1200 for it,spent at least a grand on it.Took me two months to sell it.This will give you a comparison for the car being discussed here and its £2200 price.

Congrates on the sale Robbo, sorry you only got £1300.
Bit surprised you only managed to spend a total of £2200 on it!!

This car is easily worth what the buyer is asking. A low mileage example in a very desirable colour.
Stick a clutch in it, sort a few niggles and it's a 3k car all day long in my eyes.

I think there are certain colours that struggle to sell even with big jobs done.

I've spent more than this on a Coupe and it still needed work. No one is going to find a mint coupe at this price. I think the OP got the price right for what it is.

The word "MINT" raised its head again and a mint one selling for £1300 well the buyer must have goy a bargain then.I have a year old bmw 3series coupe msport with 10000 miles on the clock I would not describe that car as mint due to a mark on one wheel as I said before some peoples idea of mint and and my idea of mint are miles apart.Surely a clean good mileage coupe without any issues is worth £3000 I think the seller has priced it right considering clutch. I am quite surprised it has not sold but this discussion cant be helping with any sale good luck with the sale

Urban dictionary says

Mint condition.

"A condition where something is perfect or as if it was originally manufactured, A state where something has no flaws"

In my opinion and my short time on the forum, I've only came across one coupe I'd consider to be "mint" and that was the Electronic blue coupe Motormech had for sale last year.

I was lucky even to see it and it really was something special

Strictly - 'mint condition' refers to the condition of a coin as it leaves the mint. The correct term for a car would probably be 'showroom condition'.

But a term like that is so subjective, it means neither something nor nothing; it's just noise.

Certainly doesn't mean the kind of "mint" that a friend of mine from Yorkshire insists on saying:

"Ah thas mint mate!"

"Totally mint!"

"Well mint"

"Proper mint I tell thee"

To give you some examples.

I've read all the posts , give the guy a break indeed nice coupe , lots of work done if you don't like like it walk away and move on , simples , good luck with sale buddy

Haha that's something my old man used to say about today's chart music

As I said at the time, it was probably one of the best Coupes I'd ever seen, but in the original advert I didn't use the word "mint", as there were enough very minor defects to regard it as "not quite mint"

I once travelled to Selby in Yorkshire, chauffeured by my son in Barnacle's old Punto 1.1 on the hottest day for years, only to find that the "imacculate" metallic red plus at a specialist sports car dealer was in fact, rather rusty and with signs of previous damage. I had the cash in my pocket and was already congratulating myself on finding what looked like a very shiny car, but a few minutes of underbody grovelling and carpet-pulling revealed rust in all the usual places and a few unusual places too. I walked, but not until I'd made my feelings known about the state of the car.

I've always been overly-honest whenever writing an advert and I find that its an approach that serves me well, as I never get any come-backs. However. we're talking a couple of grand's worth of nearly 15 year old fiat here, not some proper exotica (despite what we sometimes think). At this end of the market, we shouldn't be getting all anal about a bit of poetic license in an advert - "caveat emptor" and all that.

perhaps we should be asking more questions before arranging to view a car, especially when travelling any appreciable distance. However, we're never going to get past the fact that "mint", "clean", immaculate or any other superlative is always going to be a subjective viewpoint and is likely to be biased in favour of the current owner

I know threads often go off topic, but I've never describe my car as mint so why is that all is being spoken about? The only guy that will probably say I called it mint is the Yorkshire chap who didn't buy it. And trust me I never describe it as mint to him

Start a 'Meaning of mint' thread off! Ha

Dndavies, don't take thistle heart. This crops up with nearly every car. If I turned up for a 2500 quid coupe I wouldn't expect anything more than average mileage and average condition, anything more would be a bonus. It's idiots who think that you can get a concourse (this is the term most should use as it's a defined standard, not mint and showroom, who's showroom would it be in?) car for that price. There are also plenty of people on here who love to undervalue and / or nit pick.
It's not a Ferrari, it's a bloody 20 year old fiat, get over it!

DYAC!

Jesus, I even reckoned to check! Bloomin' flower of Scotland!!
(that leaves the Christians and Scots open to murder me I believe).....

£2200 and the opening poster is complaining about a poorly fitting carpet, a scratch on the bumper, and a wiper pump not working. Really? get a grip. If you dont like it dont buy it. What followed instead seems incredibly harsh in my opinion.

Just playing devil's advocate here...

#1521559 - Yesterday at 18:35


#1519813 - 31/12/2014 12:46

Yes I do now recall you saying it wasn't quite mint Nigel, did the buyer ever register on here do we know?

dndavies just so your aware I'm not trying to be negative about your car, I'm only putting my opinion across on the whole "mint" dilemma.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... You should sell or try to sell your car for what you think it's worth

Now that might mean you'll have it for awhile but I'm pretty sure it will sell eventually and whilst I'm in the habit of repeating myself, good luck with the sale.

Doesn't matter what car it is or how much it's worth.
If I turned up to see a car that was described as mint only to find the clutch slipped and other little niggles, I would want appropriate an price reduction or I would walk. (and moan my ar*e off at driving all that way to see it!)

If I believed that a mint coupe was for sale for £2,200 I wouldn't be stupid enough to believe it in the first place. There are very few "bargains" in this world, anyone selling a car on here should have a clue about what it's worth.

Moaning about carpets not fitting and a scratch is petty - clutch slipping is an inconvenience, you could agree with the vendor to have it repaired and then collect or an appropriate reduction.

To moan and cry about it is pretty childish.

I drove to Portsmouth to look at a coupe that was "excellent". It wasn't, it hadn't had a belt change, it wouldn't idle, buttons on the dash were broken and various other little items. I discussed with the garage, he wouldn't budge appropriately so I drove home. 640 miles on a Sunday morning (5am, home around 1pm) I didn't moan. These are old cars, second hand and many run on a shoe string. Lower your expectations or buy a new Corsa or some such generic box.

The initial advert never used the word "mint" at all. So he turned up to find a car that had a slipping clutch and the price was then dropped as a result. The rest would appear to be just petty points. Even if it was advertised as mint, then assumming your interpretation of this is to not have a single fault throughout the entire car, the price should indicate to you that this couldnt possibly be the case.

As i said, if he didnt like the car then dont buy it. There was no need for the rest.

Once again, there is no scratch and no badly fitted carpet. Just cheap shots by the Yorkshire chap. Is South wales really that far away from everyone!? Come and have a look for yourselves

At the end of the day he didn't buy it hopefully somebody will for the price it's worth
Lets all move on

Just sell it on pistonheads or ebay...far easier!

What defines a true mint coupe? And what would it be worth?

From these two variables could we not have some kind of sliding scale?

Sliding scale? Slippery slope more like!

I guess they're still only worth what someone will pay. Why would you want to sell a coupe anyway!

It's mintness will be define by whether it has a hole in it (Polo) or stripes (Everton) and as always, it will be worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

There is no intrinsic value beyond the cost of manufacture in *any* car - it's always what someone will pay.

No more, no less.

Mine's insured for ten grand but that's the replacement value - I have no doubt that anyone would pay that for it. *I* wouldn't, and it's mine!

Mint in the North of England - ie where the car is and I am - means good. Nothing more, nothing less.

As in;

Nice car man

Yeah, it's well mint

If you want mint, go to Kendal

Humbug

With the prices the way they are at the moment you could well get a 'mint' coupe for less than 2200 and a slipping clutch
is a bit more than an inconvenience in my book.
That is a decent chunk of cash and I think the buyer was entitled to be p*ssed off.
If you aren't bothered about wasting 640 miles worth of fuel you must have money to burn BM!

I prefer extra strong mints!

To be fair I bought my car after being told it was mechanically good, and minus the bonnet chips and slight lacquer peel on the rear of the roof all was knob on. I drive 140 miles to London towing a trailer in a very thirsty 4.4 Range Rover to find two big scratches down either side of the car, it looked twice as bad as in the pics and it didn't lock. Was up for £999 and battled for over an hour to get him down to 820.

Minus the bodywork (could care less when I'm inside) and the steering rack which failed almost instantly the car is beautiful. I would have paid £1500 for that car if it was posted at it.

The problem I find with coupes more than anything else out there is there's about 4 to 8 for sale at a time, some 600 quid to a grand and then the rest 2500 up to seven grand and it's pot luck.

In regards to the op, I would personally not be fussed even slightly about the carpets. I wouldn't care if there was no carpets or leopard print carpets. Secondly this is the risk you take buying something that is obviously going to have the biased opinion of both the seller and the owner, and finally if that was your biggest issue with the car (clutch slipping) then fight to resolve the issue, barter harder for even half way at £200-300 and say all this at the time to the seller to drive the price down.

I understand you was very upset about the situation but complaining on the forum unfortunately created more issues than what it is worth, you are probably better off using that energy to find another coupe with no problems...and some well fitted carpets

Stunning coupe . Good luck with the sale mate. This coupe has made me think about returning to coupe ownership for the 4th time! Gorgeous motor in the best colour

Noticed the car back up for £3000 on ebay. Just want to say I've sold it and its not me who has posted the advert before your witch hunt starts

Was the clutch fixed?

I hope so, was going down with intention of buying, mot tester meant to have bought it, doest mention clutch,, all good though got a viewing on a nice coupe on Monday.

hi mate, i have just sent a message about this car on

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-COUPE-20V...mMakeTrack=true

and got this response..

Yes they have both been done and the receipts are there, I think the clutch was done about 20000 miles ago and the timing belt about 9000 miles ago
The car is beautiful

is the new buyer pulling a fast one has said the clutch was replaced 20k ago?

Clearly

This listing was ended by the seller because there was an error in the listing.

I wonder if he bought it not knowing the clutch was slipping?