n/a owner tempted by vt

Will I go to hell for even thinking about this? I was reading about the magical 20vt third gear thrust on the Forum last week and now, while in third in my Vis, I just think about what I might be missing out on. This is what's needling me at the moment :- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1999-FIAT-COUPE-20V-TURBO-RED-/291354271092?fromMakeTrack=true . Getting back to my reality, my Vis is just about sorted now, whereas if I buy this I will be starting all over again. I've messaged the p seller about the date of cambelt change and mot advisories. I love the tan interior and I also have a thing about T plate cars . Is it just my fevered flu addled state of mind or a life affirming proposition?

I've owned all the models and yes the extra power is nice.
However, the 16v na is a better driving experience, that's why I have an na.
All depends on personal taste, I like winding country roads in the middle of nowhere, I hate life sucking motorways and straight meaningless roads.
. In my opinion NA hands down for drivers.

Just out of interest, how do you think the various models differ in how they drive?

After a holiday in Italy 18 years ago, coming across quite a few Coupes, I had to have one so I test drove a 20V and a 20VT before ordering my 20V. I found the 20V more involving but in a different (much lower) league performance-wise. This could have been because there VT seemed just too fast for modern speed limits and too easy to just point and shoot.

Mainly though, I was worried about he complexity of the turbo so went for the 20V. Reliability-wise, I'm not disappointed. The little coupe has cost me very little to run and it still runs very well. However, the lack of speed is frustrating at times when most modern diesels are faster. Considering adding a 5.0 XKR to the collection! Also complex and probably far too fast for anyone to use fully, even in Germany.

I've had a 16vt, 20v VIS & 2no. 20vts and the turbos win hands down!

Yes, they are a lot more expensive to maintain, but it's definitely worth it. You won't be dissapointed with a standard 20vt! My current 20vt has been modified to run at around 290bhp, but to be honest that was a bit much for day-to-day driving. So i've set the boost a bit lower and it's probably running around 250bhp and i'm much happier with it!

I took my 20V VIS on a big trip to Spa-Francorchamps, the Nurburgring, the San Bernardino Pass and to Monaco. It was brilliant and didn't miss a beat.................. but, i wish i'd done it in a turbo!

There isn't much difference in the handling, but you can't beat the kick of the turbo!!

The main diference is the power delivery, the turbo models I found myself waiting for the turbo as with most turbo cars no spool up no power.
Na power is always available and as its a smooth delivery it feels fast but smooth and safe.
Then there is the sound, I like the warble of the 20v, but I love the rasp of the 16v na.
On winding roads, the best in my opinion, turbo cars are constantly fighting with the traction control and the turbo is redundant.
The na models just give what they have with no restrictions and it makes for a much better experience.
These are just my opinions and not meant in any way to put down turbo models.

The 16v n/a is a "purer" drive - lots more feel and much more of a mechanical involvement with the driver. Throttle response that most 20vt owners would die for. However, its not a fast car - I once had to give mine a good thrashing to beat a Prius up a hill. I reckon the Prius driver was giving it a pasting, but that's not the point - I nearly got beaten by a bloody Prius!

20VT, even standard, is a quick car. bearing in mind how old it is, the fact that its on a par with some fairly decent current-model hot-hatches is amazing. Allow the Coupe a few modifications to bring it up to date and its still the giant-killer it was when it was launched

Personally, I find the 20vt a much easier drive - high gearing and lots of torque means it can be wafted if the mood or road conditions dictate.

For the OP - the VIS is probably the best of both worlds - five-pot engine noise, decent torque and modern behaviour. Have it remapped and its probably the best everyday Coupe still available (right up to the point where you want to go quickly, in which case, forced induction is surely the only answer.... )

Has the OP ever driven a 20VT? - If you haven't, I would suggest a lengthy test drive is required

Without a doubt the na versions are more reliable, as long as service intervals, belt changes, quality oil, is respected.
Turbo put alot more stress on components and obviously heat which is also a factor.
I've seen 16v na do 160k without any major work needed.
My 16vt was on its 3rd turbo at 115k, and 1 head gasket.
20v snapped belt at 48k, then engine failed at 98, rings went.

Pretty much on the nail.
I find my 16v ma pretty quick its all standard low miles.
I am a trained driver though, police trained. And im pretty sure I can get a 16 or 20v na across the peak district faster than I can get my old turbo coupes.
Might even make it alive lol..

I think all the old folk here know my point of view; I've owned 16NA and 20VT, driven all, including Joe's 2.4VIS and 'enthusiastically' modified 20VTs, and I have a 20VT engine in the kit car.

But the one I'm spending the money on is the 16NA for exactly the reasons pjdm quoted: it's the best car to drive. For an autobahn, 20VT - it's a GT - but for a drive across Scotland, the 16NA every time.

Your mileage may of course vary...

Depends how you look after them. Nigel's the star 240k on a 20vt on a very reasonable amount of power. Heat and stress are irrelevant, the engine is designed to be blown and therefore has components to suit. It's also 130 bhp / 100 lbs under it's maximum load before you start worrying about cranks, rods and pistons.

A turbo may be a tad slower off boost, but I can happily not rev past 1.7k rpm and change up without worry that it'll run out of puff.
As far as "and na is better low down" - I don't get this, if I'm driving hard I rev a car so am on boost, if I want to be steady I don't care about the low end power. I can still get mid 30's on the motorway if being sensible.
I think the big difference is the way the power makes the steering feel, the lower power cars feel more steady on their feet / more planted as they don't have the same ability to cause torque steer, front end fish tail and that arse nipping front end wash when you realise you've just pressed the peddle a bit too soon!

Wish I could share my experience a bit. however after buying my 20 vt the turbo broke down, only recently got it sorted and now I am going back to the garage cause after a week of driving I don't feel any turbo kick at all, not even in 3e gear. it goes fast don't get me wrong, just no kick. Think there might be something wrong again so having it checked next week. therefore sadly I cant comment cause I can't compare between this 20 vt and my old 16 vt.

Is there much difference ratio wise between the gearboxes. I'm guessing the 20vt is MUCH higher geared than the NA models.

A factor of 5:6

There is no arguing with experience.

Its 16v NA that's the best hehee.

Oh boy! That was a bit of an avalanche of info and opinions! I better make an attempt to return this to the OP's original question.

These cars are 15+ years old and I'm not sure how many people still extract the last ounce out of them. I don't, but I never have done. Also, even though the packaging looks the same, the VTs are significantly quicker cars and it looks like, from character, also rather different. I remember my test car as being "heavier" beefier, and pretty dam quick. It is too late for me to buy a VT simply because they are too old and will need too much care, for which I don't have the time (and too many other old cars to add one of unknown heritage). But just like HiraethHuw, I would like more pace. I'm going about it a different way though.

HiraethHuw, give the VT a try and see what you think. You might want both! Speed is intoxicating but the involving and "alive" way the standard cars can be made to flow through the countryside is hard to match. They are old cars but still very likable.

hear hear, better than my 20v anyway

Flea's chip for the 16NA is worth a few percent improvement in power and a smoother drive - the 4k 'step' in power is gone.

Its down to preference at the end of the day.
Lots of great opinions and info.
I drove a road today that used to infuriate me in my 16/20vt up and down the box, tight hilly bends, and yet a pleasure in the na.
Yet on a duel carriagway I miss the point and shoot.
Im sure when im heading to Milan this year I will wish I was in a turbo, until I get there
Good thread.

on a normal Sunday, you would probably be quicker on a moped, but if the roads were clear (of traffic AND cameras) a non-turbo Coupe wouldn't see which way a 20vt went over the Peak district

unless you were using the really fidgety little back lanes, a 20VT would get to use its "magic 3rd gear" a lot. The open A roads that criss-cross the Peaks are proper 20vt hunting grounds - 30-130 being the range where the turbo is most effective.

having said that, my most memorable peaks drive was in the Alfa GT diesel last year - M6 was closed at Stoke, needed to get to Leeds, so detoured over the Peaks to Sheffield and then up to Leeds - weather was truly awful, with horizontal rain and strong winds and only just above freezing, but the roads were open and empty and I was on winter tyres - great fun and proof that power isn't everything (although the GT still has a turbo, so maybe it is....)

I live in N. Devon and my previous and current mapped 20vt is excellent fun on the roads round here, steady when you want and looney when you want.
Go for it.
p.s. That is avoiding the link road etc!

The NA and turbo are very different beasts. To 40mph they are very equal (and I have a rather cool video of beating a 300bhp turbo from a standing start to 40mph). After 40mph bets are off, although depending on the road and the driver who knows!

I've owned two 20v NAs (one VIS), one 16VT and a LE 20VT. The non-VIS sounded the best of all, the LE bought most occasion to a drive, the VIS felt quicker than the non-VIS, the 16VT felt altogether different to the rest!

All amazing cars and too cheap for what they are.

Although not a direct comparison the Vis HGT Bravo (same engine as the coupe) feels quite lazy against my 20 valve turbo; it just doesn't rev as freely as I'd like for a NA, and it doesn't provide the same urgency the turbo gives. For me, the 5 cylinder suits a turbo.

What a fantastic response - thank you all. What a great forum we have here. Still don't know which car to have mind .
I most miss the power when over-taking slower traffic. But with more power would I be safer (less time on the wrong side of the road), or just over-take where I wouldn't at the moment or more cars in the line 'cos I'd be quicker? Ha!

Also, when I have over-taken, slowing down afterwards is boring - if I was in a turbo this speed would be higher. I too like challenging roads - lots of stick stirring, braking and powering out. The n/a is low geared, but that helps keep my top speed lower.
I guess then, after reading my own words, I'm an n/a owner for a reason. A fruity exhaust and a Flea map is my way forward. (Still awaiting a response to my queries on the turbo car though).
Update: Advisories _ just one for smoked headlights and cam belt changed in 2010.
I've calmed down since yesterday and London is 130 miles and lots of speed cameras and other trappings of civilisation from Hereford so I going to leave it for now.
And no, I've never driven a turbo, apart from a mis-firing Mg Maestro turbo, which felt good when it wasn't being sick. Does this count? Should I, or will it just open the door to vast expense on a new project car and in turn lead to an unhappy wife n kids?

Some important questions to answer;
1: What sort of roads do you drive on most?
2: How often do you like to 'give it the beans' and overtake?

A Turbo or N/A will both need good maintenance/expenditure to make them reliable so it really comes down to what kind of power delivery you prefer and what sort of roads you use most.

I think if you test drove a 20vt you would find the boost quite addictive.

Not sure about the Maestro, things have moved on a bit. Have you ever driven a modern turbo diesel?

Even TDs are great for overtaking. Effortless torque and mid range shove.

I like my N/A though a turbo would be nice. However, there are ultimately more costs involved in maintaining a Coupe turbo. If like me, you like a bit of speed, a Turbo won't do your driving licence much good either !

Point and shoot isn't addictive to any real driver?? Surely??

A smooth even power delivery in and out of bends for me.

I can't remember when I last overtook anyone in any of my cars its another thing that shouldn't interest a driver.

My opinions only.

My family car is a 252bhp tdi I still don't race,overtake,point and shoot. Its Driven.

I sold my vt's for a reason which is I crave the pure driving experience.

I joined the Lincs police and in 1996 became a Vehicle surveillance operative. Ad you would imagine my driving training was extensive. I guess I was taught a certain style of driving which I suppose fits in better with NA cars, and in a way im brainwashed.
But I class myself as a profesionaly trained driver and like to think I know a little bit about it

Problem is point and shoot is about all you can do with most journeys and traffic volume.
You can only do 'pure driving' as you put it on a track these days.

It is possible to get a turbo Coupe to be more than just point & shoot, but the problem is then that you're travelling so quickly that overtaking becomes a major part of the journey - if you don't overtake, you just end up being part of the traffic and you might as well be in a Nissan Micra at that point.

Just like the N/A having to be kept in the powerband to make decent progress, a turbo Coupe can be driven at high revs to keep the turbo spooled - its huge fun and because of the extra speed, the acceleration, braking and cornering forces are exaggerated.

Sunday morning drive across the peak district is usualy just man and machine and the occasional walker.
I did much of my training on a track and frankly it does nothing for me.
its way to risky overtaking on main roads these days.
My perfect road, consists of me and my car and knowone else.
Oh lots of hills and corners.

i would agree with this - its just SO nice to be able to make "good progress" without being hindered by those that are choosing NOT to make good progress...




I disagree with this, especially when you have lots of power Whilst its is great when the traffic evaporates and you're left with a clear road, its increasingly rare, so you're faced with a simple choice - sit in the traffic and waste the opportunity to have some fun on a great road or make a swift, decisive overtake and get on with enjoying yourself.

one of the many enjoyable aspects of a turbo'd Coupe is the ability to despatch slower traffic with ease. With a lot of expensive mods and double the power, it suddenly becomes very easy to get past whole strings of traffic in one go. The only disadvantage is that other drivers tend to get all high and mighty when they are overtaken and some get close to frightening themselves off the road because they have no concept of the capabilities of a decently-quick car.

IIRC from my IAM days, 'Roadcraft' positively encourages overtaking (where appropriate and safe) in order to get on with the task at hand - being a responsible motorist, I'm happy to comply...

Sorry but I have to agree with Nigel on this one.
It's only risky if you have an N/A.

Now that tickled me Dazvr6!!

It's true though, never felt so confident overtaking as when I had my 20vt.

The GT with its 200bhp is close, but you can't just engage 3rd gear and plant it, you're changing gear every few seconds to keep in the torque curve.

Only an idiot would ever feel nervous overtaking

Though... I've said this before, so apologies to those that have previously heard it:

The coupe takes me an hour less, give or take, between the end of the A74 and the Isle of Skye, than the more powerful Cupra 20vt.

I'm not speaking of ragging it through the highlands, just making decent progress close to the speed limit when the road conditions are suitable. But it is so much easier to overtake in the slower coupe; I'm convinced people see it coming up behind it and make space, whereas they see the cupra and it's just another hatchback.

Has anyone offered the original poster a go in their turbo?!

Some borderline ludicrous posts pj - well done!

Owned a 16V N/A for several years. Can say the same of my 328bhp turbo plus which I still own now.
Off boost the turbo pulls like any other sedate car and is perfectly driveable in city traffic. The N/A always felt woefully underpowered. An observation made the first time I drove it, before I'd ever been in a turbo coupe.

Reliability at least in part comes down to care and maintenance. My plus has never left me stranded anywhere or even failed to start. It's very well looked after and yet most significant costs have been through choice rather than necessity.

I recall the 16V N/A had better steering feel but let's keep a sensible perspective on this, that's the only thing it did better and even then the difference is somewhere between mild and moderate, certainly not extreme. Driving my N/A hard gave the sense of total vehicular domination, great fun but easy to find *my* limit. Maybe takes a bit more time to get the same confidence pushing extremely hard in a 20VT but exactly as Nigel says that comes with high speed thrills aplenty. The 'point and squirt' mentioned here stems from the need to come back down from silly speeds the turbo piles on in seconds, but having that extra power doesn't preclude carrying speed round a bend or applying throttle in a controlled manner.

IMO the 20VT (especially when modified) is more likely to have talents that exceed those of its driver. On that basis I submit that it's more rewarding for a 'spirited' drive.

As a lot of you do Spa every year, are there any comparative lap times available?

Im not sure track driving can be compared to a winding country lane, hence track times?
this thread is getting abit turbo vs na which is kind of daft.
But to say a turbo car off boost is as fast as an na is not correct sorry just totaly wrong.

Spa is no contest; it's a fast track and the 20vt is 30mph faster down the straights. But the 16NA is braking later into the corners and taking more speed through them, though it can't keep up on the straights.

Though I did manage to take six 20vt at the same time into La Source under braking...

On the other hand, while it's not as fast as all, it's quicker than some around Curborough, in the wet.

But as Phil says: that's not the point.

Yeah I didn't give the track layout much consideration. Question only intended as a talking point, nothing more. Think we can all agree driver ability is key difference, albeit still not the point.

@pj - Opening line there was just a quip so hope not taken the wrong way.

Not at all m8.

I agree its down to the driver, would love to see a good 16v na and a vt going at it round a short course, and then a long course track.
Id let my car be used for that I recon.
Id bet 16v would take short course and vt long.

I've not driven a NA coupe so can't shout too much, but I love the 20vt for its grunt.
I guess my marea was close to a NA coupe lol, same floor pan and much less power, weight up front.

No - the 20vt will beat the 16v N/A regardless of the track - its just that on really tight twisty tracks, the N/A won't be left behind by anywhere near as much. On an open track with a decent straight, the 20vt will romp away.

I'll dig out the times from Curborough as an illustration - I think we could class this as a short, twisty track

(The gent has re-listed the turbo at the same price).
I have driven a modern turbo diesel - a mates Leon 170. Left me cold TBH - dull noise,inability to rev past 5k and a sensation of speed only indicated by the speedo.
Roads I like to drive - country with bends inter-linked by point and shoot straights. I like engine, induction and exhaust noise. Stock Alfa Sprint 1.7 on carbs being my best car for that so far.
Do I like speed? Hell yeah. Post 4k rpm in 5th the road warps and fully engages my concentration, unlike 50mph in traffic. Only on empty private roads you understand, like Wales I am enjoying all of the contributions. Thanks

From the 2010 Curborough meet: http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1111330&page=9

Nigel took a second or so off my time, but let's face it, he was *born* on that track and I'd never driven a track in a coupe (and hadn't driven any track in twenty years or so).

Dude you so need a 20vt!
I'm not disrespecting N/A cars as all coupes are fantastic, but the noise and acceleration of the turbo is addictive.

Horses for courses.

They are good for different kinds of driving. I think you can have more fun at lower speeds in an NA.

And real driving isn't?

But how often do you get chance to do some 'real driving'?
I get to use the acceleration and overtaking capabilities of mine every day but rarely do I get chance to explore the 'real driving' aspect of it.

I think we're going slightly off-topic here. But in my experience driving something you can fully exploit in relative safety (and mostly legally) on public roads is the thing to have.

The most rewarding drive I ever had was in a bog-standard 2.5 Porsche Boxster (986). You had to absolutely wring its neck and it rewarded you for doing so. It wasn't very quick in a straight line but that's what made it fun - it wasn't easy to drive quickly.

There's nothing wrong with the NA, but if you want to accelerate hard in third gear and overtake slightly more quickly, get the turbo.

People, ladies and gentlemen you miss the point.
Didn't want to say this, ive tryed to coax it from you.
The Coupe has Soul. No car has soul in straight lines.
some Coupes have more soul than others.
A petrol head doesn't just think speed speed speed.
AMEN..

Spoken like a bloke without a leaf blower on his Coupe!

My mapped VIS will quite happily overtake spiritedly in 3rd thanks.



For motorways, the higher ratios and torque of the turbo make much more sense.

Leaf blowers are for people with ginger hair and the soulless teeheeeeheeeeee

A re-map sounds like my way forward. Can you indulge me and describe the before and after re-map driving characteristics of your car? Also, which exhaust did you plump for? I'm on a budget so the sensible me says 'stick with the car you have sorted out' rather than shell out on another project , which would be a 20vt. Yep, my Vis shifts on in 3rd, does this now continue into fourth abit? Thanks

I read that if you re-map you also need other upgrades like decent induction kit, and for stage 2 maps, exhaust, injectors, fuel pump. And na can achieve 200plus hp?

Stage 1 is my starting point. You can't fiddle with the stock induction system on a Vis, it upsets it. You can have a remap on a bog standard car, but I'd like a fruity exhaust for the aural pleasure. For more details see Flea's web-site - it has all the info. He's got a chip for your motor too :- http://www.fcperformance.co.uk/fiat-coupe-16v.php
Joe at FCSS has made 200bhp from a 20v n/a but that's bored out to 2.4. How much to go how fast? That's my prob.

You need a passenger ride in mine... 0-100 in around 9 seconds and 150 eight seconds later (and 175 another eight seconds after that) is plenty of soul (although I hear your point, hence why mine goes round corners fairly well too....)

I'd gladly take you up on that offer Nigel

My VIS went from 155 to 169bhp from Flea remap.

More torque and smooth if anything. Don't expect turbo performance, but plenty of fun. Also red lines at 7,000rpm which is higher than stock.

That was BEFORE my new custom made exhaust... which may have given a few more bhp...so perhaps 170+bhp. Went for a Prospeed exhaust, which was hand made.

Have a look on the exhausts thread for details.... and this vid of mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbGo1OnuJag


Here is me at Castle Combe giving it a blast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9ux-3p_reo

Seeing that it is a pretty stock car, I managed to give a good performance and overtake some cars and hold my own. Golf VR6 was dispatched for example. I loved my track day, and would like to do another. I went in a Coupe turbo on the same day. This was a modded 300bhp+ and was fast, but I still enjoyed ragging my NA.

Gripped that sounds awesome - despite my love of the turbo I'm sure my return to Coupe ownership will be a n/a or VIS.

Let me know if you sell up, Burgundy is the best colour

Completely bonkers. I must make a mental note not to race you!

Nothing borderline here pfftt is my response.
Perhaps your na was a Nissan micra :-D loosing patience slowly.

Relax, Phil... it's only a car!

Life would be boring if we all liked the same things.

I like my 20V. I have had it from new and know that it still performs very much in the same ballpark as when it was new. It has only done 50k sympathetic miles and is still pretty tight. Performance-wise a good one should still be in modern warm-hatch territory, so I would not describe them as underpowered - just not really that fast.

Comparing it with the performance of the model with 50% more power is futile. A standard 20VT is in another league. the 20V takes about 10 seconds longer to get to 100 mph than the 20VT - huge difference. But that does not make the non-blown car a bad car. If it suits, just enjoy it. I like the feel of the car and enjoy driving it. That is why I still have it. Really fast cars are over the speed limit before you know what has happened and driving them quickly may be a bit too easy so we take more pleasure in being able to drive a slower car fast. It is more challenging. It does not make the slower car a better car. A fast car makes picking of slower moving traffic easy but 90% of the time, that is what you need, so having that performance in hand is no bad thing.

The other thing to put into perspective is that coupes don't have that much grip compared to modern machinery. Limits are lower and they need a more sensitive hand to drive fast, which adds to the fun when you are up for it but is a bit frustrating when you would rather the car would just do as it was told!

Point totaly missed sorry.
If this thread was about speed I would get it, its not.
its about comparison, yes the turbo id faster, does speed make a car better? No.
If I put a NOS on my car would it make it better than a turbo just because it then goes faster and I can overtake? Lol id hope not.
Its about comparisons, the na is a better all round car, its the original coupe, its the king, the rest are just pretenders. Hehehee I love a good debate especially when im right.
Turbo owners, and ive owned 2 16 and a 20, please don't get upset im not saying an na is faster pmsl.
NA is a better driving experience for me in MY educated,experienced opinion for me as a driver.
Im not saying it is for anyone else lol.
If any turbo owner would like to borrow my NA for a drive your more than welcome.
can't resist this, its ok I don't need to borrow a turbo in return ive owned 2. And I can simply go on eBay or autotrader and buy 1 of the many turbo coupes for sale. But as you can't just go and buy a 16v na mines at your service .
I have a broom up my ass this week its that time.

your just so wrong but you only hear your own voice !

watch out when it starts to tell you to start killing people

I hear a voice the voice of reason.
Be carefull you don't slip in that bullshit now wont you.
:P:P:P I think this forum should just be for pure bloods your not a real vampire merely turned. Tounge in cheek btw pmsl

oh dear

Well actually, the thread started exactly with an interest in speed. THe OP asked what he was missing on the acceleration front. It has morphed into a handling/character discussion, and to be perfectly honest, the Coupe is no benchmark in the handling discipline! And we are more than likely comparing cars far from their original condition that any comparison is very fuzzy.

You are trying to tell everybody that the 16V provides a better driving experience. This is very subjective. For you OK, for me, I don't know because I have never driven one and it is too long ago that I drove a 20VT. Acceleration is a part of the enjoyment of driving so the lack of it is hard to make up with refined handing, and on that front, the coupe is no Porsche or Lotus, etc.

You slipped in it?
its ok it cleans off.

hahaha

Just out of interest, how do you think the various models differ in how they drive?

A question you asked......
Porshe, n other cars are ate elsewhere on forum I think.
Coupe section
You said you havnt driven an na and can't remember what its like to drive a 20vt that's insulting
May I suggest for you www.nissanpriusowners.com
all the best x

Rubbish! Open your window in a 20vt and you can hear it's soul.

Being educated and experienced doesn't necessarily make you a better driver than anyone else on here. Some people have natural skill and the ability to handle the extra power of a turbo.

Well I would say your wrong, im a professional driver, police trained, also track experienced and control trained at the Transport Research Laboratory in Crowthorne London.
If you had read this thread properly rather than just jumping in with an opinion you would have known.
Its ok I can forgive your ignorance.
You are forgiven.
There are 3 types of driver.
1 - trained
2 - untrained
3 - thinks there trained
Which are you

I own a 20V and have done for the last 18 years, from new. I was one of those that paid good money for a FIAT Coupe. I like it. I have no problem with that.

I drove a 20VT 18 years ago. I would be stupid to say I can really remember the fine details and differences. The performance difference was huge though and I still remember the ease with which it could join an Autobahn and effortlessly slot into de-restricted traffic. I could have bought either but I did not want the extra complexity of the turbos. I have never driven a 16V or a 16VT. I don't see why you are insulted by my memory being only average.

I asked the question about differences out of interest. If I knew the difference for myself, I would have been a pointless question.

I know nothing about the Nissan Prius. I didn't even know they existed, so I doubt I can contribute much on that front, unless I make it up, which is not my style.

You are actually more likely to find me at the other end of the spectrum on the Jaguar XKR forum, if it is of any relevance to FIAT Coupes.

Enjoy your driving

Good Reply shame humour is hard to convey in my comments.
I wasn't insulted merely an attempt at humour lol.
I don't think there is a serious bone in me.
However, i love winding people up, and im good at it.

I've driven every variant of Coupe, from bog-standard 16v N/A to mad-modified 20VT Plus.

I'm on record as saying the 16v N/A is the "purest", as it has the lightest front end and therefore the most transparent steering. Its a joy to drive, but it simply cannot be classed as "quick". The engine, when running properly, is responsive and revvy, but 139bhp hauling 1250+ kg is going to struggle against even mediocre modern stuff

However, in my fairly lengthy experience, a stock 20vt can easily be improved to handle just as sweetly as a stock 16v and with a bit more expenditure on some choice handling mods a 20vt can be made to run rings round a 16v.

As far as I'm concerned, the only advantage of a 16v N/A is that when you drop a tool in the engine bay, it'll always reach the ground....

Excellent reply Nigel.

You would say that. LOL
I have read this thread properly thanks. I'm am not ignorant either but if that's your opinion you are entitled to it.
Seeing as you asked I am also a trained driver, though not by the police. Not that it makes any difference!
Just because you have been trained by the police doesn't mean you are a better driver than anybody else on here, so please stop banging on about it.

Great thread!

I thought we were trying to establish the difference between the various models ...

... and I'm no model by any stretch of the imagination

Winding people up with insults is no great talent either, we could all do it ...

^^ Agreed.
I would say the op should test drive a turbo and then decide whether that is more suited to him than his current N/A.

Well, that *used* to be the case, but then I restored the undertray...

Gentlemen, noting that humour is not always apparent in written words without facial context, might I request please that we try and keep the insults and the winding up down a little?

The McDonald's driving school doesn't count.
Im glad you read through properly this time.
I forgive you :-D

I agree =D

Shame. That's where you trained wasn't it?



Spoilsport

Hahahaaaa no I said were I did my training, but you said not to bang on, so I mentioned yours
Mines a big mac meal plzz.
The plastic thing under my coupe is for catching nuts bolts coolant and oil isn't it?
Don't the 16v have them for catching debris when the engine fails

Topical aside, I dropped a cam cover bolt into the bowels of my 20vt engine bay once, then because my hands were so cold, dropped my telescopic magnet tool down there too...

If id have done that I never would have seen them again. =D

At the end of the day fiat made the NA coupe, then decided that once the 20vt was conceived that they best build more of the best model than the (s)lower spec models.


I'm not knocking NA, I once had a Fiat Uno 45

By the way this thread is brilliant.
Hugs to all participants xx

I owned a 1982 Panda once upon a time, and that was a real drivers car and the best car I owned ...




... at the time

I'd love to have a blast in a 20vt. No-one in my area has one that I know of, and even then if I owned one I'd be reluctant to lend it to another to test drive. I guess going to a dealer to try one is a possibility - I wouldn't go to a private seller and waste their time, clutch and petrol just so I could sample the delicious torque on offer. Catch 22. As it in my Vis, the speed exceeds the handling, which makes it fun when it does touch the ground.
My mind is made up, with all of your help..........
No it's not (I can't write I'll stick with the n/a).
I'll keep it until I can get a test drive in a vt. Then I'll decide.

Sorry big macs are only for turbo owners!
You'll have to have a quarter pounder and no, you can't have cheese.



Shame your not closer as you could gladly have a blast in mine.

No-one in your area? Countrycruising is just down the road at Upton-upon-Severn; I'll be there this weekend putting a bit more of my 16NA back together...

I can has cheezeburger?

ive got various 16v na parts if you need.
I've got spare every relay and fuse and connector on car.
Including spare flasher relay of death.

I once bought a firework that reminded me of a coupe turbo.
It was a big red rocket.
It took of with an awsome whooooooooosh, accelerated up in a straight line it looked beautifully.
THEN IT WENT BANG!!!!
And was knowmore....

Yes they're allowed Barnacle

My mrs Punto is a fun car to drive, you can get all the thrills of driving right on the limit, it's little engine screaming, skinny tyres hanging on for dear life. All without risking your driving licence, then get overtaken by a Peugeot 308 diesel on the straight.

In the interests of diplomacy, isn't the whole point that since there are 4 main versions of the Coupe (2 NA's and 2 turbos), that we have a choice of what we want. 16v, 20v, blown or not blown.

Then for the prestige hunters, there are the LE and Plus versions.

For the discerning pallet, there is the very civlised VIS

For me, the sound of a 5 pot was the major decider. For others, it will be the purity and lineage of the 16V. And for others, speed and acceleration will be the main factor.

We can all change our minds, and have a taste of all of them. But it does mean that there is no right answer to which is the "best" since it is a subjective judgement.

What we can all agree on is that the Coupe is simply like nothing else.

In the interests of sanity - why I picked my 16NA over the VT:

I bought it new in 95; there were only the 16V versions available at the time - NA and T.

- the power differential was only 40bhp (not the 80bhp extra of the 20vt)
- top speed differential was 10mph and largely academic
- I'd just sold a turbo car
- the turbo lag was horrible
- the NA handled better

I drove them both over a week umming and ahhing and eventually settled on the NA. I've never regretted, and while I had both a 16NA and the 20VT for a couple of years - and they are like chalk and cheese - it was the 20VT that I sold.

Which will tell you which is the better car *for me*.

And didn't that review in Autoitalia state 'the 16NA is the perfect car'?

It did indeed and I totaly agree.
Finaly a sane voice amongst fools heheheee.

Beautiful cars inside and out. Parked up with engine off you've still got to love them. No point trying to convince someone else your passion is justified. If you're happy then you have the right car. Only hard times will ever force me to part with either one of mine.

thats because he hasn't driven mine

Not sure if the 16vt is anything like a thema turbo - if it is then I can believe what you say about no off boost power and handling. I had one as a courtesy car (yes, really) about 7 years ago. The throttle was an on off switch! Felt bloody good in the on position!

And that comment ladies and gents is why this particular poster is winning friends by the bucket load for his recent contibutions on here by the hour!

Perhaps the only thing to do is by one of each!

In fact, you could go out and buy all 5 (?) of each engine variant for the price of less than a new Fiesta. Oh, apart from the garage bills, tax, insurance etc... and it might look a bit obsessive.

..and I thought I was a wind up merchant on the paris thread !

just so sad

If your sense of humour turns up we will let you know.

Hope you feel well soon.

Don't believe everything you read in the press

But if its been written it had to be TRUE.

You don't own a Toyota Soarer by any chance? I have heard they are even better than 16v Coupes

Lets all give up and buy Ford Probes.

No I don't please tell us what there like, ive never heard of them.
Or do you own 1:)

You're not going to believe this... but the fellow six houses away just bought a Soarer!

Lol No Way?

It's called a lexus (luxury exports to US) in the UK.

The only bit I find funny is that the highly qualified driver on this thread managed to run out of fuel.... That's a proper rookie / learner mistake, not one a pro should make!

Say what you will about which model. But we all know speed red is the best colour!

Fuel gauge didn't work, had a gallon in the boot.
Who looks silly, looks up....
And it was on my drive.
people who assume often look an ass.

You mean Broom Yellow?
Can't wait to get another going, who will get upset now.

You need to read your PM's pjdm

I read 4 earlier, 3 nice ones and 1 from you saying ive been warned.
Its hard to see them flashing im on a windows phone.

That's right , explained my reasons in the pm to you .

Did you send a PM to anyone else

No because no one else had a post deleted.

Then can I officialy be the forum badboy?
Seriously id pm U but on phone its hard to press the flashy mail icon.
I kind of thought it was all tongue in cheek if anyone is offended they can pm me and I will apologize.
Except you as I don't like you, that's a joke btw.

Just keep it clean then , there is no reason to call people names . We are all here for the same thing and that's the "fiat coupe" .

Im sure I didn't call anyone names?
I've used Silly, wrong, n that's it im sure?
I probably got called worse lol.
Every forum needs an asshole, n that's me.

warrior more like

No, people who run out of fuel look an ass, I assumed nothing just happened to read that on another thread.
Did the police also train you to think you're funny but come across as an arrogant prat instead?

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

3.... 2.... 1....

Gents - more than one Mod has politely asked for the petty name-calling and bickering to stop.

This was a great thread until it got personal - a bit of healthy banter is fine, but it has now descended to the point that I doubt it will survive the day....

With apologies to HiraethHuw, who had a legitimate question, I'm locking this thread after several complaints. It shouldn't come as a surprise, given the requests to remain within the rules, but it's disappointing.

If anyone needs any further clarification about why this action has been taken, then by all means PM me.