Documented Engine Rebuild (by a novice)

When I had my last Coupe probably 5 or 6 years ago I started a thread about whether I should get hold of a second hand engine and do a novice engine strip and rebuild to learn more about the engine and try and be a little more self sufficient.

Maybe even end up striping and rebuild enough times to be brave enough to do a bit of upgrading.

I never got round to it as I didn't have the space. Now I do have the space and an engine stand and a decent tool box full of the right tools (mostly) so I'm thinking of doing it again.

Last time I mentioned it a few other people were thinking of doing the same so i'm wondering if anyone did and if they have advice.

I'm also thinking I could document the rebuild on a project thread where I can get help for the experts which would then turn into a bloody good engine rebuild How To.

What do people think and does anybody know of an engine that might be available in a month or so? (Need to clear out the garage as it became the winter wood storage shed and by extension Spider Nirvana whilst I wasn't looking

good luck on this mate. been thinking of doing the same thing.
cause you can read all about these cars but in the end learning = actually doing it. at least for me, I learn the best way by doing something.
I don't have the room yet, and not the right tools however I do know of a engine in Belgium of a 20 vt for 500 euro's.
maybe we should merge

Thanks for the wish of good luck....I will need it.

500 euros is a bit rich for something I may never get to use as an actual engine. I was hoping to pick up an engine with an issue for peanuts, or if I have to buy a fully working Engine, there was one on ebay the other day for £225 that never sold.

I'm a little hesitant about using a working engine though......I would feel really guilty if someone on the forum was looking for a good engine to get their coupe back on the road and I was bastardising one in my garage

Does anyone have any idea of what order I need to do everything in? Will it be obvious as I strip it or are there certain stages that need to be completed before others?

Have a look at my olde original 16v fettle thread in the projects. It'll give you an idea of the general scale of things, although obviously it's not identical (in fact, with no turbo and no a/c it's as simple as you'll find).

Thing is, there's an awful lot in an engine that once you've opened it, you should change (as opposed to just taking it to bits and putting it back together again).

It'll probably cost you well over five hundred euros just for a complete gasket set, belt set, water pump, filters, and fluids. More if you need hoses, bearings, regrind etc.

Ive been having a good read through that thread already.....looks like it will be a good resource for me.

I know I am going to have to replace some parts depending on the quality of the engine, but this will be done a bit at a time rather than in 1 lump.

Also, as I will be taking it completely apart, getting an engine with issues and fixing/replacing it a bit at a time will make the money less noticeable to me and more importantly..........Kate

Engine donations are obviously welcome as well I'm thinking I might do a video of each section and let everyone tell me what I did wrong in the comments to help the next person who has a go.

It seems like a good approach to building an engine. You could start with the cylinder head? That's a relatively straightforward job. Just remember that you'll need specialist tools such as a valve spring compressor, small torque wrench, and stem seal pliers. Other than those it's just a case of having some assembly lube, some gasketing compound, and making sure everything is spotlessly clean as you rebuild.

The catch however is that the above assumes the assembly is serviceable. For example if the bottom end of the engine has failed then the head/cams might be scrap before you've started.

Why you should be scrupulously clean - this is from the factory...

I have spent the afternoon reading loads of threads on here and other websites and watched a lot of youtube and its becoming more and more obvious that I need to source a decent engine as an engine with problems could stop the project before it starts.

Neil- my garage will be like a clean room when I do this. First part of the project is converting the workshop back into a workshop, cleaning it out really well and setting up a bench/work area that is easy to keep clean. Again, hints and tips on how to ensure the engine is super clean when re-assembling will be welcomed and added to the project thread.

Hi Djmobi

I have a spare engine in my garage that you can have for a small fee. Its been taken appart mostly - head off, valves & springs out, cams etc.. pistons and rods, crank all out.

The only things it hasn't got is a sump. It hasn't seen many miles and was a head gasket failure.

I'm not that far from you too

Chris

... which is why when you see people advocating the renewal of shells under the car on roadside, you know you wouldnt let them near your car!

Thanks for the offer Nobby but I need one that is still in one piece so that I can document taking it apart.

I've got a 20vt engine from my coupe end of next month. It won't have manifolds on it. Big ends are gone in it

would that just mean new shell bearings or would the crankshaft be busted

crank would need measuring and likely grinding and hardening

I've read threads on here that crank grinding leads to fails so a new crank is required.

What were you hoping to get for the engine?

Crank grinding without hardening is an issue. If it's properly ground and hardened there should be no issue; you're restoring it 'as new' but 10 thou undersize.

Budget for new crank and main bearings and thrust bearing (I think it's separate on the 20). Grinding where I did mine was I think £20 per journal; hardening was by the 100 kilo so best to find someone else that needs it.

I suppose if I am using this as a take it apart and put it back together exercise I dont need to worry about it too much.

I wont be putting back into a car after the first rebuild. The first time I put it back together I will be doing it simply to practice and get the order right etc.

When I come to rebuild it for potential use, I can worry about that stuff then.

I assume you'll re-use all the bolts on your first rebuild, but second time round you'll need new stretch bolts for big ends and cylinder head, maybe others too.

That is probably a very sensible approach, DJ.

However... many bits are separated by gaskets, and most of them will come off half stuck to each part. By all means clean the surfaces, but *don't* tighten down the parts to maximum torque. For a trial assembly like this, you don't want to damage any mating surfaces.

What I'd suggest as the first job is once you have the engine out and accessible, hire a steam cleaner and give it the best damned cleaning you can. The more muck isn't on the outside, the less there is to find its way inside.

As mentioned above, you're probably going to find some dead bearing shells, and if you do, you're going to have bits of swarf floating around the oil-ways. When you get to it, make sure your crank grinder opens, cleans, and seals the oil-ways in the crank.

Yeah my plan is to take it apart and then basically put it all back together again, regardless of what needs to be fixed or replaced. I will only tighten things up very gently, enough so they stay together. I will probably knock up some temporary gaskets with gasket paper to help protect everything.

I will definitely give the whole thing a mega clean before I start taking it apart. If nothing else it will make it easier for people to see what I am doing in pics and videos, but as you say, I also dont want loads of crap ending up on surfaces that I need to be protecting.

Dave G - I think when I get around to re-building it with the intention of using it I will start spending some money on stronger/new parts. ARP bolts maybe, forged pistons and upgraded conrods, probably not as they look to be too expensive for what I want

This is assuming the tear down and rebuild process has left me confident enough to do this.

I don't want to get too carried away with it as I cant afford to be chucking £1000's at an engine. If I spend £650 on forged Pistons and £300 on conrods, i'm then not going to want to put a standard turbo on it, and then it snowballs and suddenly I've spent £3000 on an engine built by an amateur.

I've made a start on the workshop and started to buy a few other tools that I may need (any excuse)

Still on the hunt for an engine so if you read this Alfasudti, let me know what you want for yours when its available

Dj an addition for your tool box if you're purchasing tool is a left handed 19mm socket to undo the main pulley crank bolt.

I'll let you know when I pull it out and work out what I need from it

How would the left handed socket differ from the conventional?

Being serious it's a good tip. Get yourself an impact socket and a big bar. Being left hand thread means you need to turn clockwise to loosen. However you may be defeated by this bolt. Last time I undid one I had the block on a stand and couldn't budge it. Tried a mate with a big windy gun,broke the socket but didn't move the bolt. Eventually with a very big bar and makeshift bar attached to the flywheel end it went.

Machine marts electric impact gun shifted mine, 450nm torque monster

I have a breaker bar and a 19mm socket from a standard/semi-decent socket set.......do I need something beefier then?

A long lever (I use half of a trolley jack handle over the end of a breaker bar) and some way of locking the flywheel (a suitably placed bolt for example). Hopefully the breaker bar won't break, I broke a normal ratchet trying to undo the front wheel hub, don't use a ratchet!

Just ordered a set of deep impact sockets, including a 19mm.

This is exactly the kind of advice I need so keep it coming. If you can think of something I am going to have to do that requires a special tool, or some kind of improvised technique, please let me know and I will try and remember everything, include in the documented version and give people credit where I can.

Do you have an engine stand?

That's what made me think he was serious, but hopefully it's an engine stand that won't fall over when trying to undo the crank nut

Edit for more tools required
- torque wrench(es) or even a dial gauge (since some bolts require a certain torque + a 90° turn for example)
- piston ring compressor
- valve grinding paste and stick with suction cups
- micrometer, feeler gauges, plastigauge
- shim tool (not sure if required) and selection of shims (if applicable for hydraulic tappets)

I learnt all I know on engines from doing the same on a rather smaller and simpler engine, can anyone guess what it is?

Yeah I have bought an engine stand, although I had no idea about the crank nut when I bought it so hopefully it will do the job

it can handle 450kg apparently and I figured the 20vt block at 200kg give or take

Its more a turning moment thing rather than static dead load capacity.

You may want to have the engine inverted when you try and get the crank pulley nut off.

Special tools I have bought:

Engine Stand
Breaker Bar
Deep Impact Sockets
Piston Ring Compressor
Rubber/Plastic Mallet
Valve Spring Compressor
Valve Seal Remover
Piston Ring Pliers
Engine Cleaner
Nylon Engine Cleaning Brushes
Ribe Keys
Feeler Gauges
Gasket Scraper Set
Smaller Torque Wrench (My big one only goes down to 30nm)

I already have a pretty good set of general tools, sockets, ratchets, extenders, screw drivers, pliers cutters etc etc

Piston insertion tool? Springy circular thing that goes round the piston and compresses the rings so you can get it back in the block. Inexpensive, but makes life so much easier.

I've got one of those.....Piston Ring Compressor ive called it in the list. Probably the wrong name

I missed it. Saw the ring pliers, reminded me of that.

Nope, piston ring compressor is correct, I had it in my edited list above, you may have missed it and other stuff like the valve grinding stuff, micrometer and shim related stuff.

If you want to be a pro, you could try and get some of the official Fiat tools that they list for the engine overhaul?

1840206000 Tool for removing counter-rotating shaft front bearing (use with 1840207814)
1850184000 Wrench for removing spark plugs
1852154000 Special wrench for bolts with hex-slotted head, for removing-refitting cylinder head
1852161000 Tool for removing timing variator on camshaft
1860183000 Tool for dismantling-refitting piston rings
1860395000 Drift for dismantling valve guides
1860454000 Drift for installing oil seals on valve guides
1860470000 Tool for supporting cylinder head
1080644020 Cage for dismantling valves (1998 20v)
1860700000 Sleeve for inserting pistons in cylinders
1860758000 Tool for dismantling oil filter
1860790000 Puller for split tapered collets, cups, springs and valves (use with 1860788000, 1860787000 and 1860786000)
1860812000 Drift for refitting valve guides
1860813000 Tool for fitting oil seal on valve guides
1860815000 Disc for rotating crankshaft
1860816000 Drift for fitting oil pump seal
1860817000 Tool for centring crankshaft cover
1860821000 Tool for dismantling - refitting small end bush (1998 20v)
1860822000 Tool for setting oil pump timing
1860824000 Tool for fitting oil seal on exhaust camshaft
1860831000 Wrench for handling camshaft pulley, exhaust side
1860834000 Wrench for dismantling oil sump
1860835000 Tool for removing oil seals on valve guides
1860840000 Cage for dismantling valves (1998 20v turbo)
1860844000 Tool for fitting oil seal on inlet camshaft
1860846000 Flywheel locking tool
1860892000 Tool for setting camshaft timing (1998 20v)
1860856000 Wrench for handling inlet camshaft pulley
1860895000 Tool for measuring TDC on 1st cylinder
1860942000 Tool for angle tightening to torque
1860951000 Tool for dismantling - refitting small end bush (1998 20v turbo)
1860962000 Tool for setting camshaft timing (1998 20v turbo)
1861001039 Engine support brackets
1890385000 Valve guide reamer
1895762000 Tool for checking auxiliary components tension
1895868000 Compression tester for checking valve leaks (use with tool 1860490000)

Jesus......I dont know what half that stuff is. Some of it does sound like specific things I might need.......If there is anything on there you think I might not have covered or wont be able to make do with what I have got...let me know.

I now have my engine which is a 80k mile perfectly working engine and gearbox. My workshop is set up and ready to go.

All the tools I need have turned up so I am pretty much ready to go. I realised the other day that I dont actually have a way of filming myself other than my phone which isnt ideal, so I might have to wait a short while before I can get hold of a decent camera and tri-pod, so I expect to start the re-build in the next couple of weeks.

The engine I have does not have a rocker cover, so that bit will be missed off the strip down videos, but I will be buying one and re-furbishing it for when the engine goes back together.

I'm excited, I've always wanted to re-build an engine. Again, any advice from the experts would be appreciated.

Advice:

• Take your time!
• Clean the outside first
• Keep it clean
• Take lots of photos

Make sure you keep the shells in the right order! Number them 1-6 and there are 2 THRUST washers on mains number 3 .
You need to lock the crank which is best done by lodging something between the case and one of the counterweights at the pulley end. Then you need a long bar and it's a reverse thread bolt so it will seem like your tightening it. It's torqued to 300NM so you might need someone to hold the block still. There is a proper tool for locking the crank and so be careful not to put too much load on the shells. It's best done with the main bearings tight.

When you remove the crank get a Machine shop to measure the crank journals to see if they are true .
If you are replacing the piston and rods get a oversize piston and get the block rebored and honed
Or if you are just replacing the rings hone the bores .

If you get stuck and need some info just give me a pm
Have fun dj

Thanks for the advice.......this Crank nut is starting to cause me a little concern.

This isn't an issue with the right tools.

Leave the flywheel attached and lock it with one of these.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-VSE2394...=item35e4e2aae5

Or put some long bolts into the flywheel holes and get stick a long pry bar between them - then wedge the pry bar or get someone to hold it.

Thanks CC.........tool is ordered