Italian Road Trip 2020

A very welcome return for a 2nd Italian road trip for this summer.

This is looking to be another spectacular Italy trip... Really looking forward to it.

2000+ miles from Scotland to Northern Italy.

Ferry from Newcastle to Amsterdam.

Our route south via Stelvio Pass and return north via San Bernardino Pass.

3 overnight stops through Europe.

7 nights in Lake Garda.

2020 seems the perfect year for some driving tours,

And this sounds a great one! Keep us up dated.



Regards

MM

Counting the practice road trips we can get in before the 30th anniversary in Turin.

It's working in my favour taking the coupé on this everytime and not flying as I'm not an easy flyer as the years go on plus the wee dogs get to come along.

I know from the 2018 trip we've learnt to cut the driving hours down each day and in the middle of it we can take it easy for a week from our base in Garda.

So roll on the summer and preparation for the coupé journey.

Magic,

And the beer just tastes better in the heat after a days drive. It just does!

MM

Don't do what we did on the 20th Anniversary trip: arrive at Stelvio to find it still closed

We ended up based in Brescia for a week, I think.

Neil

Definetly a very good tip with that Neil.

Our 2018 trip when we were heading home via Stelvio pass around beginning of October, there was a bit of snow in some areas at the top but all roads clear and mainly like a summers day though completely appreciate its different at the top. Then when we stopped at the top for a walk with the dogs it was starting to snow so quickly jumped back in the coupé and sprinted off back down the other side.

I would imagine a bit of a detour is required if you ended up at Brescia then? We will be at the Stelvio pass mid September so a couple of weeks earlier than on the last trip.

I don't know when you're planning to go, but I've my own Alfa 159 Ti 2.4 JTDm tour of European countries in the works:

France, Belgium, Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Austria to Grangesises, below Sestriere in the Western Italian Alps for a couple of weeks... But wait! There's more... After that, south through Italy, eventually dropping in on a friend in Bari, then on to Brindisi and the ferry to Igoumenitsa, Greece, to meet another friend, possibly in Athens depending. Onwards once more to Bulgaria and Sofia City for another two weeks there. After that it's return via whatever route seems more appealing, my breathed-on Alfa Ti really does motor!

If I can keep abreast of your planned dates, I may be able to meet up with you for a bevvy and a chin-wag.

It be a shame not to if our paths cross along the journey. Our trip is mid September. With a route through the Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland and into Italy via Stelvio and into Bormio. When are you going?

You're gonna earn the title of "Our Man in Milan"

That must have been on the way there? I passed through Stelvio on the way back, I think it had only just opened

Would you mind giving some basic (bullitt points perhaps) How it works and approx’ budget please.

You might get more than you bargained for bayliss, I've seen the itinerary and it's mighty impressive

Dave, yes on the way down from Ulm via Austria. We found an alternate route but it added a few miles to the trip. September should have it open, though.

Looking forward to seeing the itinerary, road trip will be a new experience for us.

ha im in no rush to visit Milan in the busy period

Great pics Dave was that car park almost at the top?

Cant for the life of me figure out how to get a table on here so this will have to do for now but I do have a document if you require.

So basically we have planned after we get off the ferry is 3 overnight stops to get to Garda, 7 nights stay on lake garda, then 3 overnight stops for the return journey to the ferry.

The ferry is over night from Newcastle to IJmuiden Netherlands and sails at 5pm and arrives next morning in IJmuiden at 9.

Bear in mind costs below are approx although we have now booked all our accommodation and ferry and I just need to tot it all up.

Day Overnight Stops Route Miles Driving Time

0 Newcastle to Ijmuiden 150 miles 18 hours
1 Ijmuiden to Limburg 245 miles 4 hours
2 Limburg to Neuschwanstein 290 miles 5 hours
3 Neuschwanstein to Bormio Via Stelvio 128 miles 5 hours
4 Bormio to Garda 127 miles 4 hours
5 Garda
6 Garda
7 Garda
8 Garda
9 Garda
10 Garda
11 Garda to Nufenen Via S. B Pass 240 miles 4 hrs
12 Nufenen to Karlsruhe 260 miles 4 hrs 30m
13 Karlsruhe to Dusseldorf 210 miles 3 hrs 30m
14 Dusseldorf to Ijmuiden 150 miles 2 hrs
15 Newcastle to Home 150 miles 3 hrs

Approx figures

Ferry - £302

Fuel - £375

Based on 63 litre tank, £1.35 fuel per litre, £85 to fill tank, Full tank range 430, 4.5x tanks to complete journey (does not inc day trips).

7 nights Lake Garda accommodation Classic Plus Room Halfboard - 884GBP

6 nights accommodation whilst travelling through Europe - 500GBP

Breakdown Cover is advised ??? Could be included in Insurance Policy – If through Hagerty Insurance - £200 approx again.

Switzerland Vignette - 35 euro

Total - 2200GBP but not including food costs whilst travelling or spending money.

Just a thought Brian, are ferry costs different (potentially more) in your case?

Yeh for us its over £600 as the dogs are coming along so that bumps the cost right up although that's also including dinner and breakfast on the ship and the optional personal travel insurance.

I've just costed it now and for 2 adults and car it is £302 return.

It’s certainly going to be an impressive trip

How many countries will you actually be driving in

My knowledge of some of those places is limited to say the least

Unless they have a semi decent football team
I haven’t heard of them hehe

Thanks Alan feeling very lucky to be doing the trip in the coupé.

Our route from the ferry takes us through the Netherlands with 1 stop in the North of Germany and 1 stop in the south, into Switzerland and then Italy driving the Stelvio Pass with a total of a 1000 miles. We then have a similar return but via the San Bernardino Pass and again 1000 mile.

I can't say I know Netherlands, Germany or Switzerland well either to be completely honest but what I can say I completely appreciate what beautiful surroundings they are on that journey and something that is missed by jumping on a plane.mmm the coupe got to be less polluting than a plane

If you are driving through Switzerland on the main highways you need a vignette (windscreen pass) that costs CHF 40 (approx EUR 40) and is valid for the calendar year, even if you only need it for a day. Or you can risk driving without one...

Driving through Austria is cheaper, you can buy passes for 10 days EUR 9.40, 2 months EUR 27.40 or 1 year EUR 91.10

Plus you'll need an emergency triangle, hi-vis vests for all car occupants, first aid kit, spare bulbs, etc. You're supposed to carry a breathalyser in France and could be fined for not having one, but the fine continues to be suspended, so you don't really need one, despite what the Ferry companies / Eurotunnel would have you believe. Headlight beam deflectors are of little use, but show that you have at least tried (I never bother any more)

It was just over the top, heading down towards Germany

Many thanks Rosso for the info, it’s all new to me, never done a tour such as this and so appreciate the guide.

And as DaveG mentioned above you'll need an emergency kit etc, breathelizer for France and Vignette for Swiss roads.

For this year's trip we've got an extra day to get to Italy so thees less driving time each day so should be good for photo opportunities and coffee stops along the way.

I've read in a few places that the Stelvio Pass is best approached from the North. It says you have to pass over it from the North to best appreciate the switchbacks.

What are peoples thoughts if they've done both approaches?

We were approaching from the south side in 2018 and still found it a great drive despite the rain and it cleared up pretty quickly.

I'd approach it from the east which is I suppose the north overall; up the slope with the wiggly bits exposed in the valley, down the not-quite-so-wiggly side towards Bormio.

I can't help feeling that the other way is going to have some enthusiastic braking.

I expect it will be a bit different in going up "wiggly bits" maybe more so in the n/a this time. First stop in Italy is Bormio so maybe I could get up early in the morning to do sneaky in reverse again

It did eventually bring on the squealing Brembo's in 2018. Not that I was in any rush but the sound bouncing off the walls was tremendous

In a 20v n/a I'd tackle that section of roads heading down from the North, going up the altitude will mean you'll be having to work that engine hard and if you have any electrical gremlins you'll find them, DaveG knows this from experience.

Well yes, if only I knew what those gremlins were. I suspect that the ambient air pressure sensor was not working so that it was overfueling at altitude, not sure how to test for that beforehand at only 100m elevation. That was on the way back at least, on the way there, who knows, I still don't know what exactly the repair was made by Turin's finest, but it's still working fine

Pah, if my mighty puny 16NA can do it... I've got a picture of the pressure sensor value at the top: engine off, it's about 700mB.

You weren't on a flat bed were Neil?

Oh how lucky then Joe it looks like we will be heading up the hairpins working that 20v but hopefully not having any electrical gremlins. Anything in particular I should check before?

Make sure your brakes don't squeak, the pads/discs have plenty of life, your brake fluid is fresh, and your handbrake works!

I could be wrong, but approaching the top from either side still means you have reach the same elevation

The rubbish turning circle in a 20vt means that oncoming traffic might cause you a problem, but you should be OK in the 20v.

Should be okay this time the turbo coupe that we went in 2018 is now been replaced with an n/a so no squeal brakes now.

Oh yeh same elevation but definitely a more gradual incline from the south than when compared withthe approach from North. The approach from the south I think might have allowed me to take a more sweeping hairpin oh and the overall lack of traffic meant no 3 point turns.

I feel I need to apologise to Rosso, at start of thread I thought the tour was a club tour and asked a couple of inappropriate questions. Now of course realise it’s a personal tour, apologies. Newbi error.

No need to apologise, I thought you asked because you had been considering your own trip. Anyway that might give you some idea of costs and possible routes.

For the future I think a group coupe tour to Italy would be a great great adventure and certainly something I'd be up for.

Cheers, onward and upwards.

Getting closer... and all going well it will be another great road trip to Italy for 2020 in the Coupé.

We're hopefull for restrictions to be lifted by then with a safe journey and to keep updated with latest travel.

Looking forward to the journey to through the Netherlands, Germany, Austria and Switzerland.

And look forward to seeing coupé friends again.

I hope it takes place and goes smoothly for you Brian. No Italian road trip for me this year but am thinking of taking Doris when I am working for a month in Gibraltar in September. Probably get the ferry from Plymouth to Roscoff and then down the west coast of France, or to Santander and then straight through middle of Spain. No aircon in Doris so time to roast again...

That will be awesome run and I hope you get the go ahead. How are the roads in France to drive in comparison?

There's certainly hope that it will and we are sticking with all the bookings and to keep updated with border crossing changes. It will no doubt be a different experience in many ways and I expect it will be less busy too which cant be a bad thing.

Well I tried to get the aircon up and running on the 20vt before the trip in 2018 but it just wasn't happening and I don't have that worry on the 20v as hasn't got any so it will be windows down and sunroof open...still trying to find something that could help with keeping the dogs as cool as possible

The roads in France were excellent, but expensive if using the toll roads. Will be interesting to see if any difference between the east and west of the country. I have never driven in Spain so that will be an experience to report back on. I would get a couple of the JML chillmax gel pillows for your dogs, around a tenner each. They work really well and you don't need to put them in the freezer etc

Ex FI drivers iced waistcoat should do the trick, at least for. few hours.

Drove back from the 20th anniversary in Turin through France to Calais; didn't touch a toll road all the way. A bit slower perhaps, but so what? I was on holiday, not commuting!

Neil

As a plan B if the ferry to Ijmuiden is not going we are looking at that Euro tunnel route through France and Brussels and stopping overnight just outside of Frankfurt.

Ill check the gel pillows out anything to make there journey couped up in the coupe will make life easier.

Vignette has arrived...

And today great news is the Newcastle to IJmuiden ferry starts back mid July.

Then the significant travel news from the UK government to the agreed airbridges that will almost cover all our route from Scotland to Italy.

So all going well and hopefully the Scottish government will follow soon then it should be a GREEN light to go for for our Italian Road Trip of September 2020.

Great News!

Not sure where Scotland is with its arrangements - but I am sure they will be fine by the time departure time comes. If not you could do the worst thing and just describe yourself as "British" :-)

Looking forward to hearing of your adventures as you go and wishing your a fantastic trip.

I've been lax in organising anything this year- due to the covid panic - so hat's off to you for arranging this and keeping the faith of finding some sun in your coupe!!

Regards

MM

Well an update as of

Tuesday - greatly significant travel news from Scotland's government is the agreed airbridges that will cover our route from Scotland to Italy. Through Netherlands, Germany, Austria Switzerland and Italy.

And yesterdays great news was the UK Newcastle to Netherlands IJmuiden ferry starts back on July 15.

So a GREEN light to go for for our Italian Road Trip of September 2020.


Thanks MM, there is the joy of driving these roads and there's also lots you miss whilst behind the wheel of course though we will make sure there are plenty of photo stop opportunities taken.

By the time our last night at the hotel we were staying at last year came around we had decided to book again for this year. Of course a lot has changed in these last few months and everything was booked but on top of everything else that's been going on I've had my fingers crossed for it going ahead.

Great news Brian, fingers crossed it stays that way

Yes definitely thanks Simon

Brian, I'm driving to Berlin on Wednesday via the tunnel/Calais/Belgium/Holland/Germany - will let you know if there are any issues. Last I heard, the toilets are open on the autobahns

Have a nice trip are you going in the coupe or Bravo?

Thanks Neil that would be great. I'd never even thought about the toilets but a very good point.

I've read some reports of possiblities of being asked for certificates to say your covid free not sure there's any truth in them. I've certainly not seen anything of them on government websites.

Here you go boys......and girls

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TravelJohn-Disposable-Sick-Wee-Bag-Emergency-Paper-Camping-Travel-Toilet-Vomit/402287307601?epid=1704156351&hash=item5daa312b51:g:B40AAOSwMTde8N20

Perfetto

Taking the Bravo - the coupe is sorn until the move is sorted out, then we'll see what to do with it.

There's a form available from the eurotunnel site which is required if you're arriving from the UK, and arriving back in the UK you need to do an online form, linked from the same place: https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/latest/covid-19/

Ah was it the practicality of driving rhd coupe in Germany that you were having to consider?

Yeh I've had a liitle read at that application well the lead up to it info and it's beginning to sound like we may need to apply for that ourselves also.

https://www.gov.uk/provide-journey-contact-details-before-travel-uk

If you guys will be going to Italy in September maybe me (with my LE) and some Coupe friends from Slovenia can meet up
And If you would consider staying in Slovenia for a day I can arrange rooms to stay

If you have a plan were are you going or staying, let me know and we can meet up

Thank you for the invitation to Slovenia my friend but on this occasion atleast we are based in Lake Garda and I don't think our day trips can extend so far but if you are ever in Italy then we could meet.

Just for info, Brian: the French didn't bother us once we were off the train (or at customs on the UK side) - so we didn't need the forms. The UK border control wanted to be sure - and to see the eventual PDF on our phones - that we'd done the UK form online.

We didn't stop in France on this occasion, but in Belgium and Germany the service stations were open but food was limited (I don't count McD or BK as food) at most places. Masks to be worn even to go to the loos. Petrol on the motorways was between E1.55 and E1.70, diesel about 30 cents cheaper (and E1.04 in towns, but I didn't note a petrol price). Since last time I drove there, both Holland and Germany have a lot of reduced speed limits 0800-2000 or longer - reduction often to 120kph on the autobahns but a very boring 100kph on the A67 to Venlo in Holland.

Berlin was surprisingly lively - loads of places open for food and drink and social distancing was not hugely in evidence though there was at least a token observance.

Neil

That's great Neil thanks for the update info and so you back home in the UK?. good to know... at this moment in time I can't rule rule out the France but as it stands if things remain as is then we will be of the boat on that Tuesday morning and heading through the Netherlands with a little pitstop on the way with our first stop near Limburg and second Neuschwanstein Castle just on the German and Austrian border.

No neither would I but I guess if we were stuck then McD would do. I'm estimating one stop in Germany for fuel. Stocking up on masks between us going. Oh well autobahns' maybe a little more relaxing for the N/A.

Oh really id have been expecting it to be pretty strict wearing of masks. Certainly we wont take in chances and just make sure they are on.

thanks for all the info its a good heads up for what's to come for the journey.

It's suddenly looking a bit vague again, Brian - now arriving from Belgium requires quarantine. Nobody is quite certain but today there was much talk of even travelling through Belgium also requiring it. We're going to Berlin again on Wednesday, and it looks as if even driving through it will be enough to cause the quarantine when we return.

The alternative through France is (a) sodding toll roads and (b) 200 miles further, and so three hours longer. Meh.

Thanks Neil, Yes I heard the news of Belgium last night. I think that's sort of my question... I mean if you are technically passing through a country and not stopping as they say "transiting" is this allowed?

I was listening to the radio today and seemingly they have voluntary testing on some German/Austrian border. Have you encountered any testing on the borders?

We are now just 5 weeks away from going and is far as i can see if we were going today then it would be okay but in 5 weeks I don't know.

I've bookmarks for FCO, Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Italy which I regularly check in on.

Unless I hear otherwise I will assume I can pass through as I will not be taking passengers, and should not need to stop in Belgium for fuel. On the return I'll fuel in Germany just to get a receipt... the Bravo will actually (just) get from Hemel to Berlin on one tank - though that depends on (a) wind direction and (b) boredom

Just had to check that distance... 700 odd miles I don't think ill be able to eek that out in the coupé and besides that the roads do seem to have a faster flow to them than UK. Could do with a 6 speed box. That's pretty good going for the bravo I seem to remembering getting around 600 in my 1.9jtd.

Yep but you haven't seen Neil driving

From experience,

If you top up in France, you won't need to stop again to get through Belgium and then in to Germany,

If you DID find you needed to stop - but paid at the pump for fuel and interacted with no-one- you should be fine.

Not to put a spanner in the works - but I suspect Europe will start to shut down bit by bit as the media bleats on about a "2nd wave".

Lets hope your trip is fine - and continues!

Regards

MM

Cant be that bad surely... Driving all those miles at warp speed on the autobahn

Fingers are crossed and looking at alternatives routes not to say those alternatives will be good either right enough.

The good thing about getting the ferry at Newcastle is it saves us 900 miles as opposed to using the tunnel but looking at that as option if France is opened in September.

This maybe of interest Neil

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-travel-corridors

Partway down that page is this.

Private vehicles
You don’t need to self-isolate if you travel through a non-exempt country and you don’t stop in the country.

If you do make a stop, you don’t need to self-isolate if:

no new people get into the vehicle
no-one in the vehicle gets out, mixes with other people, and gets in again
You do need to self-isolate if you make a stop and:

new people get into the vehicle, or
someone gets out of the vehicle, mixes with other people and gets in again

Yes... we're in Germany at the moment so it looks, um, interesting... quite how you prove you haven't stopped in Belgium or France is an interesting one; the best I can do I suppose is to ensure I fill up in Germany and keep the receipt.

I need to be there and back to Germany early in September and then the final move in the middle of September...

Neil, I suppose as you say you have no reason to stop so that's sensible not to do so.

I don't recall noticing on our trip in 2018 but are there many pay at the pumps in Europe? From what I've read above we would be okay travelling through with no stops but with 4 weeks now to go there's seem to be a trend closing in.

Back in one piece in spite of flooding that closed the river tunnel in Antwerp and delayed us two hours before we could escape from the queue and find a different way home (via Brussels, as it turned out).

We had arranged to stop at strategic locations in Germany and collected receipts in case we needed to explain why we had not needed to stop in Belgium, Holland, or France. As it turned out we were simply asked 'had we stopped anywhere after Germany?' and that was it - no advice to isolate.

Going to Germany via the Aachen route was a bit of a disaster; lots of roadworks and generally slow. Might consider the reverse of our trip back next time (only without the two hour delay).

Some pumps pay with credit card at the pump, but most that I used involved seeing the cashier. Isolation is generally well handled; you need a mask even if you only want a pee.

Neil

Definetly a re-route will have to happen now with no stops in Netherlands or Austria and no overnight stop in Switzerland either.

Head for Aachen and turn right, go down the Rhine? Pretty route, but of course takes you to Austria... though that's small enough to shoot through, takes you close to the Italian end of Stelvio.