Large bhp or torque?

Posted By: Anonymous

Large bhp or torque? - 11/10/2006 19:59

After a run in with a nissan nevaro that easily out accelerated my 20v n/a

It has 170bhp with 408nm of torque 2ton
20v n/a has 147 bhp and 186nm of torque 1.2ton

Is it better having large torque over larger bhp?

Cheers

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Large bhp or torque? - 11/10/2006 20:04

Well, quite simply - BHP is a function of torque and RPM. There is a formula I can provide if you wish... If you're not a lazy driver then its always beneficial to have more bhp - because you'll make sure your high revving and peaky car is in the correct gear to make the best of it. BHP is a way of expressing the amount of work being done by the engine at that time.

You probably left your car in too high a gear, ya? If you'd down shifted and made better use of your superior power/weight ratio you'd have seen him off. His torque to weight is vastly better however, so if you were to slug it out at low rpm in a high gear he'd trounce you.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Large bhp or torque? - 11/10/2006 20:09

Only real way to beat the 4x4 brigade is more power? I think Fiat did a turbo version of the Coupe..memory serves they were 220Hp as standard?

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Large bhp or torque? - 11/10/2006 20:11

Quote:

Only real way to beat the 4x4 brigade is more power?

I never said that did I?

Oh and don't you mean 'For throwing money into' in your sig?

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Large bhp or torque? - 11/10/2006 20:13

Cheers for that Matt

I was quite surprised at how well the nissan pulled away, I was in third
and quite low down the rev range saw what was coming and put the
foot to the floor expecting to see his nose start retreating.
(It normally does in my 16VT so I expected similar in my 20v N/A)

only for him to carry on past with ease!

Thanks for the explanation, is that why the golf gti diesels are quick
due to low reving engines and high torque outputs?

Cheers

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Large bhp or torque? - 11/10/2006 20:26

Humerous I was being. English confuses me: in most languages object pronouns come before the verb....

I liked my na lots. 2000 VIS with a bit more power, but I learned that it wasn't great for burning off 4x4's or much else. Overtake yes, but not that quickly with 154Hp and 1.3t. 118Hp/ton? and it was game on & pretty equal with most hot hatches.

NA is a great car but rocket assisted it ain't.

(Ducks the flying bricks from the n/a owners association).

Posted By: Wishy

Re: Large bhp or torque? - 11/10/2006 20:43

Loved my n/a to bits so no bricks coming from my direction. Yes it would struggle getting rid of a modern TD but so what! It was still the same great looking car and still great fun to drive. Just didn't have one of those turbo thingies attached.

Posted By: MCMike

Re: Large bhp or torque? - 11/10/2006 21:34

Remember - torque gives you acceleration, power gives you top speed.

Posted By: pinin_prestatyn

Re: Large bhp or torque? - 12/10/2006 00:11

I don't get it, my dad's diesel has the same torque as a standard coop and weighs the same, yet takes 9 secs to 60. So obviously it isn't torque that dictates the acceleration.

Posted By: Richard24

Re: Large bhp or torque? - 12/10/2006 00:38

Nissan do a v6 version as well, could have been that.
Can't say i would want to admit being beat by a 4x4 diesel pick-up.

Posted By: Flea

Re: Large bhp or torque? - 12/10/2006 01:17

Quote:

I don't get it, my dad's diesel has the same torque as a standard coop and weighs the same, yet takes 9 secs to 60. So obviously it isn't torque that dictates the acceleration.

Torque is the turning force applied by the engine whereas bhp is a factor of this turning force multiplied by rpms. BHP = Torque x RPM / 5252. Therefore, up to a certain point a diesel can be as fast or faster than petrol car i.e. in gear short blasts, but the ultimately due to the short rev range it will loose out on the upshift.

Diesels cannot rev beyond 4000-5000rpm therefore they have to be geared accordingly. If they could go beyond this point then they would surpass petrol cars but alas this is not physically possible. Think of an F1 car which produces circa 250-300lbs/ft a relatively modest amount of torque. The difference exists when they can produce this torque at 15000+rpms and therefore adopt suitable gearing i.e. long and low ratios, for extreme acceleration and response.

When people talk of having a nice torquey car over bhp this means low down and mid-range ability. If you had the same torque at the top end then there would be no compromise i.e. you would have the "bhp" also, but unfortunately with forced induction it is very hard to have your cake and eat it

Posted By: pinin_prestatyn

Re: Large bhp or torque? - 12/10/2006 01:22

mmmm cake

Re: diesel cars and revving, I never realised how boring they were! you get all this torque but only till about 4.5K revs and then it just dissappears, the range is very limited and makes driving dull. Couple that with the sound the engine makes, and I don't think petrol is on it's last legs just yet!

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Large bhp or torque? - 12/10/2006 01:34

What you want is a good amount of torque over a large range of revs.

Posted By: barnacle

Re: Large bhp or torque? - 12/10/2006 02:10

Electric engines! Peak torque at stall

Neil

Posted By: Brewster

Re: Large bhp or torque? - 12/10/2006 02:16

Quote:

Electric engines! Peak torque at stall

Neil

And none at speed!

Posted By: barnacle

Re: Large bhp or torque? - 12/10/2006 13:48

Doesn't seem to slow down a train

thinks... constant speed high efficiency gas turbine under the bonnet driving a generator, feeding, say, 40kW pancake motors in each wheel hub...

Neil

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Large bhp or torque? - 12/10/2006 14:29

Seem to remember Rover tried that with the P9 back in the 60's but couldn't get it to work...Modern version would be best with a small, high power aviation turbine but the cost, heat & engineering problems would be high.