ABS is naff bring back skidding

Posted By: growlingbear

ABS is naff bring back skidding - 26/11/2006 02:57

I've had two episodes lately where Abs seems to be counterproductive.

Out in the coupe today when I misjudged a set of traffic lights. SO braked really hard from 20 mph which I assumbed would pull me up just over the line. No drama there was plenty of room, could probably have burned over the junction. As it goes ABS kicks in and THERE'S ALMOST NO BRAKING EFFECT just loads of pedal judder.

Having a look at the road it seemed OK possibley some bus oil, the rain had certainly dried off.

The other episode was much worse and resutled in about three grands worth of damage. Driving a works Pug 206 HDI I was pulling into a layby just of the M1, doing about 30/40, eyed up the stopping area and knowing the usual braking performance in the car put the anchors on. There was a new MINI at the end of my stopping space...

Well again it required hard braking but normally this distance in question was fine. As I discover later the surface at the start of the layby is shocking: uneven with lots of loose stones. ABS kicks in and again it seems there virtually no stopping power. Steered away from the MINI down a ditch. Car ends up perched on a sapling at 45 degree angle. No massive smash because it had slowed a fair bit - stepped out unscathed.

Really dissillusioned with ABS - in both cases I think I could have stopped quicker by skidding. I'm also wondering does all that pedal judder make you back off on the pedal?

Posted By: sugerbear

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 26/11/2006 03:04

Quote:

I've had two episodes lately where Abs seems to be counterproductive.

Out in the coupe today when I misjudged a set of traffic lights. SO braked really hard from 20 mph which I assumbed would pull me up just over the line. No drama there was plenty of room, could probably have burned over the junction. As it goes ABS kicks in and THERE'S ALMOST NO BRAKING EFFECT just loads of pedal judder.

Having a look at the road it seemed OK possibley some bus oil, the rain had certainly dried off.

The other episode was much worse and resutled in about three grands worth of damage. Driving a works Pug 206 HDI I was pulling into a layby just of the M1, doing about 30/40, eyed up the stopping area and knowing the usual braking performance in the car put the anchors on. There was a new MINI at the end of my stopping space...

Well again it required hard braking but normally this distance in question was fine. As I discover later the surface at the start of the layby is shocking: uneven with lots of loose stones. ABS kicks in and again it seems there virtually no stopping power. Steered away from the MINI down a ditch. Car ends up perched on a sapling at 45 degree angle. No massive smash because it had slowed a fair bit - stepped out unscathed.

Really dissillusioned with ABS - in both cases I think I could have stopped quicker by skidding. I'm also wondering does all that pedal judder make you back off on the pedal?

You could have stopped quicker if you used Cadence braking techniques but you wouldn't have been able to continue to steer which is what ABS is about.

I think that you are right about the juddering through the pedal, first time it happened to me I nearly went into the car in front because I lifted off (I thought there was something wrong with the car !!) Once you get used to it then its ok, so its worth having a practice with ABS.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 26/11/2006 03:07

This came up in a long thread in the old forum. General opinion was that a skilled driver could out perform ABS, however Joe Public can't. So its a better option with unlocked brakes and a longer stopping distance and full control against a possible shorter stopping distance with skill or no control, no steering and the car sideways without ABS?

Posted By: growlingbear

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 26/11/2006 03:25

I think sugerbear is right its probably worth practising with ABS.

Incidently got chattin to Sean at coupe meet in Brighouse a few weeks ago. Told me a very hairy story of hopeless ABS in the snow. Prior to his yellow coop he had an Impreza.

He was going downhill towards a wall in hilly Holmfirth West Yorkshire. Brakes absolutely useless on the slippy surface..SO HE SLAMS IT INTO REVERSE, performs a 4WD burnout and saves a hefty repair bill. Priceless.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 26/11/2006 15:51

i hate it. and never had a car with it untill now. so i took the fuse out.

i find that there seem to be alot more brakeing power aswell
but i surpose it all depends on the situation

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 26/11/2006 15:56

My abs is faulty and only comes in after the car starts sliding so it doesnt bother me. Prefer it that way.

Ross

Posted By: Barmybob

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 26/11/2006 18:36

Quote:

Incidently got chattin to Sean at coupe meet in Brighouse a few weeks ago. Told me a very hairy story of hopeless ABS in the snow. Prior to his yellow coop he had an Impreza.

He was going downhill towards a wall in hilly Holmfirth West Yorkshire. Brakes absolutely useless on the slippy surface..SO HE SLAMS IT INTO REVERSE, performs a 4WD burnout and saves a hefty repair bill. Priceless.

And this is precisely why Audi gave the driver the option to turn off the ABS. My Coupé Quattro, Ur Quattro and 2.8 V6 Quattro were all blessed with the ABS off switch. In truth though you should rarely need to turn off ABS.

If I remember correctly my Audi brochures said the switch was only to be used when driving in heavy Snow or on Gravel.

Posted By: GraemeC

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 26/11/2006 18:53

Remember a time a couple of years ago in my dad's company Granada, going down a single lane country road at about 30mph, round a tight corner there's a tractor coming the opposite way in the middle of the road

Car has one wheel on the verge and one on the road, wheel on the verge locks the instant the brake pedal is touched and the ABS decides to unlock the brakes, result - no braking effect at all as we sailed past the tractor

Damm scary

Posted By: PeteP

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 26/11/2006 19:00

Quote:

Remember a time a couple of years ago in my dad's company Granada, going down a single lane country road at about 30mph, round a tight corner there's a tractor coming the opposite way in the middle of the road

Car has one wheel on the verge and one on the road, wheel on the verge locks the instant the brake pedal is touched and the ABS decides to unlock the brakes, result - no braking effect at all as we sailed past the tractor

Damm scary

But he was still able to steer it round and miss the tractor.

Posted By: GraemeC

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 26/11/2006 19:13

Yeah, but would easily have stopped well before the tractor if we'd had some braking ability - rather preferable than piling past half way up the verge

Posted By: PeteP

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 26/11/2006 19:27

Quote:

Yeah, but would easily have stopped well before the tractor if we'd had some braking ability - rather preferable than piling past half way up the verge

Or with one wheel on a zero grip surface, gone spinning off into the scenery.

Posted By: bockers

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 26/11/2006 19:57

Quote:

i hate it. and never had a car with it untill now. so i took the fuse out.

If you have a crash your insurance will be invalid

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 27/11/2006 00:52

Agreed. 9/10 times the ABS works fine unless you are in very unusual circumstances. I've had 3 cars in a row with it and wouldn't buy one without. Nearly wrapped a garage loan Punto up last time that didn't have ABS by stamping on the pedal and locking the wheels.

What I do hate is the idiot traction control / anti skid as fitted by most makers. The Stilo unit is a proper dimwit designed by a granny that actively brakes you out of corners if the car thinks you are pushing too hard..dangerous device. But there is a nice big off switch by the gearstick.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 27/11/2006 00:58

Quote:

Quote:

i hate it. and never had a car with it untill now. so i took the fuse out.

If you have a crash your insurance will be invalid

Why?

Ross

Posted By: bockers

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 27/11/2006 01:23

because non functioning ABS is an MOT failure and no mot = no insurance. I know it is silly as a car without ABS is fine

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 27/11/2006 01:45

Hang on..the MOT is a test of the car's roadworthyness on a particular date?..which is why dodgy garages sell cars with faults with a valid MOT and better ones give you a new MOT when you buy it. All new cars must have ABS as standard..so what is the law if you disable it? Same as taking out seatbelts?

Posted By: bockers

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 27/11/2006 03:33

yes.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 27/11/2006 03:44

But to be honest thats just as relevant as anything that you would fail an mot on. Good point tho.

Ross

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 27/11/2006 05:52

I did some advanced skid pan training a few years ago, the instructors told us the problem with ABS is people lift off the brake pedal once the pulsing starts, in fact you should try and force the pedal through the floor with all your might so that for the (shorter) time the pressure is applied to the brakes you get maximum braking effort before the pressure releases again, on modern cars this should increase the cyclic rate of the ABS and reduce stopping distances.

Posted By: came2dance

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 27/11/2006 06:08

I think yourall talking b@ll@cks. ABS is fine and I don't think any ordinary driver could out perform ABS by cadence braking. (or professional come to that)

ABS doesn't switch off the braking either. Keep on the brakes, steer as required, get back on the gas as soon as.

I find it very hard to get the ABS to cick in on the coupé. In fact I posted on the old forum that I didn't think it was working and it was thew repies that gave me the courage to test it out

fccuk me it works

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 27/11/2006 06:20

If you think the ABS doesn't work on your car it means you're not driving hard enough.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: ABS is naff bring back skidding - 27/11/2006 07:04

I find ABS fine. Not as much fun, but works well. Tested my brakes properly the other night - straight, wet, empty country road at midnight, on go the anchors bloody hard. Slight chirp, in comes the abs, i stop swiftly with no drama.

Thumbs up over here!