is it worth restoring?

i am stacking up a list of parts and things to do to the car to make the car mint.
in my eyes it needs a respary, rear end rebuild, interior update and over haul and new oil cooler andmore bits and bobs.
just done nearly every big job on it. clutch, cambelt,wishbones,tca,handbrake cables,disc and pads all round,cat back exhaust and the list goes on and on!
the thing is i have spent alot on it near 3k but to get it perfect and im the sort of person who needs perfect then i recon another 5-8k to get the power and level of car i would want.
is this worth doing on a 11 year old base model 20vt or should i join the deperication cycle and buy a newer car but i also can' find much i like and what i do like is very expensive or not nearly as fast or flashy.

the other point is it would be worth it if the coop ever gets to a classic car or if it ever gets some old skool cool in later years.

Only worth spending big money on Plus or LE models.

Its always the superior and rarest models that are collectable.

kinda what i was thinking but maybe just for the fact i would have a completly mint old skool fast car that i like it might be worth it.
if im honest i have had mk1 escorts that i restored and stuff and what i really hanker restoring and making a monster is my first fast car a rover 220 gsi n/a and making it in to a mint n/a monster :-)

imo you'll end up with a mint car worth next to nothing compared to what you're sinking in to it. i doubt the std models will make true classic status, as carlt says possibly the top enders might.

either settle for the fact you're refurbing an old car for your own purposes and for which there is NO finacial reward, or get a new one....imo i stress

no, its not worth it from a purely mathematical POV. you will not get back out what you put in, money or time wise. end off

I was thinking about going down the mint restoration route with mine. as it is, looking at it the coupe is fast becoming my every day driver.
this means that its going to be the subject of other peoples crap driving, and even crappier parking

Im going to get to a point were its tidy, no more no less. Ill have dent man de-dent it, sort out the alloys and put a replacement inky bonnet on it.
When the turbo dies, which it will. Its going to get a uprated, but standerd turbo thats it.

with a car that im going to be using every day i see no point at all lumping 2k out for a top spray job and de dented only to get some prat open his door (or her) on it.

besides which, the final nail in the coffin is if you were (god forbid) to have a bump, even the insurance company will not give you the money that its worth

Looking at my priorities at the moment. having a mint coupe is low, having some fun and learning new stuff is higher.
so im looking out for a mr2 mk1 now!

If you're thinking of sinking your money into a Rover 220 N/A, then you may as well sink it into the Coupe instead. Surely it'd be easier to get the power you want out of the Coupe than the Rover?

As said there is going to be no reward for restoring these cars, you do it because you want to.

refurb only if you truly LOVE the car. IF so then accept that it may be worth next to nothing in market value over the next 5 or so years, but to you it would be your little treasure sitting in the garage at home for an occasional drive.

Think of all the people spending thousands on restoring old Alfa's, fiat X19's and integrales. To the right buyer a perfect coupe will be worth some money, a rich man might want to buy a car from his youth or such andbe prepared to pay for a truly concourse car.

If you were to completely strip and restore then the standard model 20VT's will still be desirable to some poeple in many years, just as 40 year old alfa's are. There are several car collectors about, just read autoitalia magazine to see what i mean.

I think parts will be the problem though, eventually supply will be limited, Fiat will stop producing certain bits for the coupe, and 2nd hand spares may be not existent or un-useable.

I recently mapped an old school BMW E30 M3. You wouldn't believe what these go for now i.e. 15-30k for the really good ones. Of course the tuning game has come on a long way and owners are still keen to not only keep them in pristine condition but also make them more driveable and faster. A simple remap takes the 2.3 195bhp model to 216bhp, remove the AFM and carbon airbox and 230-240bhp5 is on tap... fantastic from a four pot

The Coupe will start to pick up no doubt, that said you either do it for yourself or not at all.

a friend of mine has a MINT E30 M3. Every nut and bolt has been replaced for new genuine BMW, all completely standard, and he has replaced every wear and tear item on it.

I dont think he realises its value though, so id better tell him.

hmm depends how much money you are willing to spend. Im in the same situation. But i find with restoring, you sort one problem, then you only face another.

If this wasn't a Le it would have been in pieces by now

the fact its not a l.e or a plus kinda helps me as without aircon i can do alot of the work alot easier and make it cheaper to do!
the main probelm is i can't find any newish car i either like or can really afford and also the depprication it terrible.
put it this way if i had bought a bmw 330 sport with some ac gear on 5 years ago i was really looking at and went to buy it untill i was sat down by someone and i decieded maybe not a great idea and i would have lost 16k in 5 years!
this would have been far more expensive than sorting the coop out and keeping it for 5 years for example!

the other thing is the e30 m3 is a true collector item and always will be unlike the coop. the m3 was collectable the day it was sold!
other point is old skool ford and stuff really increase in value but i just doubt the coop will do this.

Peanuthead, the thing is, the Coupe isn't a car. its a lifestyle choice.

well i think i still need to get a ride in a very well sorted coop in the dry and see what its like.
im also worried i nearly rebuild the car and it still falls to pieces.
then saying that most new cars are unreliable now adays and you are unable to maintain them yourself.

Your so right!

It depends IMO what you mean by is it worth it.

Finacially it will never be worth it. So it depends if worth it is finacial or emotional worth.

I hate to overly argue with Carlt, but with well sorted Triumph spitfires fetching £5k plus now (according to wheeler dealers or is it deals on wheels or whatever), I'd say there's no reason why a standard 20VT wont out perform a spitfire pricewise when its time comes around.

It may make more finacial sense to restore a plus (and a LE if you must (god I hate that interior)) but it still wouldn't be finacially worth it.

Theres probably not a classic car out there were restoration makes finacial sense unless you buy cheap, work to a strict budget to do the bare necessities and hopefully sell on at a profit...but even that wont insure profit.

So it all boils down to will it be worth it for you.

What he said.

at the end of a day i relise you will never make money on a car but not so keen to hemraging money and it not be worth it.
i look at sort of 5 year old cars like rx8's and 350z's and some bmw's but not really really apeal or have a major flaw like 2 seats or terible fuel consumption or weak engines or horffic service prices!

10 points to JKD for coming up with the quote of the day

i should have bought a rs500 3 dr cossie i got offered 3 years ago for 7k it is now worth 31 grand!
or kept my mk1 escort that i sold for 3k 2 years ago and now the engine is worth more than that!

Hindsight eh

I think that's the problem with the coop... There's so many reasons why it leaves us wondering, what on earth am I going to be able to replace it with.

I'm pretty sure my manifold has developed a crack, I need to do cam belt etc pretty shortly. Drivers side wishbone has gone again. And there's a few other bits and pieces I suspect probably need sorted. In short more money than I would normally spend buying a car, never mind maintaining one, the head really battles with the heart, but theres nothing else on 4 wheels that I could afford that would make me feel like the coop makes me feel. Just what do you replace it with?

I was having this dilemma a couple of months ago with so much to do on the car. Seeing that there was only about 500 left made up my mind, plus with the car being worth little more that £600-700, what else could I get that looks so good and is so much fun. Gonna tidy the engine and fix everything that's broke. Will probably stop short of a respray and spend the money on track days instead.

The rebuild continues....... http://worsleysturbocoupe.blogspot.com/

Phil

Maintaining > yes

Restoring > No!

That will be the 16VT then

the problem is im not very good at looking crap paintwork or anything and all the creaks and nocks annoy me but its not that bad yet.

the problem is im not very good at looking crap paintwork or anything and all the creaks and nocks annoy me but its not that bad yet.

thing is i also keep looking at the coop and thinking how nice it looks and im happy with the power at the moment.
i get a sort of wobble rear and and it feels a little detached at the font endsometimes. i have done the whole front bushes and loads of stuff. would lov to have a mint coop with a good power out put and decent handdling or should i just buy a 4-5 year old car with it all and bite the huge mount i would loss when i sell it?

sounds like your rear trailing arms, (in my limited knowledge)

it does to me to or the rear bushes. see i am not sure if i want to start rebuliding the back end as then i might as well do the whole car bit by bit but then what would be a really nice car for sensible money that i won't lose shed loads on. maybe a rx8 or something?

In a word, if you love it, then it's a big YES!

There is just nothing else you could get for the money that is as special, standard or not, the prices have bottomed in my opinion, a well looked after one will now hold it's price. The more that are broken, the more that are left to die, the better things are for those of us that stick with them, if you don't intend keeping it long term then just maintain it as best you can, if you intend keeping it for the long term, then just go for it, it doesn't have to happen overnight and it's still cheaper than buying newer and you can spend what you want, when you want to, no great rush.

Gareth

no offence, but you ask this question far too often for my liking. may be time to move on...

at 5 years old most cars have done the bulk of their deprecation. its the first 3 years that hammer the value.

eg. a 147GTA can be had for £6000 now on a 03/04 reg. The depreciation has slowed now, so it wont lose much value over the next 2 - 3 years.

i had a wonderful drive in the coop tonight and it was a great car :-)
the reason i ask the question so much is i really value getting the most car for my money.

i really like the alfas i really do just worried they would be very expensive to maintain and i do around 300 to 500 miles a week at the moment and petrol is a issue is its very thristy.
also 2 of my bosses have alfas and they have broken down so many times.

also a bit worried that once the reccesion has blown over mr brown will make the cars newer than 02 tax stupid. i know he decided against the £400 tax for now but give i 3-4 years and the tax could be a grand or so!

The tax was based on emmissions for vehicles registered after 2001. Of course tax will go up, so unless you purchase a mincers car with low emmissions then you will get taxed what ever.

Just look at yesterdays telephone tax, where every fixed phone line will get a annual £6 surchage to fund faster broadband for MPs to download more porn!

Just enjoy your car and don't worry about what might/might not happen!

Good luck!

the thing is they will find it very hard to tax cars pre 2001 with stupid sums according to there co2 bracket but buy a high co2 car and if the goverment want they will completely bankrupt you or make you car worthless!

so more reasons for keeping your coupe! obviously the government will find alternative ways, but I personally favour 'pay as you drive tax' so its relative - but we all know they will screw us, whether you drive a coupe or 4X4 (I have both!)

oh don't get me wrong i know they will screw us but its limited on what they can do on pre 2001 cars.

Yup! I also drive a coop and V8 Land Rover, at the moment at least, the tax on both is sub £200. This will almost definitely go up at some point, but the Land Rover for example owes me little, I bought it cash and it's flown through it's last 3 MOTs, it needs brake discs at £50 for 4 for the next MOT in September. However, even if they double it (tax that is) the cost is spread over 12 months in theory, its still not much. The biggest worry for most people running older motors should be the cost of petrol and the proposed increase in tax on second hand car parts I heard discussed some time ago.

New cars are only easier to live with/afford if you can buy them cash. I know several guys who run newer performance cars that pay more on monthly repayments alone than I pay for tax, insurance and maintenance over a month, and other than my mate with the Cayman, none of the cars I'd consider as special as a coop and they ALL, mostly somewhat begrudgingly, admire the coop, warts and all!

Gareth

i do agree with you on that spee. the repair costs are going to be the biggest factor is going to be repair bills and all the cars i look at are the sme or worse on fuel.
the other problem is that most new cars i look at have reliablity problems.

the other main problem is there is hardly anything special out there! not really any newish rare cars and nothing special even thought the coop isn't the most special car i have owned it still is a styling classic and performs well.

i like the rx8 for exapmle but not that reliable and bad on fuel and are everywhere.
alfa 156 gta i again like but running cost are much higher than the coop and not as quick.
focus rs mk1 is a greta car but quite pricey to buy

the coop is a really nice car to drive but somethimes not as lairy or involving as some cars i have had. can this be improved or is it the nature of the coop?

You can make the coop as lairy as you like!

One of the cars I drove while looking was a superb drive, the best driver of all of them, but I decided I couldn't live with the ride on a day to day basis, but it was tight, precise and felt so much faster than the others despite have (only!) about 245bhp.

You're slowly answering your own questions really, sounds like you want to keep it to me, just bare in mind it will be an up and down thing, sometimes you'll love it, other times you'll want to soak it in fuel and set fire to it!

I'd suggest keeping it and having a good run-about, just so you're not left without a car.

i know where you are coming from and when the garage is cleared and fixed it will be nested in the garage and maybe a car to cruise in bought!
every car i have ever owned has been a love hate thing!

if it was a l.e or something then i think i would have made my mind up already but its a base model but sometimes thats a better car. less weight and easier to work on.

if i sold the coop to buy another coop i would end up spendign loads more money on a different car it just what im like lol

the power on my car isn't to bad i must admit although its got some flat spots so need to investigate.

its easy to look at different cars and think the grass is grenner but i know sometimes thats not always the case. its just hard sometimes you get the urge to look for new things. i think its bordem but maybe the a new car isn't the answer maybe making my one very sorted is?
i think i need to see what a decnet coop is all about but there isn't many people who can show me what a 300bhp+ coop is albout in my area.

I will take you out in mine when its all done if you want!

that would be greta thanks mate :-)
wouldn't mind getting another ride in lukes car as its about the power i want and more importantly the suspension setup i would ideally have.

I should have about 320hp and gaz coilovers with about every suspension mod possible for a coop!

sounds ace mate! how do you find the coilovers?
where in surrey are you as my girl friend lives in chertsey so im in surrey alot

I am in Shepperton so only down the road,i have not got coilovers yet!

oh excellent that would be great even just to meet up for something ot eat and a drink now and then!

i have just put 12 months tax on the coop so i think its staying for the moment. main probelm is that now i can't buy anthing else i like without a loan and i have done that before and not doing it again.

the coop fits the bill well and i just think i need to get off my butt and fit the pile of parts i have to go on and also source some decent parts to bring her up to 100% again then think about some tasty parts :-)

just to show you the extent of why i am wondering what to do with the coop.
here is the list of stuff done or need to be done.in the last 6 months its had
wishbones
tca
droplinks
rad
cambelt
water pump
steering gator
exhaust manifold
clutch
cat back exhaust
front and rear discs
front and rear pads
anti squeal shims
front brembo caliper
handbreak cables
new door clips
bonnet strut
bonnet cable
new tyres front
new gtech chip (old one failed)
new dump valve as old one suspect but turned out ok

stil needs
cam cover gasket
pollen filter
fuel filter
oil change
thermostat
rear caliper
abs sensor
down pipe leaking
new shocks maybe
right hand engine mount
stablizer bar
right hand brake line
lots of paint work
some rear bushes and maybe rear wheel bearing
wheels refurbed
headlight refurbed
header tank cap
re under sealing
engine bay unerneath de rusting
under tray
alarm
possible turbo
new center console
interior fan
air bag light turning off
new boot liner ( left side damaged)
drive side seat creaks so new seats


but then i am way way to picky!
the list is endless hence why i am debating getting a new car and not bothering with the coop!
the coop is on a r reg and 78,000 miles on the clock and i got it with most these faults and it had 62,000 miles on the clock!
should i just bite the bullet and get a newer car or get on with it and stop moaning lol
most parts have been bought on the the to do list but not installed yet.

should be done and finished in a afternoon then?

yeah lol sounds about right.
problem is with a whining girl fried i just don't ever get the time to work on the car anymore.

my misses is encouraging me to get a motorbike over another project...i think she is trying to kill me

Yes

And another yes .....

and take some one with you so you dont buy another car with all the faults you state were present when you bought it...

I dont think you actually have that much to do mate. looking at the list, its a lot of fiddly stuff. non of which is that mad, just time consuming

its all about what you want out of life? if its not looking after a 10 year old fiat, move on. for me at the moments its a bit of fun, something to keep me occupied

so as a few posts up, only you can deside

the only reason i bought this coop was to get my little brother out of money bother!i doubt i would have this coop otherwise but i didn't think it was this bad.
sam i actually agree there isn't that much to do and its mainly cheap stuff. things like the turbo and shocks and stuff i feel should near need changing due to the age of the car not because they are shot.
after a nice drive to day the car is begging me to keep it as it was driving so lovely.
the only thing was it tried to lose its oil filter! done the oil change yesterday and torqued the filter but it worked loose.

looked into a brand new s2000 today but to be honest even they would give me a massive discount i still think i would be a fool parting with to much money at this time.
quite fancy a mk1 focus rs but i am actually thinking the coop is a better drivers car!

oh yeah the jack needs replacing to as it makes the car fall off half way through jacking it right up lol

well i have started a bit on the coop now.
changed the oil and its purring like a kitten now :-) even thought i old oil filter was hanging on for dear life! might of had a new car if that fell off on the motorway!
changed the oil to silkolene pro r 10 /50 and i love this oil. i used cheaper oils before but i thought it was about time i treated the coop.

found a small boost leak on the actulator hose which had come pretty much lose.

looking at some new shocks and springs for her to make the handling a bit better and also fit the mountin of parts i have.

i was thinking of a new car but quite simply there is not alot i like and what i do like is well over 20k and i can really afford that.

Peanut - If you dont like the handling of the coop after experiencing this then it's time to move on.

I know what you mean with looking at annoying chips etc. and wanting to fix them - I am the same.

I really can't see coupes getting into cult status like integrales or cossies, which still go for £15K+

A mint 20VT will go for £3K now, with all the major jobs done, and will take a while to sell at that price. A well modified one £4K at the most.

if your coupe needs that much work done on it then I would sell it on and buy another one that is sorted as this will work out cheaper for you, and save you the time working on it - unless that's a hobby for you.

If you are driving 4 or 500 miles a week then either use the coupe as an everyday car and accept that it will never be mint as a result, or get a diesel hack - you will be saving £150+ on fuel a month to fund a toy car.

to be fair most the stuff on that list is me being very fussy and not actually a prblem and i got it checked by both joe and paul at m/m and paul has done all the work and can't really fault the car.
i know what you mean by getting a hack and a play car but i am the sort of person who thinks a car should be used a bit and i can't see the point of having a really nice and expensive car to use in nice weather at the weekend in this country.

i know it will never hit cult status and i have kinda relised that if i do the coop its because of love for it.

don't get me wrong if i was 20k richer than i am now and not wanting to buy a house i would get something really nice but most cars lurking around the 6-8 k mark are going to either be boring or be old enough for me to worry about the reliablity.

my options are,
keep the coop and make it handle and act like it do but if i am honest its good as it is
keep the coop and save alot and buy something really nice in a couple of years.
sell the coop and get a loan to get something nice.
get a 306 d sports and then get something mental for the garage.

now you have your rx7 how often do you drive it and what do you do for getting to work?

rev 3-4 mr2 tubby thats all im going to say

yeah i would love a mr2 turbo but to be fair i just think im better keeping the coop as it does everything i want it to just would like to make it a little better handling and make it mint.

if it wasnt for my old decrepid body (well before its time i might add) that would be the car of my choice. Like you however. the coupe is by far the best match for my needs and confort..with the occasional squirt of pure power

just having new droplinks, wishbones and new tiers made a hell of a difference to me

well the fact i do use 4 seat quite a bit and also i do alot of motoray driving 350 miles a week so doing 30mpg in the coop is good and the reason i sold the skyline was the fuel bills each week.
also im a big guy i body build and 6ft so little cars don't suit well.
i hate having common cars that is one of the biggest people i have is that i always want a special and rare car and normally on a smallish budget.

my problem is i get very picky over stuff and want everything perfect!

I was driving the RX a few miles to work, and then 5 to the gym - then home.

Plan was to buy a daily town car. I test drove a focus and hated it. I thought it would be OK for driving to the occasional meeting as well.

The money has now gone on some hybrid turbos and a clutch + fuelling system for the RX.

In a few months I'll get a punto or KA for the Mrs. to learn on. If it was up to me I'd spend a few grand on a passat TDI, but she wants something smaller.

I just bought a bike for daily use for me - which I'm likely to stick to for a while yet, am actually finding it quite fun, and no fuel costs. I'm lucky that I'm close to where I work at the moment.

The RX is horrible to drive in traffic, your legs get hot from the engine bay heat etc, however for 2 hour journeys cruising its fine IMO apart from the fuel consumption. It actually feels weird getting in a 'normal' car as you are so high up - but I have always prefered low sporty cars to floaty barges anyway.

PS - might even get an N/A coupe in 6 months or so if the mileage I do for meetings goes up.....

i really like the rx and has always been on my to own list but if im honest i imagine i would end up doing loads of bit on a rx just like the coop due to its age.
i don't think il be doing 350 miles a week on the m4 and m25 on a push bike lol if i worked closer and got a new girl friend then maybe.

The RX was a contender for me, but the rebuild costs when it goes wrong were worrying. that and the hole fuel situation. there not cheep to run them things
suba, what mpg are you getting?

Yes - the RX is high maintenance, and if I needed to do lots of miles I would not have bought one to do it in.

In three months I've spent £3,500 ish getting it as close to perfect as I can - another £3K will go on it soon for 400bhp or so (as the turbos are smoking I've got an excuse...) I also had it fully re-sprayed which was not really needed... You also need 3K in the bank for a re-build. As with a coupe turbo, it's not the buying cost that needs to be considered, but next to a TVR which I was considering I think running cost will be cheaper on the RX, about 2-3K a year with track useage and no more than 4,000 miles a year - you also wont get anything that offers so much handling fun short of a noble of exige....

There's also a rather nice change to the exhaust note at 4,500rpm when the 2nd turbo comes on....

i totally agree with you suba and if i wasn't doing 15-18k miles a year i think i would get one but the fact is i like havinga fast nice looking car thats practical to use.
i just don't think i could live with know i had a rx in the garage and drive a crappy £500 306 for th other 15k i do a year!
better of doing the coop and using that and to be fair the coop would be cheaper to maintain to.

once i have my own house secured and have a better garage and more money il get something like the rx and also i won't be doing silly milage as i will be living with the girl friend so no need to drive loads.
on the other hand if i had a well sorted 400bhp coop i doubt there would be much reason to go to the rx apart from it being rwd.

I dont mean to slag off coupes at all - I love them, but:

A well setup, tuned RX will utterly destroy a 300 bhp coupe in every way. At 330bhp my RX was quicker than my 344 bhp coupe that I had spent a lot of money on, with almost N/A throttle response. Handling wise there is so much more to it than RWD...

With coupe prices as they are now you just have to bear in mind that unless you are keeping the car for a good few years any money that you spend is money wasted. Buyers dont care if the oil cooler is about to pop, brake hoses need doing etc.... they just want to spend under £2K for one...a shame, but there you go.

it is more about just rwd but at the same token a 400bhp coop can be a serious car.
the probelm with the rx7 is that it is a very good sports car but it really is very expensive to run! the coop would offer alot of the rx thrills without the petrol and rebuild costs.

if i was doing 4k a year then i would have a rx but the fact is that for proberly the next 2 years im will be doing 15-18k a year and 1ompg isn't going to cut it and nor is having a great car locked in a garage while i drive a rusty bucket around.
i really need a fast practical car that iosn't stupid to run .
rx out of the window.

I can't think of anything else that is more suited for you than a coupe then.... ;-)

heres a idea. maybe i could keep the coop for the day to day and then use the money on modifing the coop and buy something like a rx7!

I ran both for a while with coupe for everyday and meetings. I was soooooooo tempted to keep the coupe, but having two cars that I really cared about and needed a lot of attention was just not sensible.

I would also have spent all my spare time fixing bits on one or the other....

You really appreciate how good coupes are for the money when you start driving other cars in the same price bracket as a replacement.

well thats the problem i have come from much more expensive cars but actually i rather like the coop it is pretty much as good :-) i find really the only thing that detracts the coop enjoyment is that i am used to high powered rwd cars and as you well know track focused rwd cars with alot of power demand to be respected on the road and are very playful and also give a degree for thrills on the fact they play up but i kinda miss that with the coop and you really have to nail it to make the coop misbehave.
i don't think i could afford trackdays and stuff now if i had something like a rx so maybe getting the coop to a good level but without spending to much money and taking it on trackdays and europe trips might make it more fun.

im actually looking forward to getting more of the coop sorted this weekend :-) suns out and and i want the coop spot on.
spoke the the girl friend about maybe doing a trip around the alps and stuff to make me enjoy the car more.
also resisting buying nasty parts for it as really i need to just get it mint first!

looking at getting some nice parts for this now.
koni shocks :-)
rare volk wheels :-)
nigel lower brace :-)
my own custom oil cooler kit :-)
apex springs :-)

going to look good :-)

koni's bought :-)
rad cap bought :-)
oil cooler idea thought up so might have a nice 19 row oil cooler with custom pipes made by me installed by next oil change but otherwise i have some oil coolers on offer :-)

got lots of bit in the garage to go on now.
think im going to be very busy over the weekends now for a very long time.