Announcing: Star Trek for 20v/vt

No, it's not an April Fool's joke...

While waiting for Joe to stop swearing at my car yesterday (MOT - dead sidelight , full service, cambelt change, clutch slave...) I took the opportunity to revisit the Bosch comms software, the got some of the bugs out.

I now have a very definitely alpha version of star trek for the 20v, 20vt, the anything else that uses the same ECU (Bosch M2.10.4).

It needs more work, as it has a number of known issues, the some more functionality is desired. However, it'll be available for download probably later today - I'll post when I have a location.

This version requires the usual blue 409 KKL USB adaptor the OBD->3-pin adaptors listed in the star trek FAQ in the FAQ section, the works on Windows XP (probably W7 but untested yet). You get those from eBay, not from me.

Usage

This program runs as a windows console application. That means you have to start the terminal first - /start/run/cmd

Then click in that window the change to the directory where you've saved the exe file you'll have downloaded (the desktop is a good a place as anywhere): cd Desktop

Connect the USB adaptor the make sure you've downloaded the drivers from FTDI (either on the disk that sometimes comes with the adaptor, or from the links on the FAQ page). Check which port number it's been allocated by the system using the device manager; you'll need that later.

Connect the adaptor to the car - don't forget the red lead needs to be connected to the battery positive (you might need to extend it!) the turn the ignition on or start the car.

Run the program - startrek_bosch_M2_10_4 com4 <-- assuming that 'com4' the port that's been allocated. On mine, it was 'com115' but I've had a *lot* of adaptors stuck in my computer!...

Information

The system will churn through a few stages before it shows the actual data:
- it announces that it's initialised the serial port
- after a couple of seconds, it will start printing a string of 1s the 0s while it wakes up the ECU
- once the ECU responds, it sends the serial ID for the ECU which is printed at the bottom of the page
- thereafter, the ECU running data is shown on the top half of the screen, the any errors from the ECU memory are shown in the bottom half. Generally, the running data is colour coded - green means it's normal, yellow means it's close to a limit, the red means it's unusual - for example, if it's running too hot or the battery voltage is too high.
- a tumbler \|/- cycles through so you can see what's happening.

Known issues

- there is no error recovery. If the ECU drops comms - as it does from time to time - then the thing will suddenly show lots of zeros. It may respond very slowly to a 'q' to quit, but a 'ctrl-c' will usually work to kill it fairly rapidly.
- I'm not sure all the colour coding for the data is quite right yet.

Future enhancements

- it's not as quick as I'd like - it asks for the error data every time around the loop, the that takes quite a long time. I'll do something about that. The widget gets around this by asking for error data only every ten seconds or so.
- the error display shows a number in brackets before the error - this is the error counter; set to 64 when the error first occurs the incremented every time it occurs after; decremented every time the engine is started. So a number 64 or more means you've got an active error; a number 63 or less means you've *had* an error, but it's not currently present. I'd like to colour code those; red for active, yellow for old errors.
- I'd like to include a command to clear the error memory.
- Long term, I'm thinking about getting the direct sensor values (that is, before they're massaged by the ECU). I'm not sure how useful this is.
- Long term, I'm also thinking about the actuator tests. I think it would be useful to be able to test the fuel pump, injectors, etc, the I think this ECU can do this.

I'll post an address for the code later.

Thanks Barnacle,

I'm after something like this as my temp sensors seem to be working oddly and I can't figure out if it is the sensor or the thermostat.

Would a blue adaptor with this description work with the software?

USB 409.1 KKL VAG-COM OBD 2 II VW AUDI SKODA SEAT Cable

Good stuff Neil

Neil, Thanks

i recognise all the words, just not anything they're trying to convey

Skinflint, him's the animal.

Okay, available for download source and executable
Please let me know problems.

I'll be making changes for a while, so expect new versions.

Neil, a massive thanks for this. I'm going to brave the snow (more sleet actually and probably more shorts and t-shirt weather after last time round) to test this now.

Thanks Neil, I've ordered one up.

I'm just wondering- I know of 2 iPaqs going begging that run Windows Mobile. Everybody's ditching them for iPhones now.

Would your source compile onto Windows Mobile?

Which connector on the coup e does this plug into ?
Paul

Guys, see the widget and microwidget FAQs for connector details - (but to make it easy, on most 20v/vt it's on the front of the washer bottle).

Skin, don't forget you need both adaptors. Again, details in the FAQs.

Well the sun has come out and the software worked flawlessly! Happy to report my car is very healthy and in a double whammy I can confirm my dash water temp reads the same as the ecu, bonus.

Thanks again

This sounds very promising, can't wait to give it a try. Great work as always Neil.

Gareth

Great work Neil!

looking foreard to seeing/testing this out!

Good job, I look forward to using this (though hopefully I won't have to!).

the ecu connector next to the horns.......

Well done barnacle! Haven't had a chance to test yet as my coup's been u/s since mid jan but cant wait to give it a go. I know your very busy with all sorts of other business, but you know you enjoy this stuff, any roadmap for a fancy gui display like the 16v version?

One of our colleagues is considering a GUI version.

Update: latest version at http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk/coupe/startrek/startrek_bosch_M2_10_4.v1.zip - note that although this is a newer version, this will export the same filenames for both source and executable as the previous version.

Operation change:
- instead of typing 'comxx' to specify the port, you now need just the port number (for compatibility with 16v versions) (e.g. startrek_bosch_M2_10_4 4)

Bugfixes:
- crashed if more than five errors present - in spite of the doc, it can hold at least seven errors (I know, I had them!) and I only left space for five. Can now accommodate ten errors and display up to seven.
- clearing no-longer-valid errors not properly working. Fixed.

New functionality:
- faster response for current status; error memory only read every twenty times round the loop - about every twenty seconds.
- 'd' or 'D' key will silently clear all stored errors. This will not be apparent until the error updates after up to twenty loops.
- coloured indication of error currency; red if it's still considered valid, otherwise yellow

To Do:
- crash recovery - at the moment, if it stops, control-C!

Confirmed to work with Windows 7 and XP. Reports of other OS's would be appreciated, along with any errors or bugs.

Would it be possible to run the car and monitor at the same time.....say run the lead from the bay into the cab ?
Paul

Yes, though you may need an extension lead for the USB. Something like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Belkin-Pro-Extension-Cable-1-8m/dp/B0000DG4WP

Otherwise it doesn't stretch past the steering wheel. You'll need another person to read it if you're driving, of course.

I've had a look at the FAQs, but can't quite figure out what I need?
The device I have bought is USB to OBDII, is there something that goes on the OBDII end to connect to the car?


Sorry - just saw your post that there's an OBD - 3 pin adaptor needed.

Can't wait to give this a try.
Do you have any screenshots barnacle ?
Have to say,well done
Paul

Its not what you would call pretty spit, I haven't checked but I expect it to be purely text based at this point

It's very pretty. Got coloured letters and all!

No screenshots yet; it's raining! Perhaps someone playing in the sunshine can oblige?

Sam, it *would* be small and simple, if Microsoft weren't involved. Instead, it's 400kB... though I dp deliberately link everything statically. Most of that's probably windows.h includes. And apparently these days you have to embed a manifesto in the software. Maybe I'll compile it on MSVC++4.2, see how big it is there.

A brief note on the error count: the errors are displayed with a number in front of them e.g. (5) temperature sensor open circuit. That number is the ECU's error count.

When an error occurs, that count is set to 64. If it's one of the errors that turns on the injector light, and the count is greater than 64, the light is on. Every time you start the car after it being off for a few minutes, if the error is no longer there, the number is decremented. When it gets to zero, the error is removed from the table.

If the error is still there the next time the ECU has a check, the count is incremented. I don't know how often it looks, but I suspect some are checked only when the engine is first started, and some checked live - implausibility errors in particular. I think also that there's some sort of time-based filter.

Whatever, if there's an entry in the table, you've had an error. If the number is under 64, it's got better - this happens quite often, nothing to worry about. If it's 64 or higher, the error has not only happened, but it's happened several times or across several checks. It doesn't mean that the error is still present, but it means the system thinks its important enough for you to worry about it.

The words I've used in the text error messages are those from the documentation. I don't know what they all mean - e.g. FRA adjustment - so your guess is as good as mine!

I am investiaging prettifying the 20VT version myself with barnacles blessing but I am not going to promise anything.

I'm very busy with work currently and for the next couple of weeks but I might start something soon.

I would like a bit of an idea on what people would like to see however, if anyone has any good ideas?

My current thoughts are a tabbed view: main tab showing the current status, a tab for errors, and a tab for showing a graph of the data (i.e select a value to track and it plots a real time history of the value over the last X seconds/minutes).

(Suggestions only for the GUI please, I'll just be displaying the data that barnacles lovely code can produce!)

-wolfman

P.s Just to make sure: I am not going to promise anything

I may be talking through my A....but is it possible to produce
a pretty screen with bar graphs measuring realtime values....RPM...temp...etc. which can then be used to take screen shots at different times after the run has finished ?
Might make a nice comaprison possible between individual readings at differnt times.
If the above is a load of tosh....I apologise

Spit, its possible to do anything, Neil is however pushed for time like the best of us and writing a pretty GUI is hard work/time intensive.

I'm just thankful that I can use a £10 cable and my laptop to read codes than have to hunt for a elusive second hand widget!

Edit-

Wolfman, can you write it in VB of some format please

Edit2

Didnt see the post above this + 1 (aka I should take more notice)

fair enough...He did ask the question though and I really do appreciate the work that has been put in by everyone

Yup all suggestions welcome with the caveat that I am not going to definitely manage to get anything working, and if I do it won't be for a while!

Sam: After discussion with barnacle I think I'm going to go down the C# route and make it open source so that anyone can tinker / extend it like I will be doing with his code.

-wolfman

How will you be exchanging data, Unless you plan to reuse his original code and essentialy create a front end?

Probably a discussion for a different thread ... but basically I will wrap his C code in a DLL and create a C# application that uses the DLL, calling into his code via the DLL interface allowing me to develop the app independently of his code - so if he upgrades his code I can just update the DLL and not my GUI code!

That is the plan anyway, its just investigation at the moment into whether this is feasible.

Edit: This also allows any language capable of supporting DLLs to use it! So you could create a VB app that uses the same DLL if you so wished ...

-wolfman

Right over the top my head
I will just stick with S7 statement list...that's about my limit.
Sounds good though and when it's finished,it sure is going to be something to see.

Which means of course that I have to unroll my code to simplify the factorisation...

For any software engineers sniggering at my efforts, I'd just like to say that this is an essentially linear approach at present, really just a proof-of-concept. Elegant code happens later!

I'd wait till I prove the concept works barnacle, no point in wasting your time if it doesn't!

-wolfman

Great work Barnacle.

Oh and Barnacle, for god's sake man, use the proper parlance! Call it a prototype and announce the fact you are going to be using agile development via the scrum methodology so that you can synergise the product development and voila, no one cares what the code looks like now, they will just have confused looks on their faces!

-wolfman

Just a teaser not much to see as my car is not indoors and hence not connected but...
should have B'sWCSv0.5b finished hopefully on Monday and may just may post a video....



sorry for the thread-jack

Keep up the good work. But don't get too deep in the logic - I'm just testing a complete rewrite of the comms software. It uses more palatable structurea now instead of globals all over the place, makes it easier to encapsulate.

Shame it doesn't quite work!

Neil what's the main benefit of bypassing the widget?
My software is not standalone it uses the Barnacle widget and just reads data from that. It should output errors in English as well as binary (so you can check that its got it right) and the last function will be to allow the user to alter the widget display with drop down list boxes.
I may add some graphing and telemetry functions too.

The advantage of this, as against the widget, are:

1) it's significantly cheaper than the widget
2) I don't have any widgets for sale at present and won't have in the foreseeable future
3) it can display all the running data on one screen
4) it can display errors and error history in text
5) it can delete the error memory.
6) I don't have to do any soldering!

Other than that, it's crap!

Excellent work

Had a fiddle earlier and can confirm it works on a 20V NA

Actually found my long lost ecu connector in the engine bay after a good hunt. Result!

I take it the errors are shown where I've got the immobiliser issue mentioned?:

Yeah, and you found a bug in the software, too... I forgot the error count!

You must be on the first version? Try the second one.

I'll try it tomorrow barnicle and let you know how I get on.
I'll post some screen shots too as someone else could not be arsed

Someone else is trying to find out why the tidied up version won't talk to the serial port any more ???

Id expect that some one else is questing why he bothers on occasion with posts like that

Pardon

Chill, Sam - Paul's teasing me.

Im having a bad day, please ignore me

does anyone have any links to the required cables for sale??

I do but I can't be arsed doing it.....

Ok...I

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150394801457&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220560818367&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Ok...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150394801457&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150394801457&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

I have absolutely no idea what any of this computer speak is about but it all looks very interesting.

For a man who does have a computer but has no idea how or why it works, is this thing that Neil has invented easy enough for me to put on a lap top and make things happen.

My computing technical ability stretches to putting a disc in a laptop and waiting for the disc to change the picture on the screen unfortunately.

Give me anything mechanical or electrical and I can fix it, give me a computer and I'm stuck

Yes. That's the whole point. But wait a couple of days; there's another version due out, probably later today. No functional change but a lot of internal changes and some bugfixes.

Thanks for this, Im looking forward to testing with it.

Updated version
http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk/coupe/startrek/startrek_bosch_v2.zip

Usage as the last version; startrek_bosch_v2 4 (assuming your USB is at serial port com4).

Minor bugfixes: missing error counts inserted, changed some warning colour levels slightly, text cue for error deletion.

Major internal changes: to make life simpler for anyone trying to wrap a GUI around it, I've simplified the calls to the packet handling for the comms signal. Also factored out the conversion from error type/code to text. Could still use the initialisation routine factoring out - next time?

Previous version known to work with XP, Vista, W7 and on 20V and 20VT (won't work on VIS, can't do much about that).

Confirmation of this version working would be appreciated (OK on W7 64 bit).

Neil,

Is this something that can be put on a disc, loaded to the laptop then just connected to the car ?

I'll pay for the disc and someones time obviously

Or better still, a disc and the cables as a complete kit. I'd be willing to pay real cash money for that

Just tried with Vista and I think it works

I am getting error in ram address and not a clue what that means ?
I did have the engine off though....may give it a try with it running.
Looks good though mate.
paul
ps....was dry so I could be arsed going outside and taking Piccy....

Your problem could be with the 120% Alcohol Paul.

I know my brain throws up error messages with hard liquor at that percentage

My be right there mate
Do you think the old bill would mind me driving around with a laptop strapped the dash

Prt Sc is your friend

Was it working ok with your car running Paul?

I will give it another go in a minute with it running.
I'll post back with some more pics.
paul

just ordered up my cables will be interested in this and as I have a car pc installed it should be usefull.

I obtained the same, but the adapter is not connected to the car (not powered by 12 volts)

For those that want to know what to buy I would recommend the following

The OBD to 3-pin connector

The 409 KKL USB adaptor

You can then plug it all in, go into control panel (on xp) and find the serial port and make a note of the serial port number its using).

Then download barnacles software, install and follow the instructions.

Its easy.

Paul - the error in your picture say's it's not getting the response back from the ECU that it's expecting.

If you get that far, it's correctly found the USB adaptor, but the string of 'ECU ID: 00-00-00-00-00-00' is telling you it hasn't initialised the ECU properly.

Likely fault is either that the ignition isn't on, or the engine is doing more than 2,000 rpm, or that the adaptor isn't attached to the power on its red lead.

For the record:

I have absolutely no objection to anyone packaging this as a disk or disk'n'adaptor kit. I don't care how much they charge for it - though no doubt people will vote with their wallets if they think you're taking the pee!

I have no intention of providing kits or disks; I'm sorry, but I have too much on. Also, you can expect changes at least in the near future as I get bug reports and fix them, or make improvements - new versions will be posted on my site and advertised here.

Please note the terms of the licence: LGPL. See www.gnu.org for the details, but basically, do what you want with it but you *must* include the source code if you redistribute, and if you make changes to the software (you are encouraged to do this) you *must* identify your changes and include the modified source code.

Neil

Just tried it and it won't recognise the serial port.
Have to have another play around with it and maybe check my drivers.
It worked fine on the airbag ECU though.
paul

If it worked on the airbag, you're probably telling it the wrong port number. Check in the device manager to see what port number has been given, make sure you're telling it that number.

Here's what you should see as it fires up (Windows 7 64-bit):

1) start the terminal through the 'run' option from start


2) type 'cmd' and return


3) which drops you into the terminal


4) change directory (and drive if required) to wherever you dropped the executable


5) now you need to find out the port number - so fire up the control panel and then the device manager


6) look in the 'ports' section to see what port it is - in this case, com4 - you need to remember the '4'


7) now back to the terminal - enter the program name and the port number and then return


8) for a couple of seconds you'll see this, if you got it right...


9) and then it will try and start talking - here I don't have the ECU attached, so the ECU ID is 00-00-00-00-00-00 and it will take several seconds before you see anything - that will be rubbish!

Tried it again Neil and still no luck.
It is still not communicating with the ECU.
I am pretty sure everything is right.
ignition on....12volts on lead....all plugged....port recognised.

ps....the pc has 3 gig of ram and is basically a gaming machine so it is fast enough.

I wonder if the speed of the machine is important. Timing is everthing, I could never get the code to initalise on my old pc but on a dual core 2 4 meg machine it worked fine.

I've just ordered the leads off eBay

Just read you need a good spec laptop (which this isn't)

Nah, it works fine on this and on my 4-year-old XP machine. The only timing critical bit is the 200ms delay and that should work on pretty much anything... the 16v is a bit more critical; it uses an odd comms baud rate.

Paul, are you sure you're not talking to the ABS ecu? Um, another thought - com3 is often attached to an internal modem; have you confirmed the com address?

That was the same com port I used for the airbag mate using the same lead and I used the same USB port.
It is defo the right ECU......the plug by the expansion tank.
Flea had to find it for me when he remapped my ECU.....it had "disappeared" ...lol.
I need to have another go when I get time,it is probably something silly and I do love a challenge.
Everything seems right but there's just no hand shaking going on for some reason.

paul

Update.
Just had another go and I can report that it works fine on Vista
Thanks Neil.
The battery voltage seems out though and I was not doing that speed....car was on the drive.
Paul

Battery voltage is disturbing.

I'll find my meter and double check it but if it was that voltage.....don't think I would have that much left working.
Think I will try it again.

Hmmm, that speed.....your NIP is in the post!

This is too easy!

Tried it again guys and it worked this time......I don't know where those figures came from
One with just ignition and the other with engine running.
Paul

A glance at the code will reveal that there's a single internal packet structure which is used for comms in both direction. When asking for data, the appropriate fields are filled by the requestor, and on a response from the ECU the info field is completed.

That field is never cleared, so if the ECU fails to respond, it will contain probable garbage (from the last call). That's translated as if it's real... anybody's guess what it translates to.

If you get something like that, or if it locks up in a comms glitch, I recommend using 'ctrl-c' to exit the program rather than 'q'; the official way may require several dozen time-outs and could take minutes before it responds, and I've had a couple of occasions where it's frozen with even the system manager unable to close the window.

btw - according to the docs, the throttle pedal position is returned with engine off, ignition on. I haven't yet found one that does. If you've got one, please let me know!

look like it works on all the modern OS's Neil
Paul

Is there to be a version of this available for the 16vt and would this work with that beautiful dial display software you created last year

Have to be fair though,it does look good,I think Charles Babbage could have added a few extras here ?
Paul

Swaynie, there's been a 16v/vt version forever, seems like - check the microwidget FAQ and in particular the update section: current versions run the same hardware as this 20v version.

Paul - For the Charles Babbage look, what you do is set this:

as your desktop, and set the transparency on the terminal at perhaps 50%.

Simples!

I think of it this way: Ole Charlie built a 'difference engine'; this is a 'makes a different *to* engine'.

Hiya Folks,

Just a quick one to say I'm all fired up after seeing today's Demo at the East Anglia meet My cables are on order, but there's a 10-25 day delivery estimate.

Just out of curiosity, how does your solution compare to this one I found tonight:

http://www.fiatecuscan.net/SupportedVehiclesList.aspx

I presume it woud have to use the same cable, and it's just a different front end. Is that right?

Ta,

Ian.

Well, the main difference is mine will actually talk to the ECU... the fiatecuscan will only talk to the ABS and the airbag, which mine won't.

Same connection hardware, different software.

The ecuscan uses the same cables but does the 20vt airbag and abs, not engine ecu.

Ahah. I feel a bit daft now, having re-read their website

Isn't it funny how obvious things are, when you read them a second time

just received both my ebay cables and hooked it up to my 20vt, it worked perfect first time. really easy to set up.

it only threw up one issue *camshaft variator open circuit*

anyone got any ideas on this??

excellent software for free, i dont think i would ever have know there was an issue with the variator if it wasnt for this software. top marks

Righty, my leads have arrived, I've installed the first of your links, the second one didn't do anything when I clicked on run, the box flashed up for a milisecond then went off.

What do I need to do now ?

The instructions are written for people who understand computers, I'm not one of those people unfortunately so be gentle with me.

Hell, I don't even know where it plugs into the car ?

Think I'm going to need help on this one.

what operating system you using for starters...is it Vista and if so........?
1...make sure you have the saved files you downloaded to your desktop
2.....click START....then type in.... cmd (In the bottom left white part that comes up after clicking "start")
2.....it will open a DOS type screen and then type in cd desktop
3.... then copy and paste startrek_bosch_v2 onto the small black DOS screen.
.....the last number of startrek_bosch_v2 4 in this case 4 is the port number.

If you don't have too much running on your PC...I would just change the last number (that is the port number..... startrek_bosch_v2 4 ) a few times..1 then 2 then 3 and so on.
You should find it by time you get to 5 or 6 and when the port number is correct....it will connect.
paul

The variator is on the drivers side, top, back of the engine. Make sure the plug is connected it (the plug) may just need a clean with some carb cleaner, my maf (Power plug) did a few months back.

Okay, Jimbo - one step at a time:

1) you need to download the code from my site (link here: http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk/coupe/startrek/startrek_bosch_v2.zip ) and save that file somewhere convenient.

2) you need to unzip that file - just click on it in Windows (might be double click - can't remember) and it will open an explorer window, and somewhere on there will be an option to extract the files. You need the one called startrek_bosch_v2.exe but there's no harm in extracting both.

3) you need to obtain and install the drivers for the USB adaptor - the driver is here: http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP.htm and the instructions are here: http://www.ftdichip.com/Documents/InstallGuides.htm - follow the instructions and you'll be fine. Either version 2.6.00 or 2.6.02 will be fine.

Once you've got them, you can follow the screen-shots I posted up some posts ago.

Neil

Neil,

Thanks for the reply. I recieved a disc with the two leads that I'm guessing has the same drivers as those listed in your link, I popped the disc in and clicked on the two links it came up with, this then installed something as my virus detector asked me if "I was sure".
There wasn't an "I'm not sure what's going on" option so I just selected yes.

I really need to start swatting up on computers, I've just rebuilt a nose leg on our plane out in Turkey after we found the plane in a puddle of oil looking sorry for itself. I will take on any mechanical challenge but computers, they scare the bjesus out of me.

Ok, Jim, you've done stage 3 but you still need to do steps one and two.

You can test stage 3 worked by plugging in the adaptor and checking that it appears as a port in device manager (steps 5 and 6 in my screen grabs above).

You've got both parts of the cable, yeah? The USB bit and the adaptor to 3-pin?

Sure have, got them both from the same guy in Malaysia from the wonder of eBay.

I'll check it works when I plug it right now.

Ok, the cable is recognised but I'm struggling to understand this line of text in your instructions;
"change directory (and drive if required) to wherever you dropped the executable"

It means find the star Treck software

with command prompt if you put the software in to the c drive at the top ie c:
in the command window (black with white text.
just type cd.. till the path is c:\>
ie not c:\windows\something\>

as in put the software in to c: then open command prompt (start--> run>> cmd --> OK

Ok Jef, thanks for your help but I'm still not understanding you ?

So I have Neils download saved on the desktop, how do I do that ?

when you get the black DOS type screen up after you have typed....cmd ....
type in cd desktop (if that is where you have unzipped Barnacle's files)
Then press....enter..
on the next line that comes up copy and paste startrek_bosch_v2 4 and then press enter

If it don't connect....just try changing the port number (the last number here... startrek_bosch_v2 4 ...the 4 )
Then go through the same procedure.
Bet you it finds the right port by time you get to 5
ps....you can use winzip or winrar to unzip the files

Last time I try and help anyone

Ok, but that does exactly the same as if I just double click the link on the desktop ?

My OBD to 3 pin adaptor has a pair of croc clips as well- red & black.
Do they need to go on to the battery?

just connect the positive one (+ red)...there is no need to connect the negative (- black)
I just lashed one cable from the battery to the other side of engine bay and used that to go to the croc clip.

How far have you got Jim ?
Have you extracted the 2 files to your desktop (notice I did not say "unzipped" )
Paul
You should be seeing something like this....it is not connected so not recognising anything at the moment though...your one should though

Yep, it's all unzipped, I did that originally and then saved it to the desktop for easy access.

Ah, I give in for now, flying early in the morning and I've still to do my prep tonight and try and get some sleep. I'll have another bash at it when I've more than 24hrs at home

ok......
are you getting something like this screen up ?
My files have been deleted BTW.
That was close..

That's great. I like the way it gives a continuous readout.
My temp gauge is 13 degrees too cold.
Thermostat seemed to open at around 90.
Lambda jumped around all over the place.
Cold

Warmer


Hot


Do the figures look reasonable?

here is mine at 68

Jimbo, PM me for a phone number. I'll talk you through it.

Lambda should jump about that means the ecu and lambda sensor are working. should go rich on boost and lean on coasting.

Here is a better comparison
Paul

Thanks Paul,
Mine was dropping into the yellow for idle speed.
It looks like you had a warmer day.

I was thinking about replacing the thermostat so the £20 on adaptors saved me £40+ and I can use them on the Alfa.

It would be good to try it on the road.

Peter

Peter, which alfa? I reckon this code will also work with 145/146 1.4 to 2.0, 155 1.6 to 2.0, and GTV/Spider.

Unless you've something more recent, in which case it'll need the OBD software.

I have some software called "Examiner". I haven't run it up yet but there are some jobs needed like resetting the airbag light.

Has the OBD level gone up on the later ones? Mine is a 2004 156 TS.

The only reason my idle is a tad higher is that is the way flea maps them....higher idle speed.
No big deal though.
It was a very warm day too mate
Paul

Skinflint, everything after 2001 is OBDII by regulation. Some stuff before then is also OBDII, but not standardised.

Thanks for that. I'm just trying to install it now to see what happens.

After a little prodding from Johna, I can now announce that the latest version of startrek_bosch_v2 works quite cheerfully in Linux.

It needs to run in the wine emulator, and you'll need to make a virtual link to connect the USB port:

In the ~/.wine/dosservices directory, do

(assuming your adaptor gets mapped to USB0 - you can check that by looking at the last few lines of dmesg, which will be something like:



By setting it up to com1, you don't need to tell startrek what port to use.

Simples!

(Barnacle takes no responsibility if the above advice made no sense to you. If you have a bad day, or you melt your engine, or your dog bites you, it's not my fault. Shares may go down as well as up. Your house may be at risk if you fail to keep up payments on any loan secured upon it.)

Hi Barnacle,

I appreciate this wouldn't be very accurate but there's a thread here with an equation that allows you to calculate boost in PSI from MAF and RPM.

P = 942(MFR/RPM) - 14.7 

The thread is here...
Audiworld

I'm wondering if it might be a useful add on to Star Trek as I'd love to know what mine boosts to without having to add a gauge.

A peak hold would be nice too.

I'm not sure about his numbers. (It's certainly not the same multiplier, since the MAF is in g/s on the Audi and cubic metres per hour in the coupe.)

His maf sensor returns a mass; the fiat value gives a volume which is affected by temperature to give mass. Not something I'm planning, though.

Thanks for looking into it anyway.

I'm just looking into producing a Delphi Application that reads all the ODBCII codes and displays them in a graphical stylee...
Since Delphi is compiled, the response times should be really fast.
I'm aiming for straight display first of all, in time I should be able to do data logging for use with a laptop on the passenger seat, as in the F1 Scene....

Except that the coupé isn't OBDCII-compliant

As long as I can get the data in on USB and know the codes I can make it work for anything.

I'm just starting to read up on it.

Ah, okay, just wanted to make sure you knew that the coupé uses a pre-OBDC protocol, that's all

I've just been reading the StarTrek source code, the fact that it's well commented makes my work easier, I'll get on it this week, bit quiet at work...

Oh, and I'll have to buy a Coop to test it on, another excuse....

Oh and some cables, still, I'll be able to work out the data structures and interface this week...
Should have a screenshot by Friday.

From above:



I should be able to add things like this too, easypeasy when I know the correct formula.

First attempt at my project.

The application opens in a 800X600 window, I am going to add menu options to change to a 1024X768 screen and a normal windows background (your normal theme choice).
I'm working on the data structures right now.
Any comments please?

There's not a lot of point graphing the lambda; the cycle time of the response from the ECU is too slow to avoid aliasing the values.

I think you need to be a bit smaller than 600 high - otherwise, people with netbooks complain that they can't fit it all on screen, with the start bar below.

Glad the source is useful - please note the LGPL licence requirements and publish your source once you start distributing!

Done and Done...

You can see the size menu dropped down.

thanks Barnacle, I can see I'm going be getting plenty of input from you, it's appreciated.

Since I don't have a Coop just yet, maybe I can send you the prototype for testing?

That looks amasing.......would look rather cool as a permanent display near the dash.
Pity it can't be intergrated into a small display and not have to depend on a laptop......mine has a 17" screen so it's a bit chunky to bolt to the dash....lol

edit....for reasons beyond my control.

I suppose you could use a notebook as the brains and then run a small remote LCD screen off the notebook ?
May be a bit of a waste though and there has to be a better alternative I would have thought.
Paul

interesting

I've resized it to run on a 800X600 netbook screen, they're getting to be cheap enough nowadays.

Aaaaaah man, i feel like i'm really missing out with my 20V VIS!

*sulk*

I'll second that...can the VIS be covered???pleeaassee!

JJ, if you can read Italian, and write code, and make sense of the docs, I've got them. You're wlecome. But they make no great amount of sense to me... though I did others from Italian.

Surfer, happy to test but I'm usually a linux user - ideally it needs to compile to a single .exe (as startrek does) statically linked with no DLLs or runtimes required.

Hint hint, use the comms and status code from startrek_bosch_v2. It's why I broke it out - it's effectively standalone, though I haven't finished breaking out the initialisation and the errorgrab code yet.

Hint hint 2 - which 155 ecu do you have? The same Bosch 2.10.4 was used on many... in which case it'll work the same for you.

Oh, and your air will go a lot hotter even on an NA - I've seen sixty plus.

What does the slider do?

I too am a Linux used, even though most of the systems I support are Microshaft-based.

As I'm programming it in Delphi(Pascal) I won't be using any DLLs and the code compiles into one standalone executable.

I've written several appplications using serial comms for work, I'll be providing my own comms interface for this application.

Let me have copies of the Italian docs for the VIS, can't do any harm for me to have a look... is the connector the same?

The scale of all the components can be changed easily under Delphi, that's why I use it.

The slider has no use yet... unless of course the Bosch allows programming of the revs, then it could be used to rev the engine...
I'mn going to use it to test the operation of the controls.

I've got a 2litre TS 8v Alfa, but not for much longer.

I'll finds out if there's any interest on the Alfa forums, I'm a member of Alfa155.org

Ok, I popped a comment on alfaowners. pm me an email, so I can send you the docs.

My cable arrived today, and I have a 97 Phase I Spider, so will let you know if it works

Neil,

Happy to have ago at translating them...get a little stuck on code...ok programming in DBase4 back in the 80's...get's a bit complicated after that!

JJ

Works on a 1997 Phase 1 2.0 TS Alfa Spider

Thanks, CN! Altered the FAQ to include that.

The only odd thing I see is I get a message after a few seconds, on both cars:

\Error in RAM Address Frame txors

It still seems to generate numbers though, so I ignored it.

On the Coupe, I get the same '(64) Knock Sensor 1 Signal Not Plausible' and '(64) Knock Sensor 2 Signal Not Plausible' that you showed me at the East Anglia meet. Also, I get a yellow: '(58) Lambda Sensor Open Circuit'.

All clean on the Spider Woohoo.

The error message is a diagnostic; it's saying that the ECU didn't respond properly to something (or I got the sequence wrong somewhere). If the tumbler \|/- keeps spinning, it should pick it up again next time round the loop.

Sounds like you've still got the knock sensor problem. The lambda sensor says it's got better, it happened 64-58 starts ago. You can press the 'd' key to make them go away if you have the latest version.

Ahah. I think I'm starting to understand About 6 starts ago, it did have a bit of a wobble.

Just one more question: Should I connect up the negative diagnostic clip to the car chassis somewhere? I left it unconnected and it seemed to work.

No need for the negative one - it picks that up through the comms connector.

I recieved my cables last week but i just cannot get it to connect.

I have checked the COM port number, made sure ignition is on, got power lead connected, all drivers installed but it still wont connect.

I thought it might have been an issue with the car, but i checked the diagnostics lead with a Snapon code reader and that worked fine.

I must be doing something wrong. Anyone got any ideas?

Do you get an error from the software? Might be best to post a screenshot so we can see what's happening. Also, do you definitely have it plugged into the right port on the car, the cables fit quite a few sockets.

Gareth

Yeah definitly the right socket - as the snap-on code reader talked to it.

I am getting a message that says "Error in Ram Address"

Here is screen shot;

wrong port selected ?
What port did you select.....try going up or down one or two ?

No, it's talking to the usb-serial adaptor, but the 00-00-00-00-00-00 is saying there's no response from the ECU. Is the red lead from the adaptor attached to the battery positive?

Or could be a faulty adaptor.

Yeah the red lead is clipped straight onto the battery terminal.

I definitly have the correct port too.

Must be a dodgy chinese lead.

It'll go with the dodgy one I discovered at AutoItalia last week, then!

Well, my ODBCII lead has arrived, I've bought a 20VT, so now I can crack on when the Fiat adapter arrives.

That looks good

Fiat style dials? You're welcome to the C++ code for these, Surfer.

I'm fine with the Delphi components right now.

I have already programmed them with extra functionality, water temp dial's background will turn red when it goes over limit.

I've set the menu to allow two different sizes, 800X500 for netbook displays, 1024X768 for normal laptops.

Also the colour scheme of the window can be either black or pick up your theme settings.

I've sorted the data structures, comms routines and main program loop,I just need a car and that other lead to start checking it.

Your suggestions are welcome.

Amazing, the adapter lead just dropped on the doormat.

The delivery time from China has really improved in the last year.

Depending on how busy I am at work on Thursday, there is a possibility I may be able to demo the program at the Ace on Thursday night.

Surfer69 will you be making your app available once completed? I could give you a page on the club website?

Looking forward to seeing it at the ACE!

What's this all about then

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k20/Webbo/random%20car/Image1-1.jpg

Ah, if only the documents had explained what that one meant. But it happened a dozen or more starts ago, so I shouldn't worry...

Think that is when the ECU adjusts to a new EBV or adapts to boost map changes.

Cheers, I'll delete it and forget all about it

PLEASE NOTE

I'm currently moving my ISP to a new provider. At present the old site is down and the new site is not yet up; whether you can see these files depends rather on how up to date your DNS server is...

Hopefully should be all working in a day or so.

Thanks,

Neil

I think it's all up and working again. Please let me know if you try and grab something and it doesn't work.

fo'ing car is playing up. can someone send the software to me at xxx. The link for the software isn't working.

cheers

rob.

This link worked for me. http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk/coupe/startrek/startrek409.zip

I have sent it to you anyway.

Is anyone any closer to the pretty GUI version?

Surfer69 - I really like the look of what you're working on, and I have an Acer Aspire One which will be perfect for it.

If you've tried the link before, the original version may be cached with nothing behind it. Refresh the page and try again - it's working for me.

Nope I stil get

Not Found

The requested URL /coupe/startrek/startrek_bosch_M2_10_4.zip was not found on this server.

<scratches head>

Nope, something's eaten it. Can't even find the original zip file on my system.

I've just stuck up the raw .exe here: http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk/coupe/startrek/startrek_bosch_M2_10_4.exe

I'll sort out the source code soon.

Brilliant, just used it to diagnose a dodgy throttle position sensor.

It works !

Just got the OBD2 to 3 pin adapter cable and tried it out on my 20v N/A. Startrek works great. Thanks Neil.

Just one question.
It showed error 41 - Water temperature sensor implausible - Air temp showed 22 and water temp 53 degrees at the time. Is the error likely to be a bad sensor, a stuck thermostat or is it normal to get an error like this now and again?

Interesting to know if this is error is common.

BTW the engine had only been running for a few minutes - hence 55 deg. Also no error light on although during the winter it came on for a few minutes and then went off again. That was usually when re-starting when engine was warmed up.

Thanks.

It's not that it was implausible *then* but that it had been implausible some time in the past. If an error is current, the message will be in read and the (xx) number will be 64 or greater.

The error will have been in yellow to indicate that it's history; the (41) tells you that the error occurred 64-41 starts ago. Nothing to worry about unless it makes a habit of it.

I've still not got this up and running yet, I just havent had the time to do it.

Thanks for the response about how to interpret the error message.

Nice bit of coding work, I'm sure its much appreciated by all.

so, who's working on a VIS version then?

(ps hey Neil, got me a new toy now :D)

Still not a coupe, though, from your signature?

Re the VIS - you're on your own. I've got the docs, but that's as far as I'm going... If it's post 2001, OBDII ought to work.

Nah, we needed something "practical", with a proper boot and fold down seats - which ruled out the Punto due to the roll cage Plus, well, if I were going coupe it would have to be a 20vt and I don't fancy taking the engine out every couple years to do the cam belt

...back on topic, mine's a 2000 with - what I believe to be - a Bosch ME3.1 Supposedly supported by FiatECUScan on the 156 V6, not had a chance to try yet on the Bravo yet.

See, you've been listening to them know-alls over on the Fiat Forum again, haven't you? Should have asked here, we'd have set you straight.

Just tried to get this working, but I get an error.

"Unable to open serial port; quiting..."

What gives?


*EDIT* Working now, instead of typing "Startrek Com5" I just typed "Startrek 5".

(I have renamed the program to "Startrek" to simplify things.)

Take the engine out?!? Even with my technical knowledge I can't help but who told you that

That's the official Fiat line

Is there any logging functionality built into the 20V command line interface? I tried redirecting the output to a file on the command line, but of course that doesn't work as the coloured output won't be written via stdout.

Presuming it doesn't exist I'd be quite happy to add this if I could find the source, but can only find the 16v version.

No, there's no logging. Shouldn't be difficult, with the source. Which ought to be on my site but appears to have got nibbled away by a passing okapi when I shifted hosts recently.

I'll get the source up soon.

Just FYI, the 16v console application has a dead link on your website, it points to "http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk/coupe/startrek/startrek_console.zip" but the actual file has the extension in upper case i.e. "startrek_console.ZIP".

Only found out through a lucky guess, as I've had this several times uploading pictures to my own webspace.

Yep, I need to tidy the whole area, thanks.

I moved from a brain dead windows server to a proper unix box, but transferred the data from a windows partition while in Linux... great potential for missing permissions and suchlike there.

hehe, sorry guys, that's the official line on mine too but there's enough room to shift the engine over a bit to get access - looking at the coupe engine bay, I didn't think there was and I'd not seen a guide for it so assumed it really was engine out - I'd seen it mentioned in a few places too

When a lot of garages are quoting around £300-350 for a cambelt change, that's a clear indication that it's no longer an engine out jobbie.

On the windows version of StarTrek, I've just bought myself a Samsung NC10 to carry on with development, it's got a decent battery life so I can decode the application while it's connected to the car, my Alienware laptop used to die after 30mins.

So I'll be carrying on with the work this week.

Right, now I've read through this thread and whilst some of it makes sense, a lot of it doesn't

I think I've ordered the right cables for this, but in the meantime, while I'm waiting for them to arrive, does anyone want to do a simple step by step guide on what to do, for simple people like me?

<cough>

Did we look in the FAQ, T?

http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1022168#Post1022168

Hey surfer, looking forward to that. If battery life remains an issue check out eBay, for a charger that you plug into your cigarette lighter.

No, I hadn't, sorry

I'll have a read through that properly when I get the cables

Cheers Neil

Problem is solved with the netbook, battery life is 10hours!

It's just it's difficult to site my laptop comfortably enough to do the debugging with the car running.

I've now upgraded my netbook to a 500Gig Drive and 2 Gigs RAM, so it does pretty all that my heavy, hot Alienware does (except play Warcraft, but I'm getting bored with that now anyway).

Once the program's completed, it'll be easy to use, just one excutable to put anywhere you want, no dll's involved.

I keep my development version in 'My Documents.
The program should end up about 2 Mbytes when it's finished, so not a big demand on your profile resources.

You will still have to setup the drivers for the cable, and its COM port, both for windows and my application(just a choiced from a drop-down list)

cant wait to see it

You'll all have to bear with me, I've got more serious matters on my mind at the moment.

I have been working on my bike today, MoT time, but I get tired quickly.

Fist of all.. big thank you Barnacle!

This works very well & easy to set up too.

Just tried it for the first time with engine ticking over.

Battery a bit high at 14.1V

+ these 2 errors

(65) Timing variator open circuit (in red!)
(58) Air flow meter s/c to 12v (in yellow)

Now i'm worried! ... should i be?
I read somewhere about timing variator being off when idling, but presume this isn't the problem.

I'm currently having some issues with my coup, which is a little high on the tuning side!

Any help would be much appreciated!

The one in red is a current error; the yellow one occurred a couple of days ago, at a guess - six starts ago.

I'd check the connector on the variator and make sure it's on properly - it's the one in the middle of the injectors, I think. And you could get a meter onto the contacts of the variator and make sure there's some impedance there.

Cheers matey will do that.

I suffering from low pressure & oily intercooler atm... wondering whether this could be part of the picture.

Thanks again for devving this mate... drove home with it plugged in last night with me lady monitoring all the way.

Noticed that temp is constantly about 10 degrees higher on ECU than on temp gauge. Time for a new stat too possibly?!

Would not have thought that the oil and variator would be related - oily intercooler can only have come from the turbo, I think.

The temperature reads higher on almost all coupes on the ECU than the gauge; they're different sensors and on some models in different places. Nothing to worry about there.

Thanks for that matey. I have posted a new thread on my problems in the right area now. Sorry for clog up this thread

im testing the software startrek409 on fiat tempra, here in brazil. the ecu is marelli p8. it works great in windows, but i cant make work on ubuntu (linuxice). the error message is "im sorry - i cant find any serial or usb ports. please attach one and restart the program.". i did everything: virtual link on dosservices directory, start the startrekconsole, and iam sure that my serial usb adapter is on ttyUSB0.
PLEASE, i need some help...

thanks a lot

I haven't used linuxice, but on ubuntu 10.04 this works:



and that looks like



and then it just works. It defaults to com1 so you don't need to specify the port.

Hi
Terrific job making Star Trek for 20v/vt Barnacle.
Have a few questions about the values shown.
1) what should Throttle degrees be at WOT ?
Mine shows about 91 degrees I would have expected 100. (have checked that throttle cant open more when speeder is fully pressed.
2) What is max allowed air temp. before ECU want to lower turbo boost ?
3) Is the actual Knock sensor data available in the data array your program grab from the ECU ?
(seems like you only use position 0->8 + 16->21)

1) Throttle is a bit variable; it uses a differential from the start to work out where it is, so that's fine.
2) Not a clue.
3) No. You can't see the data directly on the 20 ECU, just the error relating to it if present. The sampling would be way too slow to get anything useful - though I suspect the design detects the envelope of the knock in hardware and compares timing to calculate the cylinder to pull back. You can't sample audio frequencies at one Hz.

Hiya, I just got my leads to test this out but I'm having problems. Its connecting to the ECU but failing to read the values.

Do I need to connect the red/black crocodile clips to something? The battery? Because they are too short to connect to the battery. Do I need to extend them?

Cheers,

-wolfman

Red lead needs to go on the positive battery terminal, black doesn't need to be connected. My leads didn't need extending but they are not all the same so I guess yours might.

Gareth

Managed to get Startrek working properly today, great peice of kit!



Unfortunately I don't understand some of it. From what I can tell my readings are all within certain peramiters (only green and yellow indicators... no red), but what worried me were the yellow bits at the bottom about the crank and cam sensors, do the numbers next to these indicate the number of times the car has been started since the error?

I've not had any problems with my coop... starting-wise, does this mean that either (or both) of these sensors are on their way out? (Gulp!).

Cheers
Steve

That's the internal error count. It starts at 64 when the error occurs, and is incremented every time the error recurs (every six minutes if it's a continuing error). It's also decremented every time the engine is started and the fault is not present - so yours occurred 8 and 30 starts ago.

You need to be careful with cam and crank sensor errors; it notes the absence of one by getting pulses from the other when it doesn't expect them - i.e. the sequence gets out of order - and so it can sometimes get a bit confused about which is actually faulty.

In this case, I'd check again in a few days and make sure the numbers are getting smaller...

Neil so if I understand the above, if you have an error that was recorded 5 times in a row the software will report the error in red and the number 69 next to it. Then if the ECU has two successful readings with no error it will report the error in yellow with the number 67 after it?

Gareth

Thanks barnacle, I'll check again at the weekend and see if the numbers are lower

With regards your edit there, can you erase errors with the Startrek software, or do I need to get the car to a specialist to do this?

Much appreciated
Steve

I think you can press the D key to clear the errors, or you could just keep and eye on the numbers and make sure they are going down each time you check it.

Gareth

Steve - Looks like I've linked on the page to an earlier version. It *should* say 'hit D to delete errors' but doesn't... however, hitting D should clear the errors on the version you have. Note that you may not see a change for up to twenty seconds.

I'll sort out the link when I get a moment.

Gareth - the documents are not clear. I believe that the error count is set to 63 once the fault clears and then decrements with each successive starts. Faults appear red if the count is 64 or greater - i.e. current - or yellow if they're old, for information.

Thanks Neil, that makes sense, otherwise it would be hard to differentiate between a fault that had occurred a number of times but was now not occurring, and one that was still occurring.

Thanks for this software Neil
I was wondering if you are losing the communication with the ECU while driving.
For me, it happens sometimes. I was using the driver from the chinese CD. I update them with the lastest driver but I did not try again.
Is it using a lot PC processor?

It's not using much processor power, but the timing is critical to the ECU and unfortunately by the time windows has been through its multiple access layers to the USB port, it can't always maintain it.

I didn't include a restart on the software since the ECU will not connect if the revs are above 2000 (i.e. most of the time if you're driving!) - I have no idea why Bosch designed it that way, but sadly we're stuck with it.

OK, so it is normal Thanks

hi folks, just a quickie regarding engine and startrek reading.

yesterday on my way to work, i was cruising at 60 mph and all of a sudden there was a really quick kill in engine power (no more than 1 second), it felt like a misfire but more noticable, id say "similar" to quickly switching the ignition on and off.
its only happend twice at random in the past 2 days.

has it anything to do with tonights STARTREK report (17) lambda interegator FR lower limit ???????

Nah. That's an old report; it's probably a month since that happened, from the count.

I'd be looking for electrical faults from your description.

With WOT Mass Airflow shows 408 m3/h from around 2700rpm to max rpm, is this a max value that can be shown or can it be different from car to car (20vt car)?

That's the maximum the sensor can read, plus or minus one or two. On WOT the ECU is running the map based on revs, I think; the flow is assumed. It's certainly in open loop at that point.

The Airmass meter from the 20VT is a HFM2-6.4 Type. So it should measure up to 640 kg/h.
But don't know how this is related to the output from startrek

The ECU delivers cubic metres per hour. Mass of air at sea level is around 1.3kg/m^3. 408*1.3 = 530kg/m. Curious.

Does the Startrek software work on vista ?

I assume that XP and Windows 7 are known to work ok.

I've not tested it personally, but there are reports upthread that it works on Vista.

Hi everybody,

let me briefly introduce myself. I am a staff member of the Italian Club Fiat Coupé Passion. I think this forum is simply amazing and useful. I read it frequently and I had a great help from a member.
I have written a little software, very similar to barnacle's startrek, for the Passion Club members (you can see a couple of screenshots here, sorry but it is only in italian). I will soon release a version also for 16V, 16VT and 1.8-16V.

Coming back in topic, I have noticed this behaviour (for the MAF value) too.
It sounded me strange and so I have monitored the voltage of the MAF. The voltage signal keeps growing till max power rpm (I could see 4,75V).
So, it seems that only air volume flow information is ceiling there.

But there is another question: at max power, the engine should "eat" more than 640kg/h....I don't know how the ECU deals with this...any idea ?

PiZ

Piz: your links don't work because they require a username and password and our image pop system is designed to display direct links to the image only, sorry.

I did try fixing the issue but found out I needed to be registered on your forum to find the images

Sorry ! I'll try to fix that....

Ok, it should work now

Stan....do you see the screenshots now ?
It should be a free hosting service....

Yes, we can see them now, thanks.

I checked the data sheet and the characteristic curve (number 3 is the coupe one ) shows more than 640kg/h at 4.75V. But don't know how accurate this is.

HFM-2 Bosch

Ciao PiZ

Software looks great I will have to give it a try when its done! I would also be happy to publish a link to it on our club website - www.fiatcoupeclub.org - if you are interested send me a PM

Grazie,

Mario

Yes, you're right...it was a "printing error"
I read 4.57V not 4.75V...so about 700kg/h on that curve. (BTW, our MAF has a different code...it ends with .514)

Anyway, even if the value could be correct, it's out of standard specs...do yo think it was intentional from Fiat working out of bounds ?

PiZ

Ciao Mario,

I'll be very glad to send you a copy of the sw...I think that language won't be a problem for you !
Regarding the link, I don't know if I will be able to give any support or regular updates to the software, as it is free and I work on it in my spare time (and having a young daughter...you know... )
This is the reason why I decided to give it only to Fiat Coupé Passion Club members.

Obviously, thinking that my sw is running also in UK would be a honour !

PiZ

Yes, the coupe one ends with number 514, but it doesn't matter. The sensor element is always the same. It's only the housing which makes the difference. The 519 has the same housing

Ok, thanks !

In fact, I was superimposing the data logged with my software on Bosch curve n. 3 and they match quite well

No answer ?
Do you think that injection is mapped and ECU works in open loop at over 640kg/h ?

ECU works open loop at WOT. How much below that point it switches I don't know...

Don't forget peak air consumption is not at peak revs. Whether that's significant or not, I don't know.

Piz, I can't see your software - I think your screenshots went away! But at least someone else is working on this. There are guys dying to get testing for the 1.8 engine (Barchetta, 1.8 16v coupe) which uses the Hitachi controller, and I've got no chance to do one. If I can offer any advice please ask.

Neil

Neil, didn't think the 1.8 Coupe had the hitachi controller. As far as I know, only the Barchetta and the Punto HGT have the Hitachi (but even then the configuration for the HGT is different).

Hmmm... had a search through my documentation. Conflicting info. Some say Hitachi MFI-001, others say Bosch M2.10.4.

Should have dismantled the 1.8 SE I once got from Fiat.

My docs say Barchetta, Bravo/a, Delta, Tipo, Dedra, and Coupe - all 1.8 16v engines in either 115 or 132 bhp. There are several versions for some vehicles.

That's dated 1996. The Bosch unit is certainly in the middle four of those, but I've nothing linking it to the Barchetta or the Coupe (except 2.0).

Coupe had 139 bhp?

That's what it says.

Yes, 1.8 16V have Hitachi controllers.
Post '98 models have an Hitachi MFI-104, while oldest ones have Hitachi MFI-018. They both have 132CV as far as I know...

The two ecus have different comunication protocol. I am now working on post '98 MFI and it is quite tricky to break in, even if it should be a quasi-standard KWP2000 protocol.

There is also a third version of Hitachi ECU for Euro3 models, but I think it was installed only on few final edition 1.8s...

Thanks Neil, I'll ask your help if I can't work it out...
For the screenshots: I will upload them again tomorrow

PiZ

FIAP...Fix It Again PiZ

Now those screenshots should pop up ! I've changed another server...hope it's the last one !

PiZ

Interesting... how do you deduce the pressure? An external sensor, or calculate it on the fly from load?

It's a rough estimation based on load.
I put it there for users that haven't a boost gauge...
The istantaneous power calculation is based on speed derivative, weight and coast-down curve....and it works quite well. It can be fine tuned to the specific car.
Also gear estimation, needed to compute power, works flawlessly...

PiZ

PiZ, do you have the software available somewhere?

Hi Kayjey,

I have seen your post only today !

I don't distribute the software outside the Club for many reasons. But, if you want a copy to try it, send me a PM....

Guess what I heard today - it seems that if you have two copies of Startrek 16vt running, you can talk to a Ferrari F40...

Does it talk back though?

So I am led to believe. Seems it uses the same ECU, one for each bank of the V8.

Is it April the 1st ?

Nope... http://rp-lab.com/iaw_monitor.shtml

So if I buy two 16vt and weld them together I can have a cheap F40 !!

hi im urgently in need of reading codes as my car wont start after a rebuild and is showing the injector light on the dash, but i cant seem to get startrek to work for me

im having trouble getting the ftdi drivers to load for the lead i bought? xp doesnt recognise them as the correct ones for the lead, so ive opened the plug and the chip is marked ftdi ft232bl 729-1. im finding footnotes on the ftdi site about this and it says if the vid and pid dont match it wont recognise it, so i used usbview like it said and my lead seems to be vid 0x0403 and pid 0xFAD8. it says the driver files can be modified and it will work but i have no idea how to do this? any help would be much appreciated, even if it means pointing me in the direction of another kkl lead on ebay that will definately work perhaps? thanks in advance

Sadly I've never had this issue - were there any drivers that came with the lead? There's sometimes a tiny disc in there, and I'd expect that to work. I've no idea how you'd modify the driver files...

If that fails, Sugerbear on here has lead kits for sale, I believe.

Worst case - but probably a bit far for most people - is to download a convenient linux and run it under wine. It's a little fiddly to set up but there are instructions in the FAQ section on the microwidget, IIRC.

thanks, no drivers with the lead and the seller hasnt replied when i asked, so think ill have a quick look at the linux option first

pm me your email address and I will send you the drivers I have for my ones. It might just work.

If not I will have some more leads available this week if you want a set add your name to the group buy.

Cheers

Rob.

It may be the easiest way to just by another KKL lead from another seller.

Or you can buy them from me knowing they work and including all the software for the 16v , 16vt , 20v and 20vt

If I short the K L connector on the micro-widget, would it work with 20vt star trek software on a 20vt?

Yes. Though I haven't tried it, it should. There are a couple of points on the circuit board where you can stick a link.

I tried this out today. Great code Neil and Sugarbear's package worked well.

My results are below.



Interestingly I could not get the throttle opening above 89 degrees. I understand that the butterfly valve only actually opens to 82 degrees but that widgets can overread?

My only concern is whether my throttle is opening fully or not. What should startrek be showing on a properly working normal throttle?

89 degrees is fine. It's differential, not absolute.

To be honest, you won't even notice a degree or probably even ten at the top end.

Thanks neil.

Is there any way to "graph" the outputs from Startrek - i.e. something that monitors the inputs whilst driving and is capable of then importing those values into a table so that the results can be seen over a period of time?

Steve

Not for the 20v version, I'm afraid.

Of course, the source is open and it wouldn't be difficult to implement... be my guest!

It's beyond my IT ability I'm afraid otherwise I would do it.

Such is life. Good bit of software for the money. Would be particularly useful if ever the car would not start etc.

I'm sure you could just take the outputs (which are displayed to screen), into a text file, formatted for excel or similar.

The only issue I thought was the speed at which main loop is iterating at, did you say Neil somewhere that the speed is important to avoid the comms being dropped?

I can't remember whether that was the error codes (as off the top of my head, you only go into that section of code once for every 10 iterations of interrogating the sensors) or would be ok to write to a text file within the main (Sensors only, Battery Voltage etc) loop?

The main loop gathers all the data in one chunk, then decodes it and writes it to the screen. I'd probably open a text file (call it *.csv to simplify displaying it in excel) and just repeat the screen write - which takes a short string - to the file, with commas between values and a carriage return at the end of the line.

A modern computer won't have a problem keeping up with the ECU.

Does anybody know if Flash can take inputs / values from COM port or something?

It would need to be able to set the port parameters, too, and handle the input and output on a byte-by-byte basis.

FYI regarding logging data. When getting a remote "live mapping" this summer I needed to provide Startrek data, so I took an old briefcase and strapped the pc and a video camera on it. Then the video camera recorded the pc screen with the startrek output.
Finally I send the recording as an avi file to Flea.
This way I could keep my eyes on the road and had the recording for later analyses.

That's one way, I guess! Googling 'record pc screen' returns loads of hits; I'm sure some of them must work - that might be easier.

Haha McFall that's one way of doing it I suppose...

Alternatively, have a look here

And choose from many free programs which will record your PC/Laptop screen. Much easier..

Is it possible to get this style of display of dials output from the widget on a 20VT or is it an additional something that needs downloaded from somewhere (if it's available)?

It's some experimental code I wrote for a future version of startrek, but I never finished it. It's designed to take a huge number of Fiat group ECUs of Coupe vintage, but was largely experimental. The large number of graphics calls made it a little slow on the laptop I used at the time; I haven't tried it recently.

It wouldn't be too much effort for some (other) programmer to graft the styles onto the original startrek, but it's not something I have time for at the moment - too many other things on!

Flash didn't have native COM port access last time I checked, but you can compile with zinc (and use the zinc libraries) to add COM port access to flash.

I've used it before to talk to a modified barnacle design (cheers Neil) and it worked fine.

just found this on the forum.. can anybody tell me were i can get a cable and software

http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk/coupe/startrek/startrek.html

Sugerbear may have cables available.

Ok guys, got my laptop back and i'm dying to work out how to download the barnacle star trek software from his website...

Anyone who has previously done this, could you explain in A B C to me please... Thanks muchos

Roger

http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk/coupe/startrek/startrek.html

why do i have to have a macbook

Because for everything else it makes sense

lol.... very true. but it seems a lot of work to set up boot camp or parallels just to use star trek. however i'd save a fortune in diagnostics bills!!

what do i actually need to run startrek on my mac? ie cable wise? i can do all the bootcamp stuff myself...

pleaseeee help.... download instructions for novice lol


i have a 20vt
windows XP software
and no idea what i'm doing


... i may need to stick with my own trusty mechanic diagnostic skills if all else fails aha

thanks guys.

I haven't had any experience with the mac, but it seems that Wine is available for it: http://davidbaumgold.com/tutorials/wine-mac/

You're on your own there; but I run startrek under linux/Wine with the USB port mapped to com1, with no issues. I believe you can probably do the same on the mac; if that's the case perhaps you'd be kind enough to do a how-to on the subject so others can benefit. There are other mac users on here who may be able to advise.

If you do it on the mac you almost certainly won't need to install the FTDI drivers; they're probably native to the mac already.

Razor, you need to download the software from my site - http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk/coupe/startrek/startrek.html - and read the page! Everything you need should be on there, but don't forget you'll need to install the drivers for the USB adaptor. I've put a link on the page, but make sure you read the installation instructions on the FTDI page!

Thanks Neil
I'll give it another go tonight.

the ftdi driver are they the vcp drivers that are needed?

Yep. Though for windows XP and later, there's only one driver, does all functions.

If you're using Linux and Wine, you don't need any drivers; they're in the kernel.

Qucik one,the exe is named below and my port is com 8

startrek_bosch_M2_10_4

What do i write in the command prompt for it to start reading

ive tried
startrek_bosch_M2_10_4 com8

And states unable to open com port.

Thankyou

Should i replace the _4 with 8?

"startrek_bosch_M2_10_4.exe 8" assuming you're already in the correct directory:



1.PLUG IN
Plug in the USB cable first. You will then be asked to install choose to search the cd-rom drive. If it finds them (great) then move to step 2 ok.
it didn't find them try telling windows that the drivers are in the DRIVERS\DRIVE\WHQL Certified driver directory. It should install find and you can move on on to step 2.
2.FIND THE COM PORT
Now go into control panel>system>hardware>devices and look for the serial port option. You should see something along the lines of COM3. Note the number down. Move to Step 3 COM5
3.COPY THE SOFTWARE TO YOUR COMPUTER
copy the software to your C Drive I suggest creating a C:\ST directory. Now copy the startrek software to it. I would also rename the .exe file to something simple like STARTREK.EXE as it makes things simpler later on...
4. PLUG AND SORT OF PLAY
Plug the black connector into the blue USB connector (you probably did that already). Connect the positive connector to the positive connector on the battery terminal. Plug the fiat connector into the fiat connector on the coupe (looking at the car from the front its on the left near the power steering reservoir).

(optional bit) Now if you really want you can attach the negative ground terminal to a bit of metal on the bodywork or else connect it to the negative terminal on the battery. YOU DONT HAVE TO CONNECT THE GROUND IF YOU DONT WANT TO. Attach the red connector to the positive terminal of the battery.
5. FIRE UP THE SOFTWARE
Before you do start the software, TURN ON THE INGITION (the engines does not need to be started but if it is, it needs to be idling <2000rpm for the software to work).
Now use the command line (dos / terminal or whatever you want to call it and type…} to start the software C:\ST\STARTTREK.EXE {and include the com port number here i.e 3} press enter and it should connect.

got it sorted.thanks

Before startrek you need to write where the programme is, for instance I have mine on the desktop ( now I got a laptop again!)
If you sure its com8, dont write com just leave one space after 4 and write 8
...M2_10_4 8

No: 'startrek_bosch_M2_10_4 8' (without the quotes, but with the underscores and spaces.

Got it.Thanks guys.Very nice software barnacle. Just need to know what it all means now.Its on a poorly coupe with a few faults,so posted in technical issues.

Does anyone know if you can use startrek on windows 95 or 98? I have some 100year old laptops knocking about and it beats spending money on a new laptop just to get it dirty in my engine bay.

I dont see why it wouldnt try it

Well it involves buying the cables and if it's incompatible there's no point shelling out £20 for some cables which I can't use. So if anyone knows for sure I'd be grateful if they can let me know.

Startrek was *written* on windows 2000. It should work on W98, not sure about the USB drivers for W95. It's a 32-bit application, so it won't run on 3.1...

If it's an older laptop you wouldn't want to be running fifty-three other apps on the machine at the same time, just to keep the timing as good as possible.

Actually, thinking about it... there are some calls from a later (2003) library which might call issues on the 16v graphical startrek, though I *think* they're statically linked so they might not be an issue. It's to do with the way the available serial ports are located to fill a drop-down box.

The text versions shouldn't have that issue since you select the serial port manually.

In the end I just installed XP as I am familiar with it if I need to troubleshoot.

What is the time interval between data updates on star trek and is there a way to dump the readings to a text file for logging and plotting later? Perhaps a handy little line of code I can insert somewhere in the .exe? I've done a bit of programming with matlab but I'm not really familiar with programming in dos.

The interval is about a second; it runs pretty much as fast as it can (I can't recall how I did it!)

To log it isn't quite as easy as it sounds, but you could open a log file at initialisation, and then simply copy/write everything that goes to the write-in-colour routine - it's always in the same order, and that way you'd get the errors decoded too. But you won't want the spinner...

Hi All,

My Coupe failed it's MOT on emissions. The garage said that the lambda sensor was reading erratically, and may need replacing.

Unfortunately, I don't have the details to hand of exactly what the emissions error was, but I thought I'd try and run the Startrek software to see if there were any clues, to check the diagnosis.

I'm sure I'd used it before on this car, but it doesn't seem to be connecting properly to the ECU.

As far as I can see in device manager, the serial port/USB interface is running on COM3, but when I connect it up, I can only connect to COM4 and COM8. When connected on either of these, it says the ECU ID is: 5C-5C-2E-5C-63-6F, but there seems to be no useful data visible.

Please could somebody confirm:

Where exactly is the diagnostic plug? I tried the one down the front left, but I wondering if it's not the right plug.

What other reason might there be, for it not connecting on COM3, as I'd expect?

Thanks in advance for any clues,

Ian.

The plug you need is usually mounted on the washer water bottle; occasionally on the top of the driver's side suspension tower.

Make sure you have the right version and that you're running it from a console - also ensure that you have completed the installation for the FTDI chip in the cables; it does the 'installing drivers' thing twice.

That message you're seeing isn't right: it says, in text '\\.\co' which is part of the text that sets the address, so it's not actually connecting and overwriting that with the proper data. Don't forget you have to add the number '3' after the executable file name!

Couldn't get it to work for some reason this time on port 3, but a new Lambda sensor seems to have done the trick with the emissions, so maybe I'll try some other time

I've probably knackered the drivers at some point with some other stuff installed on this PC.

I've been reading some posts about this startrek.
Is this used for reading errors on a car?

What do I need for this startrek? What sort of cable?
Does it work on 20V VIS?

It reads and clears errors as well as showing running values - but sadly not on the 20 vis.

I was trying to connect to the 20V NA ECU today - it does get connected and shows some data (water and air temperature) but not all of them. Throttle position for example is at 10% no matter what the actual position is.
Any known issues with Windows 7 or is this caused by something else?

Something else.
It seems that you are not connected to the ECU. Make sure you know which port the USB cable is using. Go to device manager and check which port is being used. Then add a space then the port number after the "exe" and it should connect and give you live data readings.

It does connect - at the same port that MultiECUscan does, but MES quits with a note that paid version is needed for that operation.
I do get some data as air and water temp but not all of them.

So are they live readings? Are they changing or static readings.
If they are static then the PC has not connected.
So you checked the serial port number in windows device manager?
So what port number is it? Try with a different port number after the exe command to see if yo get same result.

There is only one serial port on this machine - COM1 which is the interface. Meanwhile I purchased a license for Multiecuscan and it does connect via this port and gives me live data. The only thing that doesn't seem to work is the injector test - but that has nothing to do with Star Trek.

Throttle position does not seem to be available unless the engine is running but you should have other readings.

What's the long number at the bottom left of the screen after you connect? xx-xx-xx-xx-xx-xx?

I was reading trough this thread last night and just before I went to bed and I ended up ordering the cables and got the program downloaded..

I was in a wee dilema between the Widged and the Program but obviously there are more benefits from option 2 (especially the price difference)...

Thank you branacle for this!

Will let y`all know how I get on with it. I`m 99.5% sure that something will come up in RED...

I`ll post the result...

Okay people.. Finally received the second cable and I did the THING!

As promised here are the results :



If it makes any difference - the car has not been started for about 2 weeks.

So how bad is it?

It's not connected. Are you in the right connector? Should be in the one on the water reservoir.

Yes that`s the one I plugged it in to...?

This one:

That's the one. Did you select the proper port after you plugged in the adaptor? Windows usually (but not always) allocates it to port 4.

Yes I did. In my case it was port 10.

So I typed in "C:\ST\STARTREK.EXE 10

Basically this is what I did:


This is strange...

Ignition on? Needs to be on before you start startrek.

This is exactly what I experienced. I gave up. Please let me know if someone has a fix to resolve this.

Yes sir. Ignition was on before I started Startrek.

Best I can suggest is to try again then. You should see numbers different from the ones you see there on your screenshot (can't remember without the docs to hand but I think they start 60-).

Hi,

Sorry if this has been answered before, but is there a reason why I might be having a lot of stability issues with startrek? I have M2_10_4 and I am running it on windows XP (parallels on a mac) and I only ever get about 5 seconds of it running before the screen freezes and I have to control+C out and restart to get it to connect again. Doesn't it need a steady connection for a while to read any error codes? If so I won't ever be able to read any.

Thanks in advance.

Sounds like a dodgy connection to the ECU. If it loses sync, there's (damnit!) no way for the startrek to start talking again without restarting.

Worth checking the earth and the battery connections to the adaptor cable, but some ECUs just seem not to connect well.

Hi.

An old thread to awaken 8 years on but I have the injector light on and my coupe (20vt) is giving me starting issues.

I've connected startrek (version 1.01b) to try reading for errors (following the steps as per this thread) but I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong. I get an ECU ID and preliminary info but no error codes.

Can anyone help please?

Thanks in advance

Can you post a screen shot, Uby?

I've attached a photo of the screen I get when I connect.

The values don't appear very accurate

Thanks

Yeah, that's not connecting. Are you sure you're in the right connector? On a 20v it's usually in a clip on the front of the washer bottle.

Yes, definitely the correct connector.

After my initial post I re-read the thread and noticed another member had the same issue a few years ago &#9785;&#65039;

Could it be the 3pin to obd cable that's dodgy? Bought off Amazon, the cable appears to be correct. Does anyone on here have a cable which is known to work available to purchase?

Thanks

Could be... does your 3-pin adaptor have a single power lead or two? If two, it's probably best to connect both the red (to 12v) and the black (to ground) though the ground should be carried through the centre pin of the ECU connector.

As I've explained in another thread, I'm limited in the help I can offer at this point: I haven't used Windows since I wrote that code; my car in in the UK, and I'm in Germany. It gets tricky

I appreciate your time and help.

It has the red and black leads, I tried connecting just the red to the battery as well as connecting the red and the black but neither combination seemed to work so I've decided to return the cable on the assumption the cable is faulty.

I'll look into buying another cable and giving it another try unless you know of someone/a club member around Manchester who can help?

On a side note, is the fuel pump or the fuel sender unit known to become faulty on these?

From my limited knowledge, based on sound when cranking the car, it seems to be struggling for fuel (but currently has around 1/3 tank, so plenty).

Strange thing is when it does decide to start it appears to run without hesitation.

Many thanks!

Success!

Appears the cable is bought was at fault as I bought another cable and startrek now communicates successfully with the ECU.

Error code read and hopefully a rectification coming soon, means I can enjoy my coupe again

Many thanks for writing the software and for your help Neil

Glad you got it sorted.

@barnacle Hello i have problem with startrek for 16v Turbo. It works
Only when engine is on ignition. When i start engine i get message
Acces port denied. I try everything but it wont work. Can you help me.

Um... not immediately. Access port denied sounds like an error message from the operating system. Can you post a screen shot?

I will record tomorow, im using vagkkl with switch, and everything works
Perfectly while engine is off, (on ignition) i can read everything.
But soon as i start engine i get message Acces port denied.
It's unclear to me why does not work only when engine is started.

I tried on 3 diffrent Coupe's and one Lancia Delta 16vt .

This is very strange; I've never had reports of anything like this in ten years or more. I wonder about the adaptor?

Electrical magnetic interface present when car running? Cable route.

I had a similar problem when using MES (I know, devils product...) It would seem to connect but the connection would drop once the engine was running. I had the little switch on the adaptor set in the wrong position. Holding it up with the cable hanging down I had it 1st detent on left and it should be 2nd from left (from memory). One changed all has worked fine since.

My knowledge of current adaptors is minimal; I haven't bought one in years, for obvious reasons, and I can't test them at the moment being so far from the car...

If anyone has purchased an adaptor recently which has worked (or not!) to use with startrek, it might be nice to know what does and doesn't? Perhaps a post here?

Neil