Fiat Coupe Club UK
MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs
Posted By: Anonymous
MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/11/2010 20:17
Has anyone else heard about this? Anyone know if there is any truth to it?
http://wrecks2riches.co.uk/2010/10/2011-changes-to-mot/It talks about aftermarket HIDs being specifically examined for (and failed), as well as chipped ECUs (how will they establish that?)
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/11/2010 20:28
Air bag light, was that aimed only for the coupè...
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/11/2010 20:36
even if it is, and i would imagine so, easy to see if a car has been chipped, why would that be a mot fail?
Posted By: szkom
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/11/2010 20:37
I reckon it might be rubbish. The airbag light has always been a fail and HID's are already a fail.
Posted By: bockers
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/11/2010 20:42
Airbag is not a fail. Hids is a grey area and will fail if no auto adjuster IIRC.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/11/2010 20:43
I passed my mot with the airbag light on
(Oh its not a fail if its on, there's me thinking I found a mot guy who's slighty blind)
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/11/2010 20:48
Airbag warning is now going to be a MOT failure.
i'm doomed ... although as this safety 'feature' isn't on all cars, I don't see how a car can fail a MOT just because it isn't working. How would they know if you just took the warning bulb out.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/11/2010 20:52
Airbag warning is now going to be a MOT failure.
i'm doomed ...
nah dont worry duncan, just get yourself some black insulation tape and...
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/11/2010 20:56
This seriously annoys me
Guess we will see in Dec 2011 exactly what happens.
Damn italian electrics
Posted By: whatmoretyres
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/11/2010 21:01
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/11/2010 21:11
So what's the point in having an option to turn your airbag off then? Seeing as some coupe models have a key in the glove box to turn the passenger side off.
I hope this is BS!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/11/2010 21:16
I have hids in mine,thinking i should change back for the mot. Shame as they work great in the coupe. Has anyone passed an mot with hids recently,or been stopped?
Posted By: whatmoretyres
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/11/2010 21:22
No-ones failed an MOT with HIDs are far as I know
*waits to be proved wrong*!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/11/2010 21:30
I've had my coop MOT'd with HIDS in, no problem, even though it is technically illegal (I think?!) due to no washers/adjustment or something nanny-state gibberish.
What's worse is the retro fitted HIDs done in reflector headlights, they do dazzle. The coop has projector style so not a issue.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/11/2010 23:11
mine passed with Ebay "specials" that I had disconnected the height adjuster for.
I've since fitted better ones (the old ones died) and have reconnected the height adjuster with no issues so far.
Surely if the headlights are adjusted properly so as to stop dazzling other drivers there is no issue?
Or is that common sense failing in the eye of the beaurocrat? (sp?)
Paul
Posted By: pinin_prestatyn
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/11/2010 23:44
Looks like a load of old b*ll**ks to me. MOT fail for chipping the ECU. Is it April fool's yet?
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/11/2010 06:31
Looks like any modded Coupe will have to be reverted to standard at MOT time...
keep the original bits safe
!
Posted By: Baz76
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/11/2010 07:07
Never heard any of those changes mentioned but I've got a seminar coming up in February so I'll see what VOSA brings up then.
The only things I have read is that the battery is coming into the test and they're looking at reading the ECU's for emission data (which won't affect us due to our cars being too old
) .
Baz
Posted By: ikon
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/11/2010 09:06
so if they do bring in this rule about reading the ecu, would thid mean chiping/live map a newer car illegal?
Posted By: MarioCirillo
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/11/2010 09:14
Asked my old man who is a qualified MOT Tester and he hasnt heard anything about this either....
Unless it comes from VOSA its just BS IMO
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/11/2010 10:19
I do hope it is BS ... since, by definition, the ECU in my Westie is chipped
That Pistonheads thread makes interesting reading though. It does look like there might be something on their radar (in terms of trying to align European rules)
It's mentioned in the "Matters of testing" MOT testers' newsletter, issue 48.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/publications/newsletter...It says
Other items – such as headlamp
bulb and unit incompatibility,
headlamp levelling devices and
illegal engine ‘chipping’ – will need
further thought before we can get
a workable solution for MOT
stations.
Referring to the EU directive in question:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?...Section 6.1.9 lists
6.1.9. Engine performance - Visual inspection - (a) Control unit illegal modified (b) illegal engine modification
Looks like it is coming, but even VOSA don't know how to police it.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/11/2010 10:30
Headlamp bulb and unit incompatibility would scupper hids for coupes, nobody's going to get a headlamp certified for a 15 yr old car
I only got hids the other day too, still, will maybe get a years use out of them before I'm forced back to night breakers.
Might even persuade me to buy new headlight units
Posted By: ikon
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/11/2010 10:54
my mot is due in feburary if this does come into play i will have to remove my hid's
Posted By: stan
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/11/2010 11:06
my mot is due in feburary if this does come into play i will have to remove my hid's
Nope, because it's not due to come in until Sept/Oct 2011 at least.
I have my own views on this, unfortunately to safeguard my pension, I'd better keep my gob shut, but some of it won't affect us, the ECU stuff for example, but the HiDs, well, just think about the already illegal decats......
Wooosh! What was that?
Oh, that was my pension being pulled from underneath me!
Doh!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/11/2010 12:05
I have hids in mine,thinking i should change back for the mot. Shame as they work great in the coupe. Has anyone passed an mot with hids recently,or been stopped?
I got an MOT last week with HIDs, they are still fine.
I wonder if there will be a new failure "Inactive Ballast lurking suspiciously close to the headlight area"
Posted By: ikon
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/11/2010 12:09
ah good
so thats atleast one more year of being able to see in the dark. hmmmm but wont hid's be easier to spot than decats??
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/11/2010 12:42
Not if you are using an exhaust gas analyser, which of course the MOT tester should be....
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/11/2010 15:54
Damn it - I'm going to fit my HIDs (which have been sitting boxed up in the boot for weeks) regardless. Picking my son up from school and driving home down the country lanes is hazardous with the OE lamps
. I will fit my Night Breakers in the main beams as well.
May try to get an MOT next week first though
,
Tim
Posted By: MarioCirillo
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/11/2010 16:33
Here is the FULL Article
Make your own minds up
I think they need to define Illegal Chippin before we jump to conclusions. Otherwise what they are saying is a ban on Modified Cars... which realistically isnt going to happen!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/11/2010 18:03
Thanks Mario
From that it sounds like they've still got a lot of work to do before deciding how to implement the new Directive. Hopefully it'll cause no problems, but it is something we need to keep our eyes on.
Posted By: Rudidudi
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/01/2011 22:41
Enjoy folks
(From MLR)
There are to be some changes to the MOT test from 1st January 2012 which are being introduced in response to European Commission Directive 2010/48/EU of the 5th July 2010 and which will effect those with aftermarket HID headlights and remapped ECUs:
4.1.4 Compliance with requirements:
(a) Lamp, emitted colour, position or intensity not in accordance with the requirements
(b) Products on lens or light source which obviously reduce light intensity or change emitted colour
© Light source and lamp not compatible
4.1.5. Levelling devices (where mandatory):
(a) Device not operating.
(b) Manual device cannot be operated from driver’s seat.
4.1.6 Headlamp cleaning device (where mandatory):
Device not operating.
For anyone with a remap, section 6.1.9 may be relevant.
6.1.9 Engine performance:
(a) Control unit illegal modified.
(b) Illegal engine modification.
(by 'illegal', it is assumed that they mean changed/programmed differently from OEM specifications)
There will also be a new check on the general condition of the wiring:
4.11. Electrical wiring
(a) Wiring insecure or not adequately secured.
(b) Wiring deteriorated.
© Damaged or deteriorated insulation
and on the function of airbag and seat belt pre-tensioner systems:
7.1.4. Safety belt Pre-tensioners:
Pre-tensioner obviously missing or not suitable with the vehicle.
7.1.5. Airbag:
(a) Airbags obviously missing or not suitable with the vehicle.
(b) Airbag obviously non-operative.
7.1.6. SRS Systems:
SRS MIL indicates any kind of failure of the system.
Originally Posted by VOSA
The car/light goods vehicle MOT test is about to change – the European Commission has changed the Directive that covers it. We take a look at when these changes are likely to come into effect and what they mean for MOT testers.
Britain has been testing vehicles under the MOT scheme for 50 years now. Last year, the European Directive covering the MOT test was updated and revised by a modern version called 2009/40/ EC. This was then updated by 2010/48/EU, which was ratified on 5 July this year.
The new Directive keeps the EU minimum 4-2-2 test frequency but adds a number of new elements to the British MOT test. The Directive anticipates all test changes being in place by 1 January 2012, and a common European approach to test certificates in place by 1 January 2014. So what is VOSA doing to introduce the changes?
In terms of test frequency, in mid-July the coalition government confirmed that it intends ‘to look at the issue of MOT test frequencies later this year’. VOSA contributed statistical data to inform the last review in 2008, and we expect that our computer system and the data you have entered will be utilised again in much the same way.
We expect to hear more details of the government’s review proposals later in the year.
As far as changes to the test content are concerned, VOSA has already been analysing the requirements of the new Directive and working out how to implement them. We started this earlier in the year by talking with representatives of the MOT trade at our regular Trade User Group and VTS Council meetings. Both VOSA and the Department for Transport (DfT) are keen to ensure that any changes to the test are introduced in as practical a way as possible, keeping the burden on the trade to a minimum and ideally keeping the changes cost neutral.
In many cases, the changes shouldn’t necessarily lead to an increase in average test times. A good example is the malfunction indicator lamps on the dashboard that indicate defective electronic power steering, electronic stability control and secondary restraint systems. Testers already check the dashboard for other lamps, so no extra time would be required for this addition to the test.
Electrical wiring and batteries are now included in the test’s scope, but testers already check the vehicle structure where wiring is secured – often along the same routes as other testable items, such as brake pipes in the engine compartment. So again, this doesn’t look like an additional burden on the tester. In the pre-computerisation days, testers often (wrongly) failed vehicles for insecure batteries, so they must have been looking at them then! Now, it means that when we implement the new Directive, vehicles can legitimately fail for battery insecurity, for no extra tester effort.
Other items – such as headlamp bulb and unit incompatibility, headlamp levelling devices and illegal engine ‘chipping’ – will need further thought before we can get a workable solution for MOT stations.
Some of the new items may require extra effort on the part of the tester – when we know for sure what that is we’ll be talking again with our trade and DfT colleagues to work out what the impact will be.
The common EU test certificate should be relatively easy to achieve – the only data that the Directive expects and that we don’t currently provide is the symbol for the vehicle’s country of origin. Probably 99% of vehicles tested will have
‘UK’ entered here, but if you do test vehicles with a foreign plate, you will need to enter the correct country symbol. We may even be able to make this change earlier if there is a convenient opportunity.
The MOT trade can rest assured that VOSA is working closely with you to introduce any new elements as efficiently and effectively as possible, with the minimum of fuss. Just as importantly, we are also working closely with Siemens to ensure that any system changes due on New Year’s Eve 2011 go smoothly! We should know more by the time the MOT seminars take place – come along and ask the experts.
directive
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2010:173:0047:0072:EN:PDF
page 8
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repositor...Oct%202010.pdffrom a poster on MLR
Ecu remaps will not fail an MOT under the new legislation. For one it's far too expensive to buy the equipment necessary to read all the different OEM and Aftermarket ecus. What VOSA are concentrating on are piggyback units and how the are installed.
There has been lots of talk regarding the new items that are going to be included in the annual MOT test from the 01st January 2012.
We have put together this document to put at rest the forum talk over “illegal” ECU chipping.
The EU have put into place a new directive, number 2010/48/EU which is a revised directive of 2009/40/EU. This will come into force as of the 01st January 2012. The items to be included in the annual MOT from this directive are as follows:
Airbag warning lights
MIL lights
Seat belt pre-tensioners
Battery security
Wiring looms
Headlamp bulb and unit incompatibility
Illegal engine 'chipping'
New diesel emission limits for vehicles registered on or after the 01st July 2008
The main subject that has had major discussion is the illegal engine chipping which we will try and explain what the UK might adopt in the process of the inspection during the MOT.
There are some tuning companies that supply tuning boxes that work as a 'piggy' back to the ECU or connected somewhere in the fuel system. These types of tuning boxes will be easy to pick up on the MOT by a Nominated Tester (NT) and will be failed under the new rules.
The other tuning companies that use the OBD to access the ECU to carry out a remap, will be ok when it comes to the MOT as there are no signs of modifications. The only time that this type of tuning will become a problem is if the software that is used is poorly written and clearly has no respect for emissions levels or smoke levels on diesels and will fail the basic emissions tests.
A visual check should be the method of inspection that may be introduced by the Department for Transport (DfT), and the same rule that applies now with regards to 'no dismantling' will still be there. There is however a huge flaw in this, if a car has had a damaged ECU and this has been replaced with obvious signs then this would be classed as a fail. If the ECU is tuned and replaced in the car correctly with all the correct anti tamper bolts this is a pass.
The DfT are also unlikely to introduce any new tool to the MOT to check ECU's via the OBD. Such a tool will be very costly and if brought in will mean an increase in the MOT fee which is currently at £54.85 for class 4 (other fees are different dependant on test class). We would estimate that the test fee would need to go up by 50 - 100% in order to cover costs of the tool and the extra time taken for the test, the logistics of this would also be prohibitive meaning every manufacturer would need to submit their entire database of standard files accessible to a system the DfT would have to develop to check this and service 19000+ outlets. For all these reasons, OBD tuning will not be checked.
Vehicles are built to a type approval standard and when chipped some EU States believe this defeats the object of the approval in regards to emissions. At present the emissions test is only carried out with no load on the engine. The DfT may bring in something to the MOT test to check emissions under load but again this is very unlikely due to the time needed and the NT having to take the vehicle out on a road test.
So in summary.....
Any vehicle that has a remap/chip will and can be failed under new proposals. As long as you have a OBD, chip, direct bench flash remap and no tampering is obvious to the ECU as well as the vehicle passing its emissions test, you will be fine and your beloved vehicle will pass year after year.
If you have bought a plug in tuning box you will find it hard to get an MOT pass as the NT will see it and then fail the vehicle.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/01/2011 22:57
very interesting read.
imo most of the above couldn't be enforced for obvious logistical, finacial and commercial reasons.
its unclar as well as to what age of car this will apply to, ie from cars manufactured after 2012?
They surely can't back track over the last 10-15 years of millions of cars???
Simular to the seatbelts rule.
In 1972? (i think) seatbelts became part of the mot test however all cars pre 1972? do not require seatbelts (however if fitted must work).
ie, we have a 1959 Cadilliac which has no sealtbelts and passed time and time again.
Also, cat converter in 1992, same story.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/01/2011 22:57
I can see a lot of people putting standard lights in for the MOT and switching straight back to HIDs again afterwards.
Anyone with a flea map will be fine as he just changes the data on the chip, he doesnt bolt anything extra on to make it look any different than normal
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/01/2011 23:11
Having a think about it, this is just a STEALTH TAX.
Thi is just another reason to increase MOT's and Road tax.
lol so lets say they do enforce this.
MOT time will consist of (for me):
Removing De-cat and replace with normal CAT.
Remove HID's and replace with standard bulbs (less safe?)
Remove Widget (as this obviously is something connected to the ECU)
Remove aftermarket Steering Wheel and replace with standard one so air bag light goes off.
should I mention GT28rs, FMIC adn some serious evidence of tampering (*Tinkering)
(all above based on my 97 inky
)
How will you
eat yours? prepare yours?
Posted By: Rudidudi
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/01/2011 23:33
I think they need to define Illegal Chippin before we jump to conclusions. Otherwise what they are saying is a ban on Modified Cars... which realistically isnt going to happen!
i dont see it like that, banning modified cars is easily a possibility. what benefit does the modified car market bring to govt? none.
look at the italian 'collaudo' (mot), forget bringing a modified car, it'll fail even if the tyres arent standard sizes.
on the flip side there are lots of benefits to not allowing modded cars.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/01/2011 00:33
what benefit does the modified car market bring to govt? none.
TAX
modifying is big business on this little island, lots and lots of VAT to be had from all the modifying that goes on, not to mention increased fuel consumption leading to more tax, and the number of people employed in it who pay income tax etc etc etc
Paul
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/01/2011 01:48
Lots of businesses would go under if all cars had to be completely standard, with the resulting loss of jobs and loss of support for the politicians who implemented it.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/01/2011 12:08
what benefit does the modified car market bring to govt? none.
TAX
modifying is big business on this little island, lots and lots of VAT to be had from all the modifying that goes on, not to mention increased fuel consumption leading to more tax, and the number of people employed in it who pay income tax etc etc etc
Paul
Hit the nail on the head there! Makes me sick that the government dont actually give a shit about anything its just money money money and the best excuse to take it from us ie the environment, speed cameras etc etc
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/01/2011 12:12
Also what gives them the right to take away our right to modify our cars? Because it makes them dangerous? I think I would fancy my chances with grooved discs and yellow stuff pads and coilover over standard parts if I was needing to stop to avoid an accident! Cant pull the environment card either as im pretty sure the mp's jags and 4x4's give out more co2 than a coupe!
Rant over
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/01/2011 20:35
Also what gives them the right to take away our right to modify our cars? ....
Yes because modified is far more dangerous than the drunk with the slicks and no insurance.
All the police would have to do is have a look at the cars parked in Warrington Tesco car park to find at least 1 car a day with bald tires. most seem to be disabled or have child seat.
Not that I am stereotyping they are maybe just the one around the door.
Posted By: sugerbear
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 11/01/2011 09:43
Since when has it been "illegal" to modify an ECU ?
Its not illegal to modify the ECUU, its illegal to modify car / ECU and not tell your insurance.
You have signed nothing in contract between you and the manufacturer of the vehicle and there is nothing in law to stop you modifying your car. So unless a law is introduced that specifically makes it illegal to modify/ecu then you are free to add/replace and manipulate the ECU as you see fit (as long as you tell your insurance company of course).
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 11/01/2011 10:52
Hmm.....
I hope they don't think that my Apexi is a ECU chipping device (as it uses feeds from the ECU to work). Does anyone now how all the jap tuning boxes work (Apexi Power Commander etc..) as surely this might fall under the same thing.
Not a good sign for Dastek unichips either.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 11/01/2011 22:44
Yeah I am wondering about my alarm as well as this is wired in to the code box and the ecu.
Posted By: pinin_prestatyn
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 12/01/2011 00:00
IMO it looks like we're moving slowly towards the Swiss MOT system, where any mods is an instant fail. This will come in a little at a time, chipping away until it's too late!
Posted By: barnacle
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 12/01/2011 08:04
There are still kit cars...
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 12/01/2011 08:20
I think there is a little vagueness still surrounding these changes. Firstly, a lot of ECU's are buried well within the depths of the car, and hard to locate easily, therefore under VOSA ruling, considering the NT cannot disassemble the car to locate things, it has to be taken at face value, and the NT at worst can only advise that the ECU cannot be located. The rule about plug and play chips however is more likely as a lot of them come from unknown backgrounds, and are relatively unproven, and can be fitted by monkeys. I can only see the real objections being emission related, and is more likely to be due to the roll out of the new Euro V emission regulations, which will only effect new vehicles. Simply put, the Coupe's are safe
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 12/01/2011 09:25
If this is true it absolutley ridiculous......My factory Bulbs were dangerous. I was actually braking mid-corner in the dark as I could not see the exits...... HIDS have definately improved safety.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 12/01/2011 09:32
The only issues surrounding HID's is the colour temperature which basically is an indication of colour and brightness. as lonjg as they're within legal limits then they're perfectly legal.
Posted By: Kayjey
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 12/01/2011 09:39
Even if it's all about emissions, due to the way they test these there is no difference between a chipped and an unchipped car.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 12/01/2011 09:43
some chips which are focussed more toward performance rather than performance/economy balance tend to throw rather more fuel in than needed and as a reault emissions can be higher thats all
Posted By: Begbie
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 12/01/2011 09:55
Where is Baz76 when you need him. He would be able to give the in's and out's of all of this and think he did earlier in the thread.
Posted By: barnacle
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 12/01/2011 10:24
The only issues surrounding HID's is the colour temperature which basically is an indication of colour and brightness. as lonjg as they're within legal limits then they're perfectly legal.
Um, not actually the case. Since they're not type approved on the coupe, they're not permitted - they have neither washers not automatic levelling devices.
But that's not an MOT issue at present; that cares only that they work and that they point in the right direction. Instead, it's a constructions and use regulation; failure to comply carries (last time I looked) a seventy-five quid fine and three points per offence - it's the same rules as for tyres; four bald gets you a ban. Strictly, two HIDs on a car not type-approved with them gets you half a ban.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 12/01/2011 12:21
There are still kit cars...
second that!
There are too many rules and regs that have been set up in the past to suit "other sectors" that the new rules would contradict.
The cost to sort out a complete new system that caters for all would surely cost too much against what benifit?
IMO we all know that every year the automotive technology improves. Banning the use of newer safer technology (i.e. HID's), improving the older generation of cars, seems to be a step in the wrong direction.
No matter how I look at this topic, the gut feeling is that the govenment want to push people into buying newer cars, (for obvious reasons) even if second hand, as this will continue up the chain meaning more people buy new cars and pay the tax associated.
don't even get me started on, Road Tax, Council Tax, Petrol Prices and Breathing Air Tax. Rar Rar Rar.............
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 12/01/2011 20:06
constructions and use regulation; failure to comply carries (last time I looked) a seventy-five quid fine and three points per offence - it's the same rules as for tyres; four bald gets you a ban. Strictly, two HIDs on a car not type-approved with them gets you half a ban.
Cor blimey Gov! better get them adjusted well so as to not attract attention. Has anyone actually known to have been pulled or convicted under this regulation
Posted By: stan
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 12/01/2011 20:35
Posted By: Baz76
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 12/01/2011 21:59
Where is Baz76 when you need him. He would be able to give the in's and out's of all of this and think he did earlier in the thread.
As I said earlier,I'll see what VOSA say at the seminar in February
.
Baz
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 12/01/2011 22:22
Hmm.....
I hope they don't think that my Apexi is a ECU chipping device (as it uses feeds from the ECU to work). Does anyone now how all the jap tuning boxes work (Apexi Power Commander etc..) as surely this might fall under the same thing.
Not a good sign for Dastek unichips either.
Chris - the Power FC and commander is a separate ECU with the 'commander' being a handheld device with graphic displays and the ability to change parameters. I wonder what they would make of that? It's unlikely that they would have all the data on my rx7 anyway as it's an import - it does not have to have a CAT to pass it's MOT by law.
I am all for making the testing of HIDS part of the MOT. All the OEM parts on Range Rovers and similar 4 by 4's are very dazzling to a normal car when in front of one. They need to be installed correctly and legally to be safe IMO.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 13/01/2011 11:47
...and those Audi Daylight LED thingys....
Posted By: Baz76
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/02/2011 06:41
Well according to one of the head VOSA guys at the seminar on Monday night,HID's are going to be in the test for next year
. He commented on how you should be inspecting the car for a headlamp wash system and self levelling adjusters if you can clearly see that an HID kit has been installed ie ballast pack fitted to the outside of headlight.
As for ECU testing,I don't think that's going to happen yet because when we questioned him about using scan tools he didn't seem to realise that not every scan tool can read every car 100%,therefore the only way it would get the go ahead would be if there was a dedicated scan tool for the job.
Baz
Posted By: ikon
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/02/2011 08:33
baz76
did VOSA mention anything about if your using standard bulbs but a ballast attached, would they assume you will be using hids? which will mean a fail??
steve
Posted By: Baz76
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 09/02/2011 14:54
baz76
did VOSA mention anything about if your using standard bulbs but a ballast attached, would they assume you will be using hids? which will mean a fail??
steve
I never asked that as I would hope that any tester would see the difference between HID's and ordinary halogen headlights
.
It shouldn't matter to the NT whether your using HID's before or after the test as long as your ordinary bulbs are fitted at the time of test then it should be ok (although your still at risk of being pulled by the police for using HID's without the appropriate washers/adjusters as mentioned above,but that's a risk we're all taking just now anyway
).
Baz
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/02/2011 08:08
What is it about HIDS that mean you have to have washers?
Posted By: bockers
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/02/2011 09:03
I think the reasoning is that because HIDS are that much brighter and refraction of the light, due to dirt or badly adjusted leveling, could dazzle oncomming drivers.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/02/2011 10:26
I think the reasoning is that because HIDS are that much brighter and refraction of the light, due to dirt or badly adjusted leveling, could dazzle oncomming drivers.
Well maybe they should consider requiring 4x4s to have their lights mounted as low as cars do... I get dazzled far more by 4x4s at night than I do by cars with bright lights.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/02/2011 10:40
Agreed spookly.......and by them darn Audi daylights
Posted By: evo_number_one
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/02/2011 15:59
How easy is it to swap back to Halogens for MOT time?
Didn't fit my HIDs myself so not sure whats involved - although all the old fittings and the bulbs were retained.
Posted By: charlie_croker
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/02/2011 17:43
10-15 minutes to change back. Would take longer if you had to remove ballasts, but it's quite easy.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 11/02/2011 00:37
Well maybe they should consider requiring 4x4s to have their lights mounted as low as cars do... I get dazzled far more by 4x4s at night than I do by cars with bright lights.
And the police could start stopping all the w***kers driving around with their fog lights on aaaarrrrggghhhh drives me mental
As earlier posts have said;
- potential stealth tax pushing MOT cost and frequency up
- liberals and tree huggers eroding the fun of modding so we all end up in a Prius
etc etc
Many of the cars owned on this forum are probably amongst the safest on the road with the care and attention they get!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 11/02/2011 21:53
Hmm.....
I hope they don't think that my Apexi is a ECU chipping device (as it uses feeds from the ECU to work). Does anyone now how all the jap tuning boxes work (Apexi Power Commander etc..) as surely this might fall under the same thing.
When the capri goes up for a mot in a few years its going to be fun! might have to buy another standard car and put the Id on it just to pass the mot every year
Posted By: mr_tickle
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 11/02/2011 22:02
I'm not so sure that this is such a big deal.
If we have to swap our ECU's, Decats and HIDS back to standard for a day once a year, it's not too hard?
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 13/02/2011 01:04
I think the reasoning is that because HIDS are that much brighter and refraction of the light, due to dirt or badly adjusted leveling, could dazzle oncomming drivers.
Well maybe they should consider requiring 4x4s to have their lights mounted as low as cars do... I get dazzled far more by 4x4s at night than I do by cars with bright lights.
Yep - drives me nuts, makes me want to get out and smash their headlights in traffic.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 13/02/2011 01:32
Ever had a Jeep Cheroke sitting behind you, where it has had aftermarket HIDs fitted..genuinely dangerous as the lens housing cannot focus the HID and its like a stadium floodlight.
Lets not forget beemers and all manner of chavs with 6000k or 8000k purple lights focussed incorrecly to hit the immediate distance..lol
Posted By: Barmybob
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 13/02/2011 16:47
although your still at risk of being pulled by the police for using HID's without the appropriate washers/adjusters
Baz
So we need a group buy on headlamp washer kits then?
The lamps already have height adjustment so we just need to make them receive a signal from a vehicle height sensor rather than the manual switch. This has to be really easy, a simple three position switch sensing the difference between axle and body?
Posted By: whatmoretyres
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 13/02/2011 17:01
I'm not so sure that this is such a big deal.
If we have to swap our ECU's, Decats and HIDS back to standard for a day once a year, it's not too hard?
That's not the problem though. A de-cat/ecu change is going to be a lot harder to spot than HIDs by your local force. So realistically, they can stand by the side of the road pulling in every car with HIDs, they're pretty obvious. Then it'll be prohibition notices and points and what-not.
You may find we ALL have to go back to halogen because some lights are incorrectly adjusted. I know I find 4x4 lights the brightest whatever - they're at head height!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 13/02/2011 18:30
Clearly very handy when you work in an MOT Garage
lol
As far as i have been made aware... HiD's are only illegal if no headlight washers are fitted.
Posted By: Anonymous
MOT & HID - 22/02/2011 14:35
Just had an Mot test, passed with no advisory.
Aftermarket HIDs' are fitted.
I asking the tester before the test regarding non oe hids' and washers, he has not received any notice from VOSA.
So carry on lads' and lasses'
Posted By: stan
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 22/02/2011 15:44
Except that it doesn't take effect until September: try it again next year and see what happens.......
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 22/02/2011 15:48
Yeah! You just try it Mr ....
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 22/02/2011 16:01
Except that it doesn't take effect until September: try it again next year and see what happens.......
Now he says, I thought it was from Jan 1st
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 22/02/2011 16:05
Except that it doesn't take effect until September: try it again next year and see what happens.......
Now his says, I thought it was from Jan 1st
I thought it was Jan 2012 too!
My MOT runs out at the end of Jan so my plan is to MOT the car with the HIDs on at the end of December.
Doubt anyone is going to get pulled for HIDs in coops unless they are way out of alignment, although given the attitude of some of the police you never know.
Posted By: stan
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 03/10/2011 08:26
Just to bring this one back up to the top.....
I had a visit from a group of my colleagues on Saturday and the MOT changes were part of our discussions, boring and sad I know, but there you go!
Anyway, for clarity, these changes take effect from 1st January 2012. However, I have been reliably informed that for the first three months they will be advisories only, but from April cars fitted with aftermarket HiD kits will fail the MOT, simple as that!
However.....do not panic, I *may* have found a possible argument for us to use but my colleagues were split 40/60% as to whether this would work...
Have a look at this document detailing the changes:
from the horse's mouth! Now look at this quote:
It is also worthy of note that a few high performance vehicles fitted with HID headlamps that have barely any luggage space and stiff suspension do not require a self-levelling system
What we cannot figure out is whether this refers to aftermarket kits or manufacturers. The guys also had a look at the coupé and reckoned we'd be hard-pressed to argue we have "barely any luggage space" and they pointed out that we'd still need headlamp washing systems.
I suspect the only things we can do is see what happens to the poor souls who present their coupés for MOT during the first three months of 2012 and hope they report their results on here. I think I'll either be hiding the ballasts and praying, or swapping back to halogens for the test....
Oh, and what worries me more is that there are changes coming to the brake efficiency tests in 2013 but I haven't got the full details yet. I sincerely hope they aren't hoping to increase the rear values
Posted By: stan
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 03/10/2011 08:46
Also, meant to mention that for a new item: the airbag warning light illuminated *will* be an MOT failure, as will obviously missing/damaged/inoperative airbags.
That is going to affect many coupés that I've seen, where the airbag light is illuminated/missing/taped over and also where people have fitted aftermarket steering wheels.....
There is also a new section of the test on the electrical socket of any towbar fitted to a Class IV vehicle (our cars), and the electrical socket must be secure and working properly! I only mention this because I know a few owners have fitted a towbar to the coupé.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 03/10/2011 09:57
The hid issue is going to be a problem. I can't go back to candles.
Posted By: PeteP
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 03/10/2011 10:27
If necessary I shall temporarily refit my spare candle powered headlight units, but the MOT is due on 31st March so it should just scrape in under the wire next time.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 03/10/2011 10:43
My mot due in April, so I'll probably use the 1 month early to try and avoid issue this year.
Ross
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 03/10/2011 10:51
Surely they can't fail you for just having a ballast unconnected under your bonnet so it's just the 15 minute inconvenience of putting halogens back in before the MOT. The only risk would be if you're pulled by the police with the HIDs fitted.
I'm sure if it went to court you could successfully argue that the original headlights aren't fit for purpose without HID bulbs. All you need to do is take the judge for a spin at night.
On the "Bloody Stupid Scale" these new rules are right up there with a bald spare tyre being a fail despite the fact that you can pass if you just remove said tyre before the test!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 03/10/2011 15:10
My MOT runs out on 1/1/2012 so I get it done around Christmas.
<smug grin>
That is ofcourse hoping that it passes. If it fails there is normally a few panic days fixing something before everyone goes on holiday.
Posted By: charlie_croker
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 03/10/2011 18:00
It seems unfair to apply a "law" retrospectively. I could understand it, if they said any vehicles presented for an MOT first registered after 01/01/2012 will be subject to the new regs. They don't insist that vehicles registered before 1997(? can't recall exact year), are fitted with a rear brake light do they? So why is this so different?
To be honest people driving with their rear fog lights on, with only one headlight working, or no rear brake lights other than a few bulbs on the centre one, all of which I have witnessed recently present far more of a danger.
The law is an ass!
Posted By: growlingbear
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 12/12/2011 19:32
I read in the Honest John column in Saturday's Telegraph that the MOT is becoming more stringent next year including a test on airbag proficiancy. Well that's me buggered then. I've had the ongoing airbag light-on scenario for years. Its been "fixed" a million times and always comes back on again after a few weeks. No MOT - No Coupe!!
Posted By: Nigel
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 12/12/2011 20:00
growlingbear - sounds like a dodgy connection or maybe the airbag ECU
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 13/12/2011 11:18
growlingbear - sounds like a dodgy connection or maybe the airbag ECU
You still got the pod for the sykes for that? If so Pm me.
Ross
Posted By: bikenut55
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 13/12/2011 12:44
I wanted to fit HID's to my A4 but decided against it due to the new legislation.
Instead, I went for Osram night breakers which are better than standard but no where near as good as the HID's I had on the Coupe and the S3.
Posted By: growlingbear
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 13/12/2011 20:31
growlingbear - sounds like a dodgy connection or maybe the airbag ECU
cheers Nigel. Tell me about it. It's been into Motormech loads of times now and its the same old problem. Various connectors have been re-assembled/cleaned. ECU reset etc. Can't imagine now how it'll pass this new MOT unless I get the ECU reset the day before and hope for the best.
Posted By: stan
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 21/12/2011 04:58
Posted By: danb052k
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/01/2012 13:03
Hi all,
Just to bring this topic back up as i am considering upgrading to HID's....with all this talk of MOT's i decided to email VOSA directly to ask them about the changes to 2012 MOT's, and this was their reply:
"HiD and LED headlamp levelling and washing systems will only be tested where they are fitted. If they are found to be inoperative or otherwise obviously defective they will fail. In the case of headlamp levelling, the tester must be certain that the system is operative before failing, as on some of these systems it is not possible to readily determine that they work as intended.
The reason the test is this way is because not all HiD headlamps are legally required to be fitted with these systems. To be mandatory, the headlamp has to be over 2000 lumen. Generally, it is not possible for an MOT tester to determine whether this is the case, so the test is 'simplified' to take account of this.
DfT produce a factsheet on aftermarket HiD headlamps at
http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps.html although this does not mention the 2000 lumen requirement.
I hope this information has assisted you with your enquiry, but if you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us again."
Does this clear things up or have i asked the wrong questions? Apologies if i have...im not technical minded when it comes to cars!
Thanks.
Dan
Posted By: stevo
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/01/2012 13:16
Mine passed in December with HID's.
Posted By: snapychapy
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/01/2012 13:33
so did mine
Posted By: PeteP
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/01/2012 13:36
The changes are not introduced until April 2012, so the testing parameters were different then.
Posted By: volumex
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/01/2012 14:11
what a crock..... have a new bonnet fitted last year after a blind old fool reversed into me and it now has head light wash jets in it...... and they are not plumbed in.....can somebody tell me how they are supposed to work lights off not working lights on working how they work is it when you wash the windscreen and has anybody got a European washer bottle
Posted By: DaveG
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 10/01/2012 21:34
Wifey's V40 has wipers (not washers) on the headlights and they come on with the windscreen washers, so I assume that headlight washers should work the same?
Posted By: Serg1
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 11/01/2012 14:46
Just returned after my coupe passed it's MOT with; HIB's, Chipped, airbag light on and blue side lights. I feel very lucky.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 11/01/2012 14:53
Just returned after my coupe passed it's MOT with; HIB's, Chipped, airbag light on and blue side lights. I feel I got my money's worth from my bribe.
Fixed that for you!!
Ross
Posted By: MCMike
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 11/01/2012 14:56
Yes but the new regs don't apply 'til April as per Pete's post ? - so i'll hold off putting HIDS on the black LE until after that I think, assuming people can still pass !
Posted By: Serg1
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 11/01/2012 14:57
It's incredible what some people will do for a bag of Jelly beans!!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 28/03/2012 21:21
Just updating this to say my LE flew through the MoT today - no mention of HIDS (OK its pre April still!) or my cut down Number plates (12mm min border still).
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 29/03/2012 23:14
Glad to see
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 29/03/2012 23:25
I'm mot'in my car on sat which is the 31st to avoid the new regs.
Ross
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 30/03/2012 01:01
My MOT's run out and my brake lines are in bits
looks like mine might be the first to be tested under new regs next week. I'm going to give it a go with HID's in and see what happens
Posted By: Baz76
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 30/03/2012 17:17
Just to repeat what I posted on an MOT thread a wee while back:-
Well it looks like our HID kits are fine for the MOT after asking the question at the VOSA seminar I attended last night. As has been mentioned above there is no requirement in the inspection manual for there to washers or automatic headlight adjusters,but if they are fitted then they must work.
The only ones who'll have to worry about aftermarket HID's now are those that are fitted to reflector lens headlights as the beam image is usually all over the place with them!
You shouldn't be able to get a failure as there will be no "Reason for Refusal" text for the NT to select
.
Baz
Posted By: Richard24
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 30/03/2012 18:21
Mines having it's service & MOT 2nd weekend in April.
My dad will be doing these for me
But he's a fussy git so i better get my tyres sorted out.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 30/03/2012 19:39
Booked in for Monday, let's see (punn intended)
Posted By: Gunzi
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 02/04/2012 09:59
Mines in for an MOT today. I asked about the HID's and non-functioning headlamp levelers and was told that it will be ok this year, but next year will be a failure.
Will report back this afternoon.
Posted By: Gunzi
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 02/04/2012 13:15
Well she passed!
Posted By: Scuderia
Re: MOT changes? HIDS and chipped ECUs - 02/04/2012 13:55
Well I'm quite surprised to read this.
I had a WOF (MOT) licence in New Zealand and practiced for over 10 years.
All of the items mentioned on the first link to this thread are indeed fail items since the early '00. Some like the chipped ECU and HID etc came in later. However HID kits would not pass in a reflector lamp under the old rules anyway. There is some onus on the owner/driver to ensure their car is legal. It is impractical to check for a modified ECU during an inspection. In NZ you can have almost any modification you want, only some need to be approved or certified.
Airbag and ABS warning lights are pretty standard. They are warning lights telling you there is something wrong at the end of the day. Both the lights need to operate correctly, i.e. turn on when the key is on and go out once the engine is started. Yes you can rewire these but it does not really happen.
I would have thought little old New Zealand would be rather relaxed compared to the mother country. Looks like I was wrong. However there is no emission requirements.