Possible Brake concern?

I know there is a great deal of knowledge on this forum and I have read some great threads over the years and it has helped me tremendously for which I am grateful.
I may or may not have an issue so I would really appreciate anyone's advise/help on this matter.
Here goes....On my 20vt I have had braided brake lines and the fluid changed several years ago (5.1 DOT) – I have EBC Grooved and dimpled discs with red stuff pads (both front and rear). When I brake at high speed hard the pedal seems to go further and further down before I actually get any bite (don’t get me wrong it does stop) but when I compare it to the other cars I drive it seems inadequate for the Brembo 4 pot callipers. I have checked the pads and they have 5mm left on them and the fluid level is fine too.
Any suggestions/thoughts?

What's the history on the brembo calipers, have they ever been overhauled? When were the fluid and dust seals last replaced? have you tried bleeding the calipers? Did the pads need grinding down to fit past the guides? How even is the wear on the inner and outer pads? Do the pistons move freely (you'll need to remove the pads, easier to check with the brake disc removed too and the calipers bolted back in place, but be careful the caliper bolts don't strip the threads in the caliper if they've not been touched for a long time)

The fronts do most of the braking but don't forger the rears too, a good check is to feel (hold your hand near but don't touch) the rear discs to see if there's any heat in them after a good amount of braking, if not, and if the outer part the disc face is rusty, then chances are the rear brakes are not helping either.

Thank you for getting back so quickly - The callipers were overhauled just before Flea did his magic around 5 years ago - I am not sure on the grinding side on the guides to fit past:( I will check the inner pads wear over the weekend and see what is going on and get back to you on that. I do not feel a 'spongy pedal' so I doubt it will need bleeding but it may be worth doing. The rear discs are nice and clean with no surface rust.

It is worth bleeding the fluid at all points to get rid of any air that maybe there, but also to change the fluid if it hasn't been done for some years.
I change the fluid approximately every 2 years or so. Its amazing how dirty it gets.
I would flush at least 1 litre through the system but 2 litres would be better. no need to use 5.1 either, just more expensive.

Sounds normal, the 20vt brakes have always felt mediocre at best, even when everything was new.

Still better than the brakes on the non turbo's - I never feel as confident with those - but the less weight helps a bit

As long as the discs and pads are of good quality and condition and the flexi-hoses are not perished/delaminated, etc., "my" 20V seems pretty good - always was right from day one. The results at the last TÜV test with new ATE discs and standard FIAT pads was the best yet after 21 years. If they are in poor condition, no brakes will feel good.

Are you saying that when braking from high speed, you have long pedal travel, or rather that nothing happens for a while before you get any bite? I thought you meant the former, but was then a bit surprised that you say the pedal is not spongy. If it's a long pedal, I'd think that was air in the system & bleeding should fix it. On the other hand, if it's just no initial bite, I'd suspect glazed pads. Try the repeated high-speed braking procedure that's on the forum somewhere - I think it's under 'Pagid pad breaking' or similar. If that doesn't work, try some new pads - personally I'm not a fan of EBC, I'd go for Pagid blue or Brembo fast road pads.

I also have had RedStuff on another car - very poor cold performance and only average hot performance. It is a low-dust pad, but not a very good pad. On the Jaguar I had them on, they measured about 20% lower than standard pads at the TÜV test. Replacing them with stock has put the readings back to when it was 3 years old (first test) so the calipers etc are OK. If you are a fairly gentle driver, standard type pads are probably the best for everyday use.

If the discs have rusted a little too deeply, they seem to harden (cementite high-spots) and never grip well again, so another thing to consider.

Any lips on your front discs (both sides inside and out?)

5 year old discs + 410 bhp is a heady mix as well.

Regards

Hi Guys - sorry I was having login problems - all sorted now.
The car has been garaged for the last 4 years as I brought a house and you know how that goes with 3 children (money just seems to disappear) Anyway I got it back on the road this May and I changed the rear pads as they were shot and did an oil and filter change.
There is no Lip on the discs at all - since the remap I have only driven it around 2000 miles. Maybe I should change the front pads.
There is no initial bite on the pedal but at higher speed I seem to have to stamp on them - it maybe because of speed it carries, but it just does not seem right to me.
I will try and investigate this weekend if I get a chance - but I do really appreciate the feedback.

Glazed pads, I'm pretty sure. You could also try Ferodo 2500 as well as the others I suggested.

EBC pads are really poor - I had a set of yellow stuff that literally crumbled to bits when I took them out.

Hawk Blues, Pagid Blues, or Ferodo DS2500's - you get what you pay for.

I've also had a rear disc that was warped before - no judder on the pedal oddly enough, but was causing long travel, and also lack of bite / feel.

Agreed on EBC red/yellow/green stuff, they are a very poor performance pad.

We used to sell them a few years back for 20vt's/ Impreza's etc.
Our customers gave nothing but negative feedback on them so we stopped selling them. Far better pads out there for similar money.

That is great guys - I think I will change the pads and bleed the brakes and go from there.
Following pad options are in order of preference
Brembo, Pagid, ferrodo

I'm using the Brembos, obtainable from http://www.racepads.co.uk/.
I used to get Pagid blues from them, great pads but they became very expensive, and these guys suggested I try the Brembos, which I'm quite happy with.

Hmm, interesting about brembo pads.

For 20vt the fronts are 07.B314.39 (Sport) B11.14.170 (Racing) and rears are 07.B315.24 (Sport)

The front Sport pads can be bought for under £120 inc P&P & VAT, a little more than Ferodo DS2500, and as you say, Pagid Blue are double that price!

The front Racing pads appear to be around £300+ however.