Rollcage Fitting

I stripped out the interior on my bravo for its respray, dash out etc, that was actually stuck in and it sounds like what you have here...

its like double sided foam just need to be brutal, but i dont know if you have a fixing there or not as i havent done the coupe dash. i kept pulling it back and forth the it started to losen... try this first, if it starts to losen i am pretty sure its just that foam stuff.

good luck.

also are you rallying this thing or something???

Lunch time piccies

Stripped 1
Stripped 2

You got one shiney knob to grab there begbie Hope you bought some racing gloves for better grip!

Looks all good, when i did the wiring to the rear of my coop i blitzed the floor panels that i got to with wetwipes that had antibacterial in them to get all the gunk off and left them sparkley and a quick wet wash of the carpet where i could as so much stuff comes off them when you hose them down it could be an extra 1kg you save in wieght and it all helps!!!

Well i have gone a little bit more crazy with the weight reduction than I first thought Decided to pretty much remove all of the sound deadening (apart from the firewall) and done about half of the car so far

Pic 1
Pic 2

Your gonna have to tie it down on windy days at this rate.

Did exactly the same thing in my grale, Its suprising how much that stuff weighs. Stick it all in a bag at the end and you'll be suprised.

Heater matrix and all the fan gubbins also weigh a ton. Theres normally metal reinforcing behind the bumpers which can be binned. Hoping to get the grale down to around a ton.

Is that sticky stuff meant to sound deaden?? i hated it when i was under my carpet its so crud and sticks to anything and is a bee atch to get off again!grr stupid things! Looking good though!!

begbie... what you planning at!!!!! ..... those grommets can go

Paul R

I'm with Skins Begbie.........


you're as mad as a hatter muwahahahaha

Have to admire your commitment Begbie ! I've thought about a roll cage for mine, but seeing your photos has put me off somewhat . Might get rid of the sound-proofing as you have done when I have the carpet up though .

Phil

champion !

I don't think the missus would have approved keep it up.

Will it ever get to see a trackday though? Once it's finished, DO NOT attend a Coupe meet first, you know what will happen (again)

It's certainly going to look good when it is fitted, but those gaps are . Might as well buy a weld-in one if you are going to have to do that much modification !

I take it that you will be painting it an appropriate colour before final install, as it look a bit like very expensive scaffold poles at the moment .

Phil

nice gaps beggars - who's going to do the welding? they'd be sensible to cut off the current triangle side parts and make some new bits to take up that egge space - you'll need to clean the area of paint, strip it to metal and prime it with some weld through primer - I used UPOL weld #2 its expensive but meant to be good.

rich

be careful with that cage , it being so far 'out'.

I've heard of a few cases where with the cage in , either
the doors cannot fit and/or the sunroof cannot get on or
something else like that .

cheers and good effort.

Begbie,

are you going to refit the roof lining, rear seats etc?

General Q: is the rollcage meant to come very close (see touch) roof and all bits around?

cheers

I dont have a sunroof so that doesnt bother me

As for rear seats, not possible due to the way the cage bolts to the rear wheel arch, as for the roof lining, im sure i will put it back, but the pain of it is that i cant have my sun visors or rear view mirror, so need to come up with something for that.

This cage fitting is going to be put on hold for the time being due to the extra bits and pieces that need doing, so more updates sometime soon

Fold out curved bits of wood lol

sunvisors is a well known problem... Had to live without them when I fitted a cage in my Seat Ibiza (god that was 20yrs ago...)

Well another week off work to carry on with yet more work on the coupe, so first things first, getting rid of the gaps on the mounting plates, this was simple enough as i ground all the welded nuts on the plate and decided that the rollcage is going to be welded in and not bolted now

Better Gap 1
Better Gap 2

Also a good time to clean up the rear by painting it, so there is same colour throughout the car, rather than patchy yellow / black / grey.. also bearing in mind this is only the first coat

Rear Shelf Before
Rear Shelf Afterwards
Back Bench Before
Back Bench After

You should make a web page (if you find the time ) with all these updates together Begbie.

Did you have an initial post with your plans for this project. I see roll cage and ditching seats, are you going to race it?

Trappy, i'd already thought of that, could keep everything together, as well as hosting video's and stuff that no doubt i will be making etc.. maybe one day in the near future i can do so, but not for the time being

Anyway more pics today, painting and removing more sound deading, fun! Neighbour popped around and is going to do the welding for me, will be done in stages, some thu eve, then fri eve then sat when im not going to be about, gulp!

How i took delivery of the cage last year
Front Half Today
Closer shot of front half
Joining Tubes
Rear Half
Rear Half again
Rear Cross Section
Both Halves Together Finished

Passenger Footwell (not finished)
Drivers Footwell
Lack of Sound Deadening

DANG!! How much are you expecting it to weigh when you've finished mate? 1100 ish kg?

Oh and I hope that fly in the 3rd pic isn't a permanent feature now its dried .

still cant get that gear knob off

Civic, no idea on the finished weight, as long as its 1200kg or lighter, im happy, but the fly isn't a permanent feature, although a couple of greenfly's (but black) have made there way onto the cage.

Joel, no need to take the gear knob off, it's easy to do with the momo ones, unscrew the bottom and remove the grub screw, job done

Nothing to really say apart from the floors are now clear of the residue from the sound deading and the plates have now been welded in place, tomorrow, the cage goes in and becomes a permanent feature

Cleanier Floors
Welded Plate 1
Welded Plate 2

Well the rollcage is in and 8 of the 10 fixing points have been done! 4 have been welded and 4 have been bolted, the other 2 need to be welded tomorrow along with the door bars.

Painted and In!
Welded to plate 1
Welded to plate 2
Roof bolted
B Pillar bolted

Now the next problem that has been discovered is the doors require a fair bit of force to shut them. The passenger side isnt too bad, just a slightly hard push to get it to close properly, but the drivers side, oh dear, let's just say the door card is going to need to be trimmed / cut / butchered to clear the B pillar bar, which is also resulting in the door being pushed out slightly at the bottom.

Bar touching door card
Door pushed out

interesting job begbie that must have taken some serious designing and time,that welding looks a bit rough like, bet its solid now though?

er beggars, you got a grinder? tidy up those welds.

Dump the door cards and put a sheet of carbon look sheet in place, with a cut out for the handle, and a webbing loop for a close handle.

I think I see the difference, but perhaps not worth the cost tho eh beggars
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/sediciRich/IMG_0038.jpg

Whats the position with weld in and bolt in roll cages and the MOT.Is it legal and MOT Legal to have one in the car?

Here in Ireland its not allowed to have a weld in roll cage in the car.It will fail the NCT (National Car Test).

We just about get passed with a bolt in half cage over here/

Over here its ok, Even the WRC have Mot's as some events consist of public roads.

carbon look you fool!! much cheaper

rich

very nice.

it'll be interesting to see how the handling of the car
changes with this amount of stiffening.

cheers.

3 months on and a bit of time off work over the festive period has got me back outside to actually put the dashboard back into the coupe and clear the spare room out of the centre console etc..

Now i knew that the dashboard would have to be cut up a bit, but not quite to the extent i have gone. There is about 2.5" off the top / side of the dash to get it to slide past the front A bars, then the small heater vents for the windows needed to be chopped, the centre air vent which does the front window and side vents needs a bit of trimming (because the angle of the dashboard when going back in is different, things haven't gone back the same way it came out) and had to do a bit of trimming on the crossmember.

Drivers Side
Passenger Side
View from the front window
Cross member modified
Drivers side dash
Upside down dashboard
Centre vent trimmed
Window heater trimmed

So still a bit of work to do, i need to put the brackets that hold the dash to the cross member back on (these had to be removed and chopped up) to allow fitting, then put everything back on the dash, centre console, carpet (front only) then i might be near finishing the interior

Just out of interest - why are you bothering to put the whole dash back in?

Have you crossed the point where you wonder whether it has been worth the effort?

Am i not allowed to still have a glove box, a normal-ish dash, heater controls and stereo?

Don't ask me

Nice work Beggars, good to see it coming along now.

You could have cut your dash a bit straighter, but never mind.

Nice work Begbie ! Look forward to seeing it in the flesh at a track sometime next year .

Phil

Looking fairly tidy beggars, not as texas chainsaw massacre as i'd thought.

rich

Seems almost a waste to spend all that time, money and effort to then blow it up a week after getting it back on the road

And a couple more, just trail fit of the seat and 3" 4 point harnesses :

Offside
Nearside

Door bars are painted and now fitted, doorcards chopped up slightly, the centre light pod is now in at the top (albeit needed trimming due to it fouling on the bar running along the roof) rear view mirror is in but had to make an extension bracket, no idea what im going to do about the sunvisors, oh well

Drivers door
Passenger door
Passenger side again
Butchered door card
Butchered door card 2

butchered indeed
I'd personally bend the crossmember ever so slightly to avoid all this butchering around the speaker grille

When is the engine getting in there then?

V.

After a quick search I came up with a few solutions

Option 1
Option 2 (and these are more your style)

comeon Jimbo, lets face it you don't need sunvisors up there, you don't have enough of the basic ingredient-the sun

Serious, Bebgie most of the race prepared cars I've seen didn't have visors. Which is indeed a problem in your case with the sun running low for long periods of time...

V.

looks good, minimal cutting really.

rich

I reckon it looks bloody good

Is it gonna be road legal?

Yep, will be road legal

It really does look the business and I dare say this could be the best handling coupé once it is finished with some serious power to boot

Having seen the amount of work going into the front part of the rollcage.
I was thinking about cutting the front legs off the front half of rollcage to save removing the dash.
Then fitting the front part down in through the dash,then fit some joining collars like the rear cage to front cage ones, to re fit front legs.
After which a few bolts and welds to secure.

I will be having a professional welder helping.Not that he knows it yet

Great thread Alexis by the way.

Holy thread resurrection Batman!

As the thread has been resurrected I may as well ask a question - is it possible to refit the rear seats with the cage in place? I am tempted to fit one for hill climbing but want to stay in the ckass which requires a full interior to be fitted, although it doesn't have to be usable.

THIS imo is what this club is about!

I've begbie a shout mate because I can't remember if he still has his fitted either that or look through the pictures on here there must me one some where.


As for cutting the front legs and welding them back on this could be a good idea but may have trouble with clearance when it comes to welding them back on depending where you cut.

Either way should be good to see it done so all the best mate

I would say yes,but be prepaired to butcher the seats extremely.

Got to agree with Joe on this. It could be possible, but you would have to cut up the seats quite a bit, as the rear part of the cage mounts on the rear wheel arches, which is what the seat / rear trim covers.

Joe, whilst the idea sounds feasible, I think you would lose some of the integrity / strength in the front legs and god forbid if you were in an accident, what would happen to the front legs?

Yes its crossed my mind about an accident. But as the cage is joined in the middle by an over tube i was hoping that a similar join or a stronger one would be ok.

I will chew it over with Joe at some point.

I guess if the cut is braced and sleeved then it should be as strong or even stronger in that area than before due to the extra material. She what the welder has to say

What Cage are you going for? An OMP off the shelf item or full custom?

I have an OMP cage,the same as begbie.
Just given it 2 coats of red oxide.

I will do some trial runs with varous lenths of wood to try and work out where the cut should be.

Not sure,but i am thinking about trying to find a way of cutting just one leg off.

Hopefully i will have a play about with it next week.

I wouldn't cut anything. You want to keep as much strength in the cage as possible.

I'll be buying a cage for mine after Xmas, and wouldn't consider cutting any of it. You only have to search for cage related disasters from poor fitting etc to know not to touch them!

I understand your concerns Tom. I have the same concerns. Thats why i will be consulting with a proffessional welder.

What's your thoughts on the cage being in two halves?

I suppose theres not a lot that can be done with that. Im pretty sure the cage complies (ied) with motorsport regs if installed and inspected so should be ok.

Like I say Ive not ordered mine yet so cant comment much further until I get it.

I would just whip the dash out, fit the cage and then refit as in this thread.

Get some pics up - always interested to see a project!

Thanks for the replies, I thought that would be the case. If I go ahead I will try to get some cheap seats which won't matter if they are hacked about - that has to be allowed in the regs but what I can 't do is not have the interior in place.

Andy have a good look at Begbie's photo's. You will so what is stripped out and what wont go back in.
B pillar covers/grab handles is something that may not go back in.

But i imagine that you can cut about all the stuff to make it look as though the interior is in there.

Heres a thought..
What if you cut down all four legs just alittle bit to avoid rubbing against A pillars and roof. Take out the complete dashboard and cut like on Begbies car, get your welder to mod the center pillars to clear the doors, get a upolstery shop tu mod rear seat (you can have zippers on outside of bars)
Lay down new sound deadening, get your upolstery guy to lay seem around edges where the pillars are etc. With a bit imagination and fiddeling about you can do this. May the force be with you

Merry christmas!

@AndyPS

I have several interiors, and several rear cards - some are shabby, but would be good for experimenting.

You can have some for free if you can collect

Thanks Nigel, when I get to cage stage I'll get in touch.

I am just starting to get ready the area's for welding the mounting brackets in place.The white mastic is stubborn stuff!

The angled pieces of metal on the bracket really are poorly attached by just using a tiny spot weld on the corners.

I gave it a tap and it started to bend. So i think the next job is to strenthen the bracket before i weld it to the coupe.

A drill mounted wire wheel is what you need, I've been removing that from my car today!

Its all off now. Cage is in but not welded in yet.

I have a few bits to do to get it to sit right in the morning.

I will post a few pics at some point.

Pics pics pics :-)

I managed to get the cage totally ready for welding yesterday.

There was a fair bit of cutting invovled. But i am reasonably happy with the result and i think i can glue some bits back in later.
This pic looks as though i took to much out(nearside) i did this to allow the driverside cage leg to get around the corner of the dash. So there we are,allredy for welding. It has taken me about 3 days to get this stage. Its a job i did with mixed feelings really. With cutting the dash out and removing the interior know that there is no going back to my nice comfy coupe. But i get great enjoyment on track and i am really looking forward to getting the coupe to its next stage of development.
Harness fitting is the next job.

I cant see what your thinking of cutting but my professional advice is do not cut anything. Especially a front leg or any part of the main structure. (Hoop.front legs.rear legs.screen tube)

If you change the design of any type of homologated cage then its homologation will be void. And more importantly without professional advice on fittings the cage will likely not be safe in a crash.

I run a motorsport fabrication company specialising in custom rollcages. If u want some advice mail me info@nicksonmotorsport.co.uk

I am likely to be making a cage for my 20vt soon as I am turning into track car. I will post pics up of the process on this forum. For anyone interested in buying a cage I could fabricate more than one.

Have a look at my website www.nicksonmotorsport.co.uk

hope me posting this is ok with mods. Im happy to do a group buy through forum if required. I am a 20vt owner and not just looking to sell. I just thought I would offer professional advice on cage fitting etc as its my buisness.

Nick

I got the cage in without having to cut it anywhere.

Hi Nick

Some nice looking cars you've worked on there I'm not too far down the road from you either if you need to have a poke around mine to get some idea's for your 20vt.

might take you up on that mate, would like to have a spin in a coupe with some decent power!

i spent 2 hours this eve stripping the interior of the car. literally got everything out bar the dash.

will start fabricating cage mounts and seat rails soon, as and when i have time. got the horrid job of removing the sound deadening at some point. always a nightmare!

shall i start a project thread? couldnt see how to do it?

cheers
nick

Nick, I've given you permission for the project area. Drop me a PM and I'll tell you what to do and possibly arrange for me to pop down and see you

Nick if you give the sound deadening a tap with a heavy masonary chisel ( no hammer)it just shatters off. Try to get the floor to resonate like a drum.
Odd akward bit but not to bad a job really.

i have done it many times before, some stuff comes off in chunks like you say when hit with a hammer, also helps if its very cold.

other stuff is a nightmare and very strong/soft and has to be heated and removed with a scraper, which always leaves a residue which can be a nightmare to clean off afterwards.

Meths worked fine for me cleaning that residue off

Brake cleaner and a wire wheel has sorted mine out, could eat my dinner off of it at the moment!

Are these seats normal fiat recaros does anyone know? I need something like these with harness strap holes.

Nah, they were part of the Carreli group buy seats a long time back

Any news Nick? Will you make a roll cage for the Coupé?

Here are some photo's of the rollcage instalation.