turbo upgrade

What you guys reckon i should get?

RSR, RS 0.64? RSR with a bigger trim?

Ross

Modify to an RSR and you'll be good for another 20bhp+ without too much sacrifice

Go for an RS - 0.64.....

What about an RSR with 63 trim?

Ross

As suba said.

It feels good

To avoid starting another thread, would a crap induction kit, stop power at the top end?

Ross

depends on how freeflowing it is. The more restrictive it is the worse for top end, but may improve the bottom end a bit...

BTW my opinion is an RSR is much better than an RS

I was considering an RS, what makes the RSR much better?

It's got an extra letter.

Better spool up.

If you are into that kind of thing, which i get the impression Ross is

I would rather get the torque surge as low down the rev range as possible, but I dont mind if it takes a second to spool up when you suddenly floor it, if that makes sense...

much more responsive, much less on/off. I don't like the RS at all though and having driven cars with both I would always go RSR. I think you would go faster point-to-point 95% of times with an RSR, the only time you wouldn't is in a straight line

which RS cars have you driven John?

I find my RS is very progressive, by the time you hit peak power traction issues have dissapeared.

The RS is good for slow in fast out on track as well, much less frantic wheelspinning exits

exactly as Barbz said to me...he basically TOLD me i was not getting an RS!!!..................he said the fastest `road coupes` he drove where always ones that where `properly sorted` and running RSR`s

ive got an RSR thats covered 3k miles coming up forsale soon with all the fittings and a 3" downpipe

Is your turbo on the way out? If not, leave the fccukin' thing alone!

Thanks for the advice so far.

Ross

That's what I'll be doing until I go forged!

Drove Barbz car with an RS and a one of his customers cars when I was down there. Also driven both the GT28RSR and the GT28R on headwork. The headwork does make the RS less on/off but I think it is a very poor match for the engine. The whole idea of getting a upgraded turbois to match the engines characteristics and I believe the RS would also suit a longer stroke engine better (like the 16VT) than the 20VT engine.

Wheres the best place to get a RSR then?

What did you think of the R with headwork John?

Ross

i think the only way to get an RSR now, is to speak to turbo dynamics or to buy and "R" and then get an "RS" compressor wheel fitted by turbo dynamics or speak to me about the one im selling soon

Ross

Yeah very good. I drove Sheikhs car which was 344BHP at relatively low boost as far as I rememeber.

I think Barbz will still sell you an RSR - email him at torqueitalia@yahoo.co.uk

thats what I had before,bloody good

I think the 28R with headwork is terrible.....

I agree

Ross.....you are losing it.

You have a great car, with plenty of power...why not save that cash and buy a track day toy instead?

(my votes with an RSR if you must)

ross what internal mods have you done mate

Balanced rods and pistons. Its my only limitation.

Ross

pretty big limitation though, you aren't all that far off what is safe with standard internals, and especialy with the headwork moving to an RSR or RS might not be the greatest idea.

I kinda thought that too I didn`t want to say anything just incase Ross popped round and nicked my rods and pistons

Hmmm. I think i'll just more boost!!

Ross

<retro batman>

KAPOOOOW! BANG! ZAP!

</retro batman>

Ah Rossy, I can bring out my catchphrase for you - KABOOM

then we will have 20 threads, asking, why it happened,what caused it,why me,how do I fix it
........................................................................................................................................................................
thats why we luv him !!

I think you should focus on a modification that will add new functionality to your car rather than changing something you already have/

Ever thought of one of these ?

Dont drink coffee!!

Imagine what i would be like if i did???

But in all seriousness, there is nothing i can do, because of the internals??

Ross

start saving for the forged bits

then turn the boost up.

Or do what they do in Finland and turn the boost up anyway

tea machine?

...... and have the cash waiting for a re-build just in case it's needed....

Thanks Si.

Ross

agree with suba on this, its much nicer the way he is going about it by buying all the parts he needs/wants and having a rebuild when it suits him!

the other way is what happened to me! car dies, wait for the engine to be stripped down before you even know whats wrong with it, which was the pistons! spend weeks trying to find a good deal on pistons/rods! then having to send samples away (including US) and having them to design or confirm they are the correct ones! then having to wait 6-7 weeks for the parts to be made and delivered!

the car broke down mid sept, and it was beginning of Jan before the cylinder block could get bored out and get the ball rolling!

also having to pay out £2500 within only a few months over the christmas period put quite a strain on my finances!

but sure it will all be worth it

Seriously Ross - I've thought about squeezing another 20 bhp out of my setup with cams or a turbo change.....but I know that my car is running perfectly right now, as i've pushed it hard etc. It's just not worth the risk IMO, if it does let go you'll end up in tears if you can't afford to rebuild it straight away. I've got all the bits for a big power built and for going forged ready and waiting apart from a turbo....when I go for more I'll go there in one one go.

I also wont be going for more grunt until I'm satisfied the handling is as good as it can possibly be, which is coming along nicely at the moment.

Yeah it is always better to plan the bits in advance so that you don't have to take your car off the road for as long as well.
I'm building someones engine up at the moment who has invested the time in getting all the bits together in advance in effect like forged pistons, rods and tubular manifold etc. Although he did take his car off the road to drop the engine it probably wasn't necessary. There are lessons to be learnt from this as his block was too worn to take 82mm pistons it needed an overbore so you can't even always assume that you can fit them in situ.

so, in your advice john, if planning a rebuild would it be worth getting 82.5mm pistons and having a rebore in the plan from the start???

just curious

Personally I would go 83mm if I was overboring. Usually blocks are ok to drop forged pistons straight into but it isn't always the case so it is a lottery really. If you are planning a forged build I would do it as a seperate project and then swap engines. That also then leaves you with a complete working engine worth something to sell rather than a pile of bits most people won't want/

Whats the main danger to the internals at over 350bhp? Heat? Wouldnt proper fuelling be able to combat it?

Ross

you're dying for a bigger turbo aren't you ross

Bending rods, rod bolts shearing, ringlands breaking.. blah blah blah..

thing is if a rod goes, it could be bye bye engine

Stnd rods are good for 340lb/ft as Nigel has shown.

Ringlands.... are they forged when u go to forged??

Ross

did Nigel not take his torque down to 320 to be on the safe side?

Nigels rods are good for 340ft/lbs, but not all rods are the same. Iain unfortunately had rods that broke and blew a big hole in the block. He was/is running an RSR.

Forged pistons are stronger by the nature of the manufacturing process which means the ringlands will take more pressure before they break.

Mines are the same as nigel, as they are balanced and from barbz aswell.

Ross

What Kenno meant, that you can never tell if all std rods are the same

Im with suba on this, spending more money on a turbo thats going to be restricted by the engine internals and that would gain you only 15-20hp is not good £ per HP value.


Handling and brakes are far higher up on my todo list, would much rather spend 2k on a big brake conversion than getting any more HP and anyway, if you wanna compete properly in 1/4 mile events, go get a scooby

Lol@akeme.

Im buying handling mods aswell at the moment. Many irons in different fires

Ross

and if you want to win go get a sky line/supra although whats that got to do with anything lol

Ross - the torque and bhp rating of the standard internals is a guide only, and with the variances between rolling roads taken into account you are never sure. Sure Flea and Doctorfrag have run over 350 bhp on the standard internals, but they both ran aquamist.....

I know you want someone to say that your engine will be fine if you upgrade to a bigger turbo, but maybe it will - maybe it wont.

don't forget one of those cars is now having a rebuild due to the pistons not being up to it

Thanks Si. Its a gamble i know.

I even called Barbz today and spoke to him.

He's doing well and gives his regards to everyone.

He basically said there is no way to tell aswell.

He said that he's seen engines running 310lb/ft and run well for ages but there is others that have let go.

Ross

Yeah that is in my mind aswell.

Ross

You selling that GT28R anytime soon then?

I'm sick of journal bearing turbos, I'm on my 3rd one in 9 months (new rebuild) and it's just started smoking

go for it h2ypr it gives u a good resaon to do a rebuild when the engine blows .

but what if a rod goes and takes out more than just a rod? It will add quite a bit more to the already large bill!

what is your final target power figure? if you are going to go for a GT2871R then you will obviously push the car to around 400bhp! so then the standard internals almost certainly won't be up to it! so you might aswell get the internals done before the turbo change! It's not as if your car is a slouch in the meantime!

but if you are going for RS/RSR then maybe you might get away with it! like suba says, you might not!

trust me on this, it isn't nice for something to go and have a massive bill staring you in the face with no prior notice and also to have the car off the road for such a long time!

I totally agree with you Mark. My car was running around 350BHP and eventually one of the pistons fell apart. I remember talking to DoctorFrag after he sold his car and we were saying that my car was currently the most powerful car with sdtandard internals.... And sure enough soon after it let go!

If you get a GT28RS, make sure you don't map it agressively, and I would not go for more than 300bhp.

However, after my rebuild I should have a 450+bhp coupe

Thanks for the advice guys.

I think I'm just gonna save for forged and then change it all at the same time.

Ross

Question.

RSR inlet is 3"?

Now i have a TI SIP. Is this 3"? Presumably the gt28r is a smaller inlet. Did the TI SIP come with a reducer hose?

Ross

hello,

In France, lot20, regt20 and others french guys are running GT28 R or RS since 1 or 2 years with no problems...
at 1,4 1,5 bar boost>>> (300 to 328 cvx on RR).
(and permanent runs on Friday and saturday)

well an RSR is an R with an RS compressor wheel so why would the inlet be any different to that of an R?

*EDIT*

Weird i dont think mine had a 3" inlet...

Yes.


Shouldn't be. Sell it and get a non tapered SIP from ProAlloy

I`ve got a rsr with a tapered TI sip,just get shot of the `humped hose` that fits the r and get a hose that goes from 2 1/2" (think thats the sip size) to 3 "..........I was unsure if thsi would cause a restriction,but when i asked Barbz,he told me this is what Marcus ran ,think he got about 380 bhp

think I got mine from Rallye Design, just checked mine internal sizes 61mm to 79mm

my advice for what it`s worth, go for forged internals,it will save you money in the long run,and means you can stop worrying about it going BANG (within reason)and concentrate on making it going faster