turbo trim sizes

whats the trim size for the standard 16vTurbo engine, thining of buying a t3 but with a 60trim size for 600pounds brand new, wich would be the difference with a gt series?

T3/50

get a super60 trim if possible like me

jejej ok eldinho but wich is the difference with the GT series?does the GT give more power?

yes a GT series will give more power but isn't a straight fit. far from it!

ok , so the T3/50 replaces the original turbo , thats great if i dont have to do any mods to it to fitit, 600pounds new im going to see if i can save some money to buy it otherwse ill see how much a second hand one costs

is this it?
http://www.spoolinperformance.com/garrett-super60-p-33.html?osCsid=a5c3f3ea83d169
imagine it will fit the 16vT

what hp could I get by chainging my standard turbo to the T3 but 60trim ? what differnece in power is there? if its not much maybe it would be best to buy a GTseries

If you got a normal journal bearing turbo and had it to the same spec as a GT series turbo, they will both make the same power, the only difference is the boost threshold (spool up / lag of the turbo) that the GT would come on boost earlier.

you can get T3 turbos with ball-bearing cores, they've been around for donkeys. Just 16vt owners love their old technology turbos

my problem is that im not an expert and to save money I try do do everything myself on the coop so I think its best I change it for a bigger T3 trim a 60trim because its much easyer to fit dont really want to many complications.
do you guys now were I could buy a cheap T3 with60 trim?
the cheapest I can find is 650 pounds

and Begbie how do I get my turbo to the same specs has the GT ?

http://www.lanciahf.eu/dossiers_turbo.html

i can get you a super trim60 if you like, 700€ an thats with tthe shipping

crg - do you know how to read compressor maps? I'll send you both to show the difference if you like.

very basically super 60 trim would be in the thick of it's power around 4500rpm and will have run out of breath by just over 6k

the factory 50 trim, is in its best power (most efficent) at 3.5k and out of breath over 5k

so then what do you recomend must I stay with my standard turbo? because i would like to get now about 280hp , if i could get more o less power with the standard turbo then i think its not worth changing to a bigger one just fit new seals in and thats it.
and for the compressor maps im not an expert but I will understandthem anyway my dad is an expert mechanical engineer so he can help to.

and dink is that the cheapest? i would have to wait if thats the case only have 500 euro for the moment.

I busy waiting for the RR to be done but i have to wait for the 4 of june because they are full till then.
att the moment i have a evochip ,acdelco bleed valve,forge006,and cat bach peco exhaust, and waiting for next week end to do the fuel pump wiring mod, and maybe if theres time to do a decat. I imagine i should get with all this about 230 to 240hp but like I said till june wont be able to tell.

saint, I think 4500rpm is a bit late, maybe thats what the compressor map shows but the power comes in easily before 4000rpm, probably around 3600rpm! holds over 1 bar all the way to the limiter!

crgracing, i doubt you would get 280bhp without serious mods such as headwork, etc. 260bhp max really

jejej ok . and with the T3 60 trim could I get 260bhp?

i got 260bhp with t3super60, full blueflame exhaust, ebc, evochip, 3bar fpr

but you have a 20vT dont think I could get 260bhp with a 16vT its 30hp diference between both coupes on standard basis or dosent it afect?

i have a 20vt and a 16vt

jajajaj thats unfare!! and wich one as more power?
what do you recomend me eldinho?

the T3 with 60 trim will be ok then ?

the 20VT has slightly more power not at the moment though because its got no engine in it

it really depends on how much you want to spend and what your "final" output target is!

well for the moment im busy saving for 18"rims new shocks and bigger turbo, after that I really dont now

have you got any other mods?

evochip ,acdelco bleed valve,forge006,and cat bach peco exhaust, and waiting for next week end to do the fuel pump wiring mod .
this is what i have.

your right eldinho, I was looking at the maps. Likely didn't explain myself well - it will come in earlier than 4500rpm but it is most effcent at those revs.

260bhp is max on standard turbo really.

Its up to you I went straight up to something larger that can support more power than a super 60, ie a 350bhp turbo

then wich cheap turbo do you recomend me and if its posible a direct fit , and for about 280/290bhp ?
what turbo do you think is more suitable Saint?

cheap but best quality, dont wont any crap for my coop

These two don't go together in the same sentence

I havn't got enough experience with those smaller T3's, PM me your email and i'll send you a file to help you choose - it's over 5mb though so likely too big for hotmail.

I know Vas runs a cosworth T3/T4 but you would need to ask him what the specs are.

ok saint thanks PM sent.

Saint the info you sent me is great.
for what i understand its quite obviouse that the GT gives more power, than the T3 and more power at high revs,
still got to look at it very carefully before i buy anything

just check a few thing out.
and I have in mind 4 types of turbos.

a)T3 60trim 250bhp
b)T3/T4E, 50 trim stage II turbine +400bhp
c)T3/T4E, 60 trim stage III turbine 500bhp
d)T3/60-1, 60 trim 550bhp.

does this mean that i can get that hp with those turbos , obviously with other mods, but just cant figure out if they are direct fits. they are all 4 bolt on only that the b,c and d are 2,5" 4 bolt would it still be a direct fit ?

It's not quite as straight forward as you have said

fitting straight onto the manifold is the inlet flange, all of the turbos above are T3, the factory is T3 so they will all fit that side.

On the exhaust side the 16vt has a 5bolt outlet flange so no 4 bolt will be a straight fit

Those horsepower figures you quote are therotical maximums if everything else was up to the job. you could get a 1000bhp turbo but it will only make as much power as the rest of the engine will allow and the bigger the turbo max BHP generally (very simplistically) the slower it is to spool (more laggy) - a 1000bhp turbo would never spool on a 2l coupe as the motor is too samller to produce enough exhaust gas to drive it - ie total lag

Also the bigger the turbo the more likely you will have surge issues, this is were the motor can't use all the air the turbo is pumping and the turbo stalls

the is a heap to know about turbo sizing - your best bet is to go with something known by others, I only know a little and have been reading up for years

a) - not a bad choice for under 300bhp only slightly bigger than factory
b) - quite big for a standard motor, will likely surge at low rpm without headwork - 3500rpm to 8000rpm turbo - one I have considered
c) - bigger again and needs all bolt ons and a motor that can rev - no good under 4000rpm (will surge based on maps)
d) Marcowind has one of these on his 500bhp 4wd coupe which is near 10sec 1/4miles but the motor is race spec

AS I say see what has worked for other people and follow that

if you want over 300bhp get an integrale evo turbo - I can't remember which model (there are 2, one the same as the coupe and a bigger one - you will have to check on a grale forum) which will take you to 320bhp+ and are a known unit for the grales, think it is based on a t04b wheel

the problem is that I would have to change, pistons , rods etc...and really dont feel like doing all that hard work now, with the T3/T4E, 50 trim stage II turbine would I need to reforce the engine?

its a bit stupid having 230-240 hp and get the T3 60trim and only get to 250 if I could get to 280hp with that ill be happy

buy it in the us ! http://www.atpturbo.com ! (super60 is about 625us $ -> ~400 euro / ~305 pound ! )

but why installing a 30years old turbo when the time is going on ? gt28r should be your goal . sure , a super60 is nearly plug&play but these turbos are realy out of date ..

thats were i got most of the info form atp and very cheap too, but just wanted 280hp enough for a fornt wheel drive.
could I hit the 280 hp with the T3 60 trim ?
like I sayed in the other post dont want to take my engine apart to much head ake. what I whant is the max power posible without openning the engine.

i think you could get 280bhp with a t3super60

super 60?wich one would it be eldinho out off thees four ?
a)T3 60trim
b)T3/T4E, 50 trim stage II turbine
c)T3/T4E, 60 trim stage III turbine
d)T3/60-1, 60 trim

a, c and d are 60 trim but super ?

a)

this one should it be: http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/mercha...tegory_Code=TBN

ok noise are you 100% sure ? just before I start to order.

do I use the standard turbos wastgate on it ?

no but it should be the super60 =)

german shop : http://www.ls-cartec.de/turboladergarrett.htm

ill chek it out now

the only thing I need is the turbine and kompressor trims of the standard 16vT turbo to compare some details
thanks

well just spoke to ATP and ive been tolled to use the T3/T4E 60 trim , and no need to reforce the engine .
you can get up to 500bhp wth this turbo and withe T3 super a maximum of 350bhp . obviously with the necesary mods.
so im going to buy the T3/T4E 60 trim for 695$ and the wastgate all for 780$ not bad att all.
OPINIONS PLEASE

so has it got an external wastegate?

t3/t4 e ? to much for an original engine ..

ATP sayed that its not necesary
thats exactly what I tolled the guy over the phone and he said no need for new pistons or anything unless I whant to use over 300bhp , the difference with the super 60 is that tme maximum hp I can get form it is 350hp and form the T3/T4E up to 500bhp.
thinking of taking the T3/T4E for if in the future whant to get more than 280bhp

what do I do?

internal wastgate like original turbo

If you only want 280hp then why are you bothered about the turbo flowing up to 350hp? The T3/T4E will be significantly more laggy than the T3 super.

Well not laggy but it'll have a higher boost threshold, but you know what I mean...

ok thanks blueman .
im coonvinced now T3 super is my choice.

You have made your decision I see. IMHO the T04e-60 trim is too big and surgy for a standard 16v

Based on maps it won't work below 4500rpm at 1.2bar without being below the surge line, the T04E 60 trim would poor choice IMO, it hasn't got a very good map anyway.

well I´m having master power 810019 turbo ( 58mm compressor / 56mm turbine.48 housing. same as garrett t04e 60trim ) spools: 1 bar 3100rpm. ( tested on my friends Q4 ) no surge. standard head.

I'll throw up the compressor map shortly, but tested is better than any map so I stand corrected

Sorry - you will have to trust me this is the map and the most right is (blue) is 8000rpm, yellow is 6000rpm etc, the aqua blue is 5000rpm (1000rpm per line apart from last which is 3krpm and 2500rpm)

At 1 bar things don't look any good below 4k rpm

Based on 95% ve

T04E 60 Trim map

yep, I know. thats funny, because I have the same thing in my mind, before using the turbo. and also have read same kind of comments on the net ( map shows that surge, but on the real world it wont ) but why is it like that ? I dont know. we have used that turbo on my mates car 6kk . and how about garrett gt40 compressor with 59mm wheel ? I had that on my older car. that spools 1 bar 3800rpm and no surge. also with standard head. seems that some turbo have an extra potential, what comes to the real world surge.

we will take the Q4 on RR this spring/summer, so will let you know the results. first with standard head and after that with using thema non turbo cams ( 239 / 9,5mm )

actually the GT40 82mm 50 trim is more forgiving than the T04E 60 trim according to the maps.

The newer GT series turbos are no doubt more efficent across a wider range. the 82mm GT40 wheel is O.K. above 3500rpm on the map at 1bar which is better than the 4500rpm of the 60 trim

hmm.. heres a link to the master power, that we use :
http://www.partsexpressonline.com/highperformance13.htm
its actually a bit different, than garrett, it has 58/84mm comp. doesnt garrett have 58/75mm

nice info guys.
ive recived a email from ATP and tolled me that they dont have the T3 super 60 because its not made by garret( but theres a nother company that sells the super 60 very cheap )
and that the difference between both is :
T3 60 trim form ATP 31 lb/min,
T3 super 60 35 lb/min
form tuboelements.com for the super 60 its 695$ with waste gate and actuator with the ATP dosent inculde waste gate or actuator.

what about: make new dp and buy this.. master power 802138 ?
http://www.partsexpressonline.com/highperformance3.htm
good for 350hp, with internal gate. 54,1mm compressor and 49,5mm turbine. one result I know is 365hp / 1.35bar on saab 2.3. ( stock engine )

BUY A GT28R !

dont want to take apart the engine now dont have money to change rods, pistons and lot more now , thats why with the super 60 is ok , when I have the money wich wont be this year then ok but not now cant afford so much.

a super trim 60 will be ok, it'll get you to 280hp, and it's not advised to go much over that with a stock engine.

The one i have has a less restrictive turbine wheel with backcut blades to give a bit more top end power it's good for 330hp but that's with 1,7bar

wow 1,7 now thats what i call high or perfect. jejeje

the super 60 is the perfect choise for a stock engine

with a gt28r u'll get your 280hp (with an option to 300), with a super 60 u'll get 260 (maybe 280). so why n0t gt28r ? there is no need to change rood&pistons with 280hp.

i got 260bhp with super60, full exhaust with decat and evochip! so still a few mods to be done which should help get towards 280bhp!

arent these just for 20vt unless you exstensively mod loads of stuff??

If you buy from ATP, you can get it in a T3 flange, then the next thing to worry about is the fitment on the exhaust, as most come with a 5 stud arrangement, but ATP do a 5 stud to 3 bolt converter

like I said before dont wont to have a head ake to change rods pistons and much more thing internaly form the engine.
whant to keep the standard engine and get the max power .
T3 super 60 is the best choice , then in a few years form now ill do something else

than 260hp with the super60 and rr it... it is your car =)

Interesting topic its exactly what i want to know..

So this Super60 is quite out of date and isnt a ball bearing turbo? It says on that link..

"T3 series turbocharger 60 trim. 60 Trim T3 with .48.. 250HP 4 Cyl. Standard T3 4 bolt inlet and T3 5 bolt discharge exhaust" - does this mean its rated to 250hp? so your not likely to see the 280 your going on about?

Where as the GT28R is a roller bearing turbo.. Does the GT28r fit the coupe without any modifications other than the 5-3 exhaust adapter plate????


You may also want to read this.. http://www.atpturbo.com/root/technicinfo/gtvst.htm

That makes alot of sense as to why you should head in the GT28R route.

Anybody able to confirm if im right/wrong about the GT28R?

anybody?!