better cam belt?

hello, I want to know,if somebody use some "better" cambelt on his 2l 16v engine...

I´m currently using standart Gates belt, but I´m bit worried about it after one catastropfic cambelt failure -half of 173 teeth weren´t on belt,but somewhere under the car,and all 8 ex. valves were bent-I could say that I´m lucky man, because this failure occured on tickover (so after-effects could be worse if it was happend near redline..)..in my case the belt is more stressed because of competition cams...

I don´t want to make 1" belt conversion as mr.Croft do on 8 valve engines,or 16valve conversions, but I want to use better cam belt - I´m thinking about Piper Cam belt,or similar product from another companny but I don´t know whether better cam belts with standart dimensions for 16v engine are made...Anybody knows?

Nothing wrong with the standard Gates belt, so not sure why you want to change? Maybe it was time for a change of belt, hence why it failed on you?

I gave Guy Croft a Gates belt and asked if this was okay for my application, the answer was yes and he fitted it. If a belt is not up to scratch, it won't be fitted by GC.

I have heard of people fitting a wider belt, but I guess this is the '1" belt conversion' that you refer to.

You have to live with the fact that the 16VT is cam belt "intensive" !!

Mine had a cambelt change twice in 8000 miles due to age, it's not safe to allow one to pass 2 years of age, especially if the car doesn't get used too much. It's not an expensive job on the 16VT, just get it done every couple of years regardless of mileage and you won't go far wrong.

Incidently, I considered the wider belt conversion for my old Integrale but was told it would make no difference to change intervals, the belt conversion, in the opinion of my specialist at the time was to allow for higher power, higher revving Twin Cams, and some of them do rev rather high once worked on!

Always stick with the Gates belt, for the price difference between this and the few other belts available, there is no point in taking the risk.

Oh, and for the above, take it that I mean all belts! No point in doing your cam belt nice and safely and leaving all the others, including the balance belt to take it out when they fail. Lots of people lose the balance belt altogether, but thats covered elsewhere on here.

All the above is just my opinion, please don't shoot me if you disagree

Gareth

Can you tell me more about this 1 inch belt conversion please??

I don't know much about it to be honest, however THIS might be useful!!


Gareth

the 1" belt conversion is avaliable from delta-parts.com it is priced at £375+vat from memory.
If you need any other information, please pm me.

Cheers Tim

I think there is no personal gain to be had by having a 1" belt conversion apart from the extra cost of about £350. If the Greek integrale running 1000whp and 10,000 - 12,000rpm can use a normal cambelt, then go why the extra expense at of going to a 1" belt?

I'm with you there, that's why I didn't bother.

G

Theres huge number of factors why a belt might break. I would be very concerned with the turning torque of the engine see GC's block prep area. I run std belt.

I don´t know why it´s failed -whole set (belt, pulles) was only 1,5 year old belt with only ~5000 kilometers...

turning torques of camshaft and crank are still pretty low (I could turn with engine slightly only by hand - it was sorted during rebuild of the engine 3 years before)

could something have changed? ie bearing issue?

Maybe it was too tight? I find it hard to tension it correctly as it makes a whining noise whatever tension its set to.

bearing issue -hope that no...there weren´t any marks of bearing issue, of course the oil pressure was OK - 2.5-2.7 bar/90°C/900rpm, 4.8bar/90°C/>4000rpm..so there wasn´t much opportunities for some bearing failure

I´m thinking about belt,it could be over tighted..

after lot of searching I´ve found, that wider - 22mm cambelt is available from 1.9TD engines known from bravo/a, AR145/6, tipo.. code: GATES GT 5180 nr. of teeths 173, wide 22mm...it is the simpliest and cheapest replacement for weak one 18mm... especialy on "cammed" engines where it is also much safer to run wider belt

if your engine doesn´t have balance shafts (like mine - shafts removed), only thing what you need to replace is 1.9 TD crank pulley and use wider tensioner pulley

the 18mm belt is not 'weak'

I think if the guy in Greee (Greg) can run 1000wbhp on his integrale using a 18mm belt, then it should be fine for our application

How is your Coupe project comming along?

somebody wrote on GC forum, that this greece guy change belt every 6 miles...I don´t know wheter it´s rumour or truth..

But If you look at another cars with similar power and displacement like 16v NA/Turbo you can see belt with same shape of tooth like 16v/integrale, but notably wider..

for example VW 2.0 16v ABF engine use 1" belt and I could find more engines/cars - the list of that cars could be very long..

they are also kit at Ebay Ebay

But i also use the original once, and changed it every year. (2 hours of work)
/Kenneth

Wow i am blind sorry..... did not see it was linked before.

Cambelt's dont break on their own, there is always a cause from them, and it's nothing to do with power. It's down to faulty maintenance, e.g. not changing a tensioner when changing the cambelt, tensioner goes and cambelt will wear out. As long as things are changed when they are meant to be, then there is no issues

Alexis is perfectly correct, there is nothing wrong with the standard 16v belt system. Proven by several very high power engines to be capable.

Regarding the wide belt kit show above, only at your risk. The crank pulley is a modified one from a Fiat commercial vehicle, the modification involves undercutting the keyway that is part of the pulley unlike the 16v one with it's seperate. This in my opinion remnders it liable to fail, like the 8v integrale pulley someone gave me last week with it's sheared off key. There are loads of other weak points in this products components but you get the idea likely. Why would you sign up for an increase in turning torque even if it was flawlessly made?

Nik

p.s. At the risk of offending the mods on here (I don't wish to so edit if you feel the need), anything that ebay seller retails I can get far cheaper and correctly speced and manufactured along with the products to match, it was afterall me who developed them.