Gt28rs . . . .. . . Tooooo . . . . . . GT3071R

as above states im changing as of tuesday with Nobby's help to the Gt3071r

back down to FC Performance on thursday also for tweaking of the map too only going to be looking towards producing the same figures as now tbh but just by running less boost. but we will see what happens

Just thought id share my next upgrade with you guys.

Good news

What model of GT3071R? The GT3071R-WG 0.64 like mine? Or the bigger with external waste-gate?

its not external and is 0.64

Yeah right

So your not selling up then?

Nope couldnt do it had nice run of work to bring in some pennys.

bring on the

Cool so what about those forged parts? Is it worth going GT3071R on STD internals even with low boost or did you sell the RS before you realised you were gonna keep the car?

well tbh i needed to sell the forged stuff anyway. yeah i think it is worth it as i wont be abusing it and taking the piss running 2bar as i know i be treading on ice but just running 1.3bar should be fine i think if not then hey. . . . hopefully by then i will of saved more money to go forged but i will just have to stump up full price etc.

but im not planning on my car going bang for quite a while. not untill i know i can get it rebuilt straight away anyhow.

So you are going to run exactly the same turbo as mine

GT3071R-WG 0.64 rules!

The only difference is that i'm going to run high boost

guys i want to see movies and pictures of yours car´s running

Have you thought about changing your exhaust for a bigger one Luke,
that with help you make good power with not much boost.

Ben

yeah i have just need to find one and i dont want a really loud exhaust either

Luke - we need to gang up on Paul at Motormech and get him to build a "quiet but characterful" 3" exhaust for both our cars

I need the same - I could do with a bigger bore, but I definitely don't want any more noise that my SuperSprint

It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the GT3071. My GT2871 is now one of two limiting factors (injectors being the other), so I'm wondering what to do next.

Nigel, definatly on the exhaust front i dont mind it being a tiny bit loud when giving it full beans but not really boomy loud on idle low revs its just a bit chavvy IMHO

Yeah as for the GT3071R you never know if its a bit too much for what i want out of my setup the The turbo you have we could do some sort of swap/deal etc. but we will see what gains/losses im gonna see because its not as if i can just put 2bar through it as my std engine will go pop (although matty did )

My fully decatted one wasnt boomy on low revs or idle, but it did get a bit boomy at 3000rpm on the motorway. It was very deep and warbly at low revs but not loud in a chavvy way. chavvy exhausts are just like a normal exhaust tone but with 5x more bass. There is a difference between "deep" and "bassy" - It's quite hard to make a 20VT sound chavvy!

And his engine eventually died, I believe

A engine with standard pistons and rods cannot take 2 bar for any length of time

My needs from my next turbo will be self-contradictory - I need more top end boost with no more lag than I currently have - tall order

The easiest way Nigel would be to simply change the turbine housing to say a 0.86 ousing, unless you already have one ?

This may add some lag, but you are possibly asking two things from your setup.

A larger bore exhaust will certainly help you keep top end, you may find a full 3" will do this without replacing the turbo.

I'd do this step first.

I still have to swap out the 0.64 turbine om my GT3 something ( listed as a MD999 ), as it has NO lag bottom end, but just can't hold more than 1 bar at top end which is costing me tons of power

I cannot even crack the 400hp barrier, and I'm exceptionally lazy !

Luke - if you go for a GT30 then plan for the engine to go in the near future on the standard internals IMO. The only way that I would go for a GT30 would be if I had forged bits ready to go in the car, and the money for an engine build ready and waiting......up to you of course.

With the boost that you have been running I would be suprised if your engine is not running lowish compression - do you know the actual compression figures at the moment?

With my new twin pipe exhaust, I left out one of the rear silencers, this has made the car boomy and chavy at low revs (almost blown exahust sound), but surprisingly on the move and at high speed it just sounds gorgeous, combine nicely with induction roar and turbo noise

Still going to get silenser put back in, at least 55:45 in favour of this move.

Taz - I have the 0.64 housing, which is clearly a restriction when closing in on 400bhp.

However, I'm right on the limits of my tolerance for lag - it starts to spool up soon after 3,000 and is pulling hard by 3,750. I'm not sure I could put up with it spooling another 500rpm later

With the current turbo, I have to get over 100mph in top gear before it spools, meaning that a clearing of outside-lane motorway traffic often involves three downshifts to make any decent progress

Crying out for a sequential twin-turbo setup, I reckon

Or a 2.4 conversion...

actually - forget sequential - time for an enquiry to Turbo Dynamics about a VGT turbo

i had full boost on the gt3071r at 4000rpm and that is with a standard head and a v band adapter

Nigel, you're more than welcome to have a trial in mine with the 3071R with similar mods to you. I'll 99% be at the midlands tunnel run which is near you!

Gonna do a compression test tomoz and check if any change since last test done. should give me good idea of how engine is wearing since been running 1.4bar daily

as for the gt30 being too much for standard internals I know but hey it basically has worked out im swapping mine for a bigger better turbo soo thats why im doing it soo in future when i want more i dont have massive cost of a turbo too buy. as well as forged items

go for it luke i did mate should be reliable at 1.4bar for a while and you will make good power,should see about 370-380bhp with bigger injectors

thing is i dont hardly ever drive on boost believe it or not so say i got it mapped at 1.4bar and it produced 380bhp (for instance) i dont drive the coupe hard at all so the 380bhp would most of the time be wasted as only now and again in teh right conditions eg (slip road onto dual carriage way/motorway) i open her up just to get me to 70mph abit quicker

not like im gonna be going round a track constantly giving it grief.

a little blip now and again should see reliability for quite a while

Suprised no one has done this yet.

Drove a R5 GTT running 1.5 bar with a VGT / VNT setup a couple of years ago. Great fun.

JohnS looked at a twin scroll turbo a while back, and gave up on the idea as there was a lot involved with the work...I'm sure that he looked at VNT options too.

I guess it comes down to how much money you are prepared to throw at the car!

Not sure there is much point in a GT3071R on your car, you can make more power on your current setup with headwork so it seems a pointless exercise.

Nigel, your best option is probably an external wastegate and a decent equal length manifold not a bigger turbo if you want the lag to be no worse.

VGT isn't an option - I've spoken with turbo Dynamics this morning

I'm faced with the traditional choice of better top end taking some bottom-end tractability away

I love the top-end rush of a big turbo, but I'm not willing to suffer any worse lag than I currently get, so it would appear that I may still have my ideal turbo

John - thanks for the suggestions - I know that your transition to external wastegate was rewarded with a jump in power, so maybe this is the way to go - I'll empty the piggy bank to see what's in there

I await Luke's results with eager anticipation...

you could get turbo dynamics to supply you a ported shroud. May make a bit of difference. On my turbo I have one that improves the spoolup by about 2-300rpm I'd guess. basically it spread the whole compressor map so I got both more low-down and more top end out of it. That's how I ended up with a GT3082R with the same spoolup as a GT3076R more or less

Don't really know how the 28RS looks but the 28R has a real mismatch to the Fiat manifold - easily fixed tho.
Maybe that's what you meant John.

valid point, but that's not what I meant. I mean the compressor inlet from the inlet tract/SIP whatever people have.

I thought a ported shroud helped with surge? If anything I was under the impression that it increased spool slightly (as in later in the rev range)?

the gt30 is on tbh its no biggy if i end up finding the gt30 is overkill as to put it. . . . il just sell and get smaller turbo

but untill thursday afternoon after ive been back to leighton for fueling tweaking. i wont know what its like as ive hardly even went on boost earlier today on way home from nobbys due to not knowing how AFR been affected!?

have you ported the wastegate?

you make it sound soo easy no and how would i?

the 3071R has been known to boost spike as the wastegate can't control the boost, this can be cured by porting the wastegate.

You can do it yourself, but I sent mine off to Turbo Dynamics so I knew it was getting done properly (and because I'm lazy)

how much did that cost if you dont mind me asking?

£80 I think, I got the compressor shroud polished whilst I was at it which was an extra £10-15!

luke - is leighton putting you on the RR too? be interested to see a graph if so.

Right. Especially if Luke wants to run low or mid boost

Like Leighton advised me, if you are going to run high boost you don't care about boost creep... but if you don't want more than 1.2/1.3 bar you'll probably need a little porting.

Mine creeps up to 1.7Bar without the porting but that’s with a 3” system. So I can't hold less than 1.7Bar to redline at WOT even if it set the boost to 1Bar. If this is the case with the GT30 with you exhaust then you are in trouble if your aiming for 1.4MAX.

which turbo is that with J?

2871R

Hi,

I don't have any problems with boost creep what so ever with GT3071R-WG 0.86 turbine housing.
With the 0.64 housing I have heard that to happen.

I use Apexi AVC-R and it can handle programmed boost level without problems.
For example at the moment I ran "only" with steady 1.3 bar boost and the variation is only some 0.2 bar vs. set boost value.

-Jari-

The one thing I have never done is port the wastegate, never needed to. This is with a GT28RS 0.86, GT2871R 0.86 & 0.64, GT3071R 0.64 and GT3076R 0.64 which I currently run.

rog, no not booked for rolling road on thursday but will arrange one very soon. Just need to know fueling is perfect for whatever boost my setup allows me to run then after that it will be down to engine holding out. im using blitz boost controller and am pretty sure it will keep good tabs on any serious boost spikes as it will cut boost if it tries goin over 1.5bar so we shall see if it keep cutting my boost i know whats trying to happen.

I know Matty was having problems until he ported the wastegate. Did Fergie not have the same problem aswell? Where has Fergie gone?

That's ok then as Luke has Matty's turbo!

Nigel doesn't get any issues with his GT2871R 0.64, I didn't have any problems keeping the boost down with Westcoupes GT3071R 0.64 either. I would say TurboJ your problem lies elsewhere as that is an extreme case of boost creep!

Panic over!

Who said I have a problem . It is down to the fact that I have a 3" free flowing exhaust. Less back pressure more chance of boost creep. Porting the WG will simply solve this or revert back to my old 2.5" system. My case is a bit extreme but the point I am making is that IF luke does encounter creep it will be a problem whereas mine is fine because I’m mapped to 2Bar.

You shouldn't get it that bad though. I have a full 3" downpipe off the turbo, not a 2.5" tapered downpipe but actual 3" right off the turbo all the way to the decat pipe which is then 2.75"... never had any boost creep, I can run 1bar to the redline.

Oh and that's a 7800rpm redline too!

It does help with surge but it depends on the design if it increases or improves spool. The more old school ported shrouds just move the whole volumetric efficiency of the turbo (i.e. moved the whole compressor map to the right) but there are some modern designs out there that spread it/stretch it.
Mine was proven to improve spool as I did do a before and after.
I wouldn't buy a turbo without it now tbh.
It isn't just a case of polishng the shroud, although that itself can improve spoolup slightly. It is basically adding a seperate port between the compressor cover and where the majority of the air goes in. The designs vary quite widely - mine is basically a totally seperate cone sitting inside the standard shroud.

I think a lot of you are missing a trick with some of the options around the compressor housing - be it porting or the availability of larger compressor housings like the T04S style 0.70A/R housing. It's all well and good being a bolt on king but you can get more bng for your buck if you think a bit more about your options.

This can be a good idea to avoid boost creep too :

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/mercha...tegory_Code=GTH

But something seems to be wrong with this. If this part is exactly like on the pics i think it won't fit on our cars. The "hole" on the housing is going to be in front of the engine And WG will be impossible to fit.

An "opposite" version of this part would be great!

i had know problems with boost creep,i found if i turned my avcr off my car would run 0.7bar to the redline,its all down to your actuator really

I buying Luke's GT28RS and now wondering if it would be worth having any work down to it prior to fitting. What do we think then guys?

trappy, nothing needs to be done to this turbo along lines of porting etc as tbh i dont think it would be worth it too much, but its upto you. this turbo ran 340bhp with no hassel and was hitting full boost by 3600rpm (1.4bar)

Upto you tho

I would'nt think it will be a problem porting it for peice of mind

Wish i could be Ar**d to do mine though

Ben

It's got nothing to do with the actuator or boost controller. It's because the wastegate hole is improperly sized and can’t dump enough exhaust gases. Fitting a free flowing exhaust decreases turbo back pressure and increases the chance of boost creep. There are three solutions to cure boost creep:

1. Increase the exhaust back pressure
2. Port the wastegate
3. Go external WG


Mine is a full 3” all the way, I got the taper chopped out when the exhaust was fitted.
2.75” may still be ok but mine only started boost creeping when I got the full 3” system.

well il be heading off to bristol shortly to Flea's soo we will see what happens today

Jason, have you actually checked your actuator to make sure it is not too tight?

I honestly think you need to look into it as hitting a minimum of 1.7bar at redline is just not normal regardless. There are enough people running these turbos with full 3" systems on coupes and other cars which don't exhibit anything like the boost creep you have. Indeed an extra 0.25" from the cat back is not going to have a significant impact on backpressure.

just go external wastegate and get the noise to boot :-)

I assure you the actuator is fine, if I set it to 1.7Bar it will hit that at about 3250rpmish, if I set it to 1bar it will only start to creep up to 1.7bar at 5500rpmish. It’s not a problem for me infact I don't want it fixed

tweaking has now turned into full remap all will be revealed later

2.0 bar yeh Luke?

nobby dont spoil it for everyone.

have you got bigger injectors or are you still the standard ones

Right well im home finally after doing my chores once back to newbury but anyway. . . i got down to Leightons today with my tools in hand. Had lil chat etc and it JUST so happened that he had brand new set of 440cc injectors sat on the table but they would obviously require full remap wont they?

but its what we spoke about before anyway and i said yeah go for it. (wallet started to cry )

so now im running 440cc's with 3.8bar FPR so plenty of fuel

Leighton mapped my car to 1.2bar, 1.3bar , 1.4/5bar but i have a real bad case of fluctuating boost which is causing the boost to spike to the set limit on blitz eg 1.4bar then its tailing straight off down to nearly 1.2bar right too redline with boost really pulsing between 0.2bar

this turbo should be holding 1.4bar to redline with no worries.
We have ruled out the Blitz controller as it still done it when we quickly tried manual BV .

Sooo me and leighton have put it down to a small boost leak somewhere which i think ive had one for ages anyhow. Im getting on the case of finding it once and for all.

BUT i did get on rollers today also

and i made 356bhp 296lbs 318wbhp thats with boost spikeing to 1.5 but then tailing off very quickly to 1.2bar so it kills the Torque straight away


Also made 338.6 on another run at lower boost than i made same figures at powerstation before.

would put graphs up but dont have a scanner unfortunatly

once boost is held 1.4bar all way to redline think it will definatly make another 15/20bhp and maybe bit more torque.

Overall im happy although days costing me alot more than expected.

Also too add me and nobby done compression test on tuesday and it was 154 across the board give or take 1/2 psi

I'd best get myself a better foot pump then eh Luke

yes buddy but im 99.9% sure its from around the doughnuts area inlet/plenum the leak that is i might pull the car aprt tomoz afternoon check there not spilt at all

Luke sounds very nice figures, bet it drives well. Have you noticed any difference in the lag?
I have the same boost fluctuations as you on my blitz, will get to 1.4bar then fluctuate constantly by 0.2/0.3 bar. I have checked everything and even cleaned out my solenoids (was better for a while) but the same things keeps happening, however mine does stop with a prv (perfect boost just abit laggier).
I am just going down the route of faulty controller so i am going to get a gizzmo next week.

If you find the cause let me know it might be my problem also.

Ash

Luke - what gain settings are you running on the Blitz?

EDIT - forget that - just re-read your earlier post - it does it with a manual bleed valve

my guess is that its wastegate related - possibly down to lack of backpressure from the bigger turbine housing

hello luke you 100% have a boost leak and my leak was coming from one of the rings inbetween the plenum and inlet manifold.

well done Luke, nice to hear the engine is still healthy with the compression test.

cheers mark, i hear your heading to leighton in the near future

im chuffed with compression as the couoe has been modified for nearly 50,000miles now. (higher than standard that is. sure ruben/rog can back this up of exactly how long.

sure am, should be in the next week or so. Can't wait

If i understand correctly you have only 1.2 bar when you are in the high RPM... so 356HP are reached with only 1.2 bar Great results luke!

I'm sure you can make 370HP with 1.4 bar

you dont know at what rpm he made the 356bhp could have been when it was at 1.5 bar good results luke especially if the turbos not holding to redline should be alot better when it is.

yeah its only spikeing to 1.5var and tailing straight off, will put more details up tomoz

Yes, that was only a guess. Luke said 1.5 bar was only a spike so i can imagine the boost tails quickly after that and stays at 1.2 bar when max power is reached

I'm probably wrong... but i will be happy for Luke if not

It's a shame about the boost leak, I noticed it straight away when turning up the boost as you can actually feel it when driving with the engine and power pulsing.

Generally though the car is driving nicely It was also mapped to 0.8bar which is actuator boost, so four settings on the Blitz. At lower boost it doesn't pulse so it does suggest there is a leak which is exposed as the pressures increase.

I think with a steady boost delivery it should gain another 15-20bhp, so 370bhp+ is the target. It was certainly making more power as the boost was increased, plenty of headroom in the turbo

Since you last drove the car with the old turbo did the boost fluctuate?
How much boost were you running before?
And you have only changed the turbo since then, nothing else?

yes j only changed turbo, injectors. its definatly a boost leak from somewhere which needs to be under x amount of pressure to cause the leak as leighton says. the old turbo did do it too but obviously the rs was expected to drop off to redline so i didnt really notice as much.

Luke - the intake doughnuts can split quite badly, and you can't really see the split when the car is ticking over - however, I reckon as soon as there's some decent boost, the split will be dumping loads of air

Remember mine?



The difference was considerable after they were replaced

yeah i remeber well im gonna spens afternoon trying to sort out the reason

Any chance of a dyno print out this time Luke?

you can do if someone gives me a scanner to scan them il have to get to my mates house sometime over next few days use his scanner

it might be eaier if you ring the rolling road and get them to send it you via email!!

Nick

Could you can take a picture of the graph and put it up that way?