Remapping

Is this the right section? Maybe it should be in Tuning?

Could someone please explain the basics here? What are companies offering when they offer to 'live remap' your car for a few hundred quid? Is it any different from putting one of the Gtec1 chips in? What about boost control, and monitoring?

The basics would be appreciated - thanks.

Talk to this guy: http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=230

personally I would and will be taking my coupe to Flea for mapping to be honest.
very helpful, even gave me a shopping list when i told him what i wanted to achieve

Lots of info on it here:
http://www.remapping.co.uk/

Basics:
Live map is totally tailored to your car and what your engine wants to give off-boost/on-boost (as flea has seen in his time mapping even exactly same setups on engines that both give good compression) but will both react totally different on the road and give different figures.
Gtech1/2 chips are off the shelf items and are universal as such as there for all 20vt's so there made moderatly so pretty basic on the detail side of fueling boost etc. there limited by the fact they are off the shelf jobby's.


Price: Yeah to be honest the difference in price can be upsetting as if your like me and at a stage 4 remap with FC performance and you have to keep getting it redone as you upgrade Turbo/injectors etc it can work out exspensive. (think me and nigel should have points card with Flea as weve been back and fourth soo much.
Best way to do live map is make sure your where you want to be at with all your mods then get it "live mapped" soo its just a one off exspense. £145-£400
Plus side of Gtech 1/2 chips is there as cheap as chips £25-£50 (forum prices range from)

Difference:
"live map" is totally tailored to the best your car and its mods can give so its going to be better everytime also its more detailed and the all round performance can be tweaked to provide much better off-boost drivability aswell as on-boost. with live mapping you will get perfect fueling all the time right throughout rev range and peice of mind knowing this.
Gtech 1, might seem alot better than taking factory chip out and putting this in but it is recommended that you get the car RR'd straight away to check AFR as alot of people see different fueling graphs with gtech 1's. it gonna feel better straight away due to it upping the boost so you get that bit more of a kick but ive found gtech chips to be very on/off, when on boost yeah great but off-boost is not soo great.

Boost control, tbh this all comes down to what boost your running and if its quite high or even just low boost id still recommend fitting aftermarket boost controller to sort out the control & monitoring of the boost as it makes the boost much smoother and again can all be tailored to how you want your car when live mapped to get fueling spot on etc.

+ & -

Live mapping + Tailored to your car, peice of mind knowing its been done on the road where your car spends most of its time and not been mapped on rollers under different loads etc, Grin factor after picking your car back up from being Live mapped, Fuel ecomny better, Off boost performance Sooo much better,
Live mapping - can be pricey if back and fourth as i said earlier, annoying if you live in scotland and Flea lives in bristol, Annoying when flea talks you into upgrading injectors and you need full new remap (joke flea )

Gtech 1 + Cheap upgrade when you want that little bit more than the factory setup gives, Easy to install yourself so only outlay is price of chip,

Gtech 1 - its advised you get the car on the rollers to check fueling once fitted so another say ££30-50 ontop of price of the chip straight away. Boost spikeing/fluctuating issues is common from gtech 1 in tuning section only for somepeople tho, May not be getting the best out of your setup.

hope this helps a little bit!! No dout other will point out anything ive missed

Tell me about it, it's the same for standalone too. When I change a part e.g bigger DP etc I've gotta then go and get the map tweaked. One hours dyno is more than enough but that's another £70 but I suppose that does include dyno graphs so can't really complain. Then I go change something else and back to the rollers, the cycle never ends, my car is a dyno hoe . I've only gotta go 20mins up the road can't image me driving to Bristol each time, I give it to you guys, your more dedicated than me .

Thats the reason I wanted to decide for definate on what spec I wanted and said to Leighton to have the car as long as he needed to make sure it was 100%. The last thing I wanted was more 400 mile round trips. I've had no problems at all.

Yes that is how things should be done, spec the car, build it, map it, enjoy! , however for me I'm always changing things, I just have to. I like to try something and test the difference so for me Bristol is not viable.

For those who plan on any sort of mapping make sure the car is 100% perfect before you even book it in otherwise your wallet will get




Boost control is very basic by the Bosch so I would really recommend getting an EBC. Just depends on your spec really.

Monitoring - I assume you mean fuel/knock. Live map or chip you should have an AFR trace and det cans. The Bosch can offer some protection but it’s always best to keep an eye/ear whist setting up.

Thanks everyone.

No, I was just referring to the usual three things that are done when you install a Gtech1 chip - Chip, boost gauge and control valve.

If I get a live remapping can I avoid all of that gubbins?

well ideally you want a boost gauge regardless ;east that way you can keep am eye on what boost your actually running espeacially when installing gtech 1

if i'm not mistaken the prv would help eliminate boost spikes too

Boost Gauge, PRV etc takes about five minutes Brian, I'll help ya out if you say please!

You read my mind, Matt! Thanks for the offer.

EBV, PRV, etc. I have no idea what these things mean.

Just suggest the easiest and most economical route to another 30 bhp. I have connections in Bristol, but if I don't have to go there (i.e., by using a gtech1), I would prefer that.

Cheers.

If you just want an extra bit of oomph, you want a boost gauge (including vacuum hose and T piece) a G-Tech 1, and a Manual boost controller, preferably a PRV although a PBV will suffice. As for obtaining a G-Tech, they pop up for sale all the time second hand, or get hold of GrahamL on here or on ebay (his user ID's "traumax")
Remapping is better still but more costly.

by connections in bristol do you mean Flea??

Well most things have been pretty much covered in one way or another

The one point I would pick up on is ecu boost control. It's not simplistic but actually very good, the problem is the standard EBV boost valve. You can swap to a PRV but they do make the boost delivery much harsher especially on part throttle, and you also loose a safety feature i.e. boost retard. These days I generally try to work with the EBV and offer an uprated version as it really does make the car much nicer to drive.

No - my connection is that Bristol is my home town.

So Flea, I recognise that you are offering a professional service for this, but given that I am probably not going to be able to take advantage of it, what can you recommend, please? What is the ideal package to go with a Gtech1 , for example?

As one who has been running a Gtec (2) for some time, and just had a FC custom map, here is my summary:

Any off the shelf chip is a compromise. It is the same map for any number of permutations of engine condition, age and component mods. Therefore it will be APPROXIMATELY mapped for your engine. Therefore at certain points in the rev/power curve it will be good and less good.

A custom map is right throughout the range.

Cost argument:
Generic chip: £20 (second hand) upwards. Downside could be a f***ed engine by fuelling inconsistency! =£1000's.
Custom map: c.£200+ (an investment and insurance, I'd say).

And as to having to remap after subsequent mods. That's life, no-one said modifying performance cars was cheap, it ain't!

Have fun...

what will a remap take a totally standard car too??...im liking the sound of the improved driveqbility and economy...

a remap on an otherwise totally standard car should get around 250bhp - not huge gains, but the real benefit will be the extra torque in the midrange and extra throttle response when off-boost. MPG should also be improved, which means it should pay for itself over a relatively short period of time

damn but bristol is a looong way from dundee haha

I soo wana get my butt down to fleas as well, quite a trek for me too, hard sorting out the logistics, as i'll have to hang around as long as it takes ( people who have been, does leighton mind customers watching while he working?) gona have to try and sort it out soon, wana make sure all's well and 'optimum' ........

I would be hoping to get down there before rolling roading mine, my girlfriends mum lives near Cardiff so would stop off there the night before too.

Absolutely not. Last time I tried he thrashed me with a nearby bush until I eventually buggered off. Man's insane, Basil Fawlty had nothing on the guy!

Seriously though, you normally just hang around in the local town. It's a steep old hill but you can get a cuppa in a cafe at the bottom. Big park nearby too if it's nice

Leighton has mapped my car a couple of times on his own, and once with me driving (while he twiddled the laptop)

Being very careful with his words, he explained to me that he finds it far easier to work on his own, rather than having the car piloted for him

So - you need a "sights to see and things to do whilst in Bristol" and then chill while Leighton does his stuff

nobody likes working with someone looking over their shoulder. It's really annoying and the inevitible questions such as:- Why are you doing that? Whats that called? etc will just delay and hinder the process. I am sure he will be happy to explain the process/details before and after, but definitely not during. let the man do his job and you will be happy with the results.

Plan for the day.
Drop the car with him and get lost!
He'll phone ya when ready. ;-)