FMIC choices

Hi,

Before anyone suggests that i use the search function on here i have already lol .

Im simply looking for the most efficient front mount intercooler kit for my 20vt.

Fitment and Cost are the two most important issues that come to mind.

atm, Pro Alloy (expensive imo)and the EVO FMIC are the most obvious options available.

Can anyone tell me of their current set up, or preferred/recommended choices with an explanation Why.

Thanks in advance everyone

I would choose the pro alloy FMIC kit, simply because it comes with all the correct pipes/hoses/silicones.
saves you the headache to look them yourself.

The pro alloy kit is BY FAR the best choice. It fits extremely well, and is made to a very high quality.

The down side is price. I supply and fit these for £600.

There was a group buy recently for a cheaper copy of the pro alloy kit, it isnt anywhere near as good quality, but it works and is £250 or so i think.

Thanks,

yeah thats the issue with pro alloy the price lol, isnt the group buy for the copy kit the one where people are having problems with actually receiving the kit and communications?

yes thats right.

The EVO route is a bad fitment, with hoses hanging below the car, and make shift fixing of the intercooler (cable ties anyone?).

The pro alloy is the way forward, nobody said modding was cheap huh?

haha, 'nobody said modding was cheap huh?' soooo true, well it looks like i might have to dig deep for some more cash for you Rog! new fluids, brakes and tyres nxt week though..... so gunna have to be the other side of xmas, any january sales Rog????

Rog is right,the evo is a good cooler but the route of pipework on mine ment the undertray needed triming,mine was bolted to the car via previous owner welding mounting points luckily.

If so i would buy the pro alloy.All the peices there ready to go.

Ill see what i can do on enquiry. Im already fitting it for £50!

Get some decent pads if your changing the brakes. Theres a group buy for EBC yellowstuff pads, awesome pads for the money.

Thanks Rog :), ill be in touch soon.

Erm, can I sub-contract fitting a FMIC

http://cufaro-racing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24_198&products_id=999

also nice product

That company isn't favoured on here. Here's an example of why.

Depends if you want to be ripped off from someone who was banned (from the forum) for not delivering £1100 worth of goods to someone.

shame :(, looks like a good bit of kit.

Just curious but how does the pace fmic run on 20vt?

As for brake pads I am running ebc red stuff ceramics and they are excellent for fast road use.

Not good, Its a double pass unit and makes the car very 'Laggy'

Go for the Pro Alloy, its a great bit of kit

ive got the double pass one but i havent fitted it yet, il be changing the pipe work though to get rid of some of the 90 degree bends

I thought pace was alright with a gtir??

pace fmic are horrible bits of kit.
avoid with all cost!

but the side mount IC is good!

Pro Alloy seems to be a done deal really.

What seems strange to me is that both pro alloy and pace are based in Haverhill, Suffolk. Seems it is a small world.

Also according to pace the fmic is available via fccuk.

I do not doubt that the pro alloy unit is the best.

But is there a link between the two companies?

No, to different companies mate!

Are you sure what you are writing, ask the guy if he got money back or not? its really hard offense writing something that you heared from a third could not be the true or only half...

I can't imagine this because i already bought some parts from this company and i visited twice personally, he is a very polite person..everything was fine.. i do not want to make pulicity at this point but it s a must for me to write this down

the theme is Fmic choices so i posted this choice...

<moderator's message> Please be aware that "Calogero" is in fact a banned user formerly known as "Nitrous" and involved with the company he mentions.

He has been banned, again....

Sly,

BUSTED!

Apart from the quote above how did you know it was the same person? Im just interested please dont ban me!

He posted from the same ip address. Stan always gets his man.

Stan = Sherlock

well done stan/mods - his posts could have enduced someone to spend with those cowboys again. the mods take stick from time to time, lets applaud it when they demonstrate how good they are.....

Nice one Stan, true to your profession

Shucks, thanks guys, didn't honestly expect that reaction and I am truly humbled


Now, in true mod fashion.......back on topic!

sooooo............. anymore options anyone????

I think it's pretty much covered in the thread ... the Pro Alloy option, or a DIY Evo-style option are what most people seem to favour.

Personally I run the Pro Alloy set-up, as it is well made and fits nicely. If the 'short pipe routing' option that is/has been explored progresses a some sort of group buy, then I don't think you'll be able to do much better than a Pro Alloy with that routing

I have the evo option and my mate's have the pro alloy.
my pipes sit slightly lower and the pro alloy is an easier job to fit but Costly. performance Nothing in it.

surely a fmic pipe kit and a smaller intercooler for different car like a universal cooler would be a better option for bumper editing and turbo lag reasons???? it could save even more money!!???

their is always the turborevs intercooler which i found easy to fit and pipe work is much the same as the pro alloy set up.and also cheaper than pro,and its a very good finish aswell.

But what about Lag with these big coolers? are they really that nessecary for people who only need 50-70% of theyre capabilities??? surely a smaller cooler will be better for 'lag' and easier for fitting i.e. less chopping of bumper and undertray???

Often wondered this,say using a smaller fmic for just say a gtir hybrid turbo etc. What makes the pace smic better than a small fmic? Just throwing some ideas.

its something ive pondered also surely a slightly smaller unit would have less volume and again with the pipework the smaller unit with smaller diameter pipework holds less volume of air so must have an effect on lag.. anyone? also..some of the ebay intercoolers seem to be of good quality and efficiency ,is it carl 16v? the project turbo self build guy tested his and it was very good and only cost £50 dont get me wrong i know the pro alloy etc are better quality but if you havent got the money and they work whats wrong with the ebay jobs ? i am having a gt28rs and all the usual mods done and im going to buy an intercooler this week the turbo revs one ive seen in the flesh and its a well made substantial piece of kit the only reason im considering another is what i mention in the first part of the post the rves one is good for 650bhp (claimed) if i can find one as good a quality rated at 400 with smaller diameter pipework would it not help with the lag issue? and ones like that are on there at £69 im temted to buy one just to see.. if it works result if not back on ebay she goes

Its not really the rate thats you looking tho is it-650bhp etc.
Its the efficiency of the the inter-cooler surely.

Im far from knowledgable on fmic but surely running a relavant sized cooler to turbo sounds right?

You guys explain,educate me.

Erm?

1. What are the gains in bhp when fitting a FMIC to a 20VT with 360 roller bearing turbo?

2. I suppose, after fitting the engine will require another map for the existing re-map?

sorry what i meant using the bhp figures was the size of the unit they tend to be bigger physically when bigger bhp figures are quoted thus more volume if you see what i mean

1. depends of general engine health and other modifications

2. Yes, a visit to flea is advised to get full potential from a fmic as it is with other mods. but it is not urgent.

cmon people! anyone out there to educate us with our questions on intercooler sizes etc?????????

no one??????

The FMIC discussion of death

someone help me revive this thread, still need more answers!!!

You're going to be waiting a while then.....

There are essentially only two FMIC choices

1) ProAlloy - pricy, but superb quality and fits perfectly

2) EVO (or other universal IC) - much cheaper, but then you have to work out your own pipe route and source your own hard and silicon pipes

IMHO, by the time you've faffed around with hoses and pipes, you'd have been better off spending a few quid extra on a proven product that fits first time - it took me about three hours to fit my ProAlloy FMIC, and that included the small mods to the undertray and the cutting of the bumper inserts

Its still going strong, 100,000+ miles later

i agree with nigel, just spend the little extra (or source one second hand) and go with the best!

Seems like a no brainer to me!

That's a bit strong, he was only asking!

BUT.... surely if i were to get a smaller universal FMIC and then fabricate the pipe work myself there would be less 'Lag' especially as im only looking for figures just past the 300bhp mark. rather than a mahooosive pro alloy good for 600bhp ish?????????????

I think the problem is that most people on here, who have an aftermarket FMIC, have followed one of the two routes that Nigel, myself and others have noted.

You'll be breaking new tuning ground on the coupe, therefore It would be good to see some directly comparable before and after figures if you do decide to go ahead.

yeah i guess so, im just suprised no one else has seen this logic and attempted to do anything about it!?!?!? as all of us turbo owners know LAG =

Before and after figures do you mean before FMIC and after? just for graph references of spool up?

The latter. Graphs showing spool up vs revs before your fitment of a 'small' FMIC and after its fitment.

better create a shopping list for my small FMIC kit on ebay! and book myself in at the local RR. just gotta wait for this snow to clear!

*numpty alert*

i had a pro alloy fmic fitted at motormech monday and although i haven't been able to test the set-up vigorously since due to the weather, there has been no discernible increase in lag. when i hap my car mapped a couple of months back flea said my turbo spooled up pretty quickly.

After reading through the thread here's my 2p's worth:

The issue with coupe tuning is that there are not that many proven tuning options out there, but the options such as do you go for an Evo or Pro Alloy IC have been tried and tested.

Both of them work well enough with benefits and drawbacks. It's far more important to have a well designed cooler and pipework than the dimensions of the IC itself, however most IC's that will fit and are not dual pass will do the job well enough.

If you want to try something different then that's great for the community - BUT you have to consider the time this will take you to make a go of it, and the expense that is associated with it. I spent a long time designing custom brakes and suspension for my 20VT - far longer than I thought it would take. If I i was to go through the process again then I would have gone the tried and tested route.

If you consider the cost of the Pro Alloy FMIC, £600 is not a lot of money for what you get fully fitted. To put this into perspective I paid more than three times this price for the V-mount IC that I run on my RX7. You could put together something that would save you a few hundred quid on a coupe - but you wont be sure it will work as well as you hope, and if it does not then you are back to the drawing board.

It's not the answer that people want to hear, but having been tuning cars for a good while now you really have to think about doing something once and doing it well - if you can't do so then I dont think that you should be tuning the car in the hope that what you do will either perform as you want it to, or wont cost you more money in the long run.

In Summary - go for the Pro Alloy!

excellent post suba, even for those of us (me) with little tuning knowledge - thanks for that

It could be argued that a hybrid turbo running 300bhp would need more cooling than a larger unit running 310bhp at less boost... Not sure how this relates to IC vloume, but I'd want as much cooling as I could get within reason.

I ran 292bhp through the 'GTiR' and it was no more 'laggy' than standard. Even with a 28RS I wouldn't say the car is laggy. Boost threshold is higher, but when the revs are up, this thing spools pretty quickly, even with a restrictive standard downpipe.

what IC are you using Trappy?

Pro Alloy with SIP

I've got a mate with a standard Fleamapped coop I could test drive. I'll have a go and see if i can find a difference in lag when the snow clears.

thanks mate, that would help alot, i just want whats best yet only necessary for my coupe to achieve and be happy at 300bhp ish.

Hope this snow clears up soon lol!

Trappy - you are spot on. A big roller bearing turbo that can be efficient at 2 bar will produce much lower charge temperatures at 1.3 bar than a hybrid at the same boost level that is right on it's limit of efficiency - so there is less 'work' for an IC to do.

There are two reasons to get the charge temps down:

1. for safety - anything over 60 degrees is asking for detonation and a nuked piston. At 1.2 bar a standard coupe will reach this level in a long pull in 4th gear, and exceed it. It wont if you just blast 1st, 2nd and 3rd to the redline, which is why a lot of coupes run a gtec chip without issues on a road car. Even most tracks rarely see you doing long 4th gear pulls - though there is a cumulative effect if you are pushing the car hard for long periods of time.

2. For power - you want the charge temps in the 20's or 30's for more power. colder air is denser and so you get more 02 to burn = more power.

A badly designed or cheap IC can actually hinder you by adding a restriction that the turbo has to push air through - bigger is not always better. This is more noticeable on smaller turbo cars where the turbo struggles to hold boost at the top end anyway. In that case you will loose boost at the top end, and increase lag as the turbo has to 'fill' the IC before the engine gets the extra air.

I have a smaller IC its half the hight of the pro alloy types a touch longer and as deep. I have never gotten to the top of third gear, so for me its fine. I had custom pipe work done although its not as short as some peoples.

youve never gotten to the top of third gear??? how much approx has this setup cost you?

Don't know the IC was on the car when I got it I just got rid of half the pipe work and made sure it does not blow the pies of.
The car does ~70Mph in second gear top of third (red-line) would be a speeding ticket.
One day I'll track it but until then its fine as it is.

thanks Jef_uk id be interested in your intercooler dimensions/pictures if possible.

Think that is the only image I have of how it was almost.

edit actually its no longer than the pro alloy might even be a touch shorter.