strange running after fitting FMIC and SIP

i have just fitted a turborevs fmic and a SIP pipe to my 20vt running standard turbo and gtec1 HF and have run into some problems with the general running of the engine.

before the fitment, my car was running a stable 17psi and 19-20 spike with quick spool up, good fuelling.

after fitting the kit, my atmospheric dump valve doesnt make the usual long whistle type noise but instead its a fluttering whistle (100% the flutter is the dump valve and not the turbo).

also, i now have terrible boost creep and peeks at 12psi or 14psi max (sometimes). iv lost the strong and fast surge of power i used to get and my old boost levels.

my coolant temp on the dash guage reads at about 80c when driving now and used to sit around 70c, im guessing the big fmic infront of the radiator might be the cause or maybe the new thermostat i fitted a few months back was actually stuck open after all and making the temps as low as 70c.
the fans kick in at about 89c so probably nothing to worry about.

any advice or pointers would be a blessing as im considering running the standard smic and pipe work again which i know worked great.

cheers

80 is fine for temp.

You have mentioned boost creep but said



That sounds like a boost leak.

Probably ain't helping the DV either.

iv been thinking, maybe the placement of the cone filter and the sip is making the turbo flutter more audible over sound of the dv.

i disconnected the dv just now and it mustnt be leaking as the boost peeks the same at 12psi slowly.

this mornings startrek has some surprising errors of which all seemed to have happened after fitting the fmic and sip and taking it for a few runs.

what does anyone make of this....

The Sip and cone, your right it does make more of a noise, mine makes a very loud flutter at low revs changing gear or lifting off. You will get higher water temps due to less air flow. How did you go about piping it up?

Can I ask why you fitted a FMIC to a standard turbo ?

The poor little turbo will be struggling to pressurise the extra 4' square of inlet you've just added!

Imagine using a bike pump to blow up a bike tyre, then the same pump to blow up a tractor tyre, thats what your turbo is feeling and why it's slow to react.

I noticed exactly the same when swapping from the chargecooler to a FMIC with my little superspool turbo.

Your engine temperature sounds like the FMIC is now masking a faulty thermostat. If it was running at 70 degrees prior to the intercooler then your stat could well be shot.

nightmare really as the 2 U bends were missing and replaced with 2 70 degree pipes. i need to source a tight hardpipe U bend as one of the 90 degree joining hoses is a little tight but will do for now. i routed it similar to yours, ill sort some pic out in a mo.

there was ALOT of bumper chopping.

your Lambda is all wrong as well mate, should be nearer 1.0 not 0.56 ?

I've got a T28 hybrid turbo with an Evo6 FMIC and have never had a problem.

12 psi isn`t the base boost that the 20vt makes when the injector light comes on , in limp mode ?
i know the 16vt has 0.6 bar in limp mode , and the 20vt has more , so i think that-s why you only get base boost , because of the that have o/c or s/c .Check the wiring , something is wrong there and the car is running in limp mode .

shortly after posting the startrek screen shot, i deleted the codes and they havent popped up again yet. im going clean my MAF tonight as iv found that the spool time is back on form although still peeking at 12-14psi :-(
my previous AFR readings were spot on running approx 18psi with the gtec1-HF, but now at WOT im not hitting lower than 13's.
Grrrrr, no more boosting till i source the problem

Sounds to me like you have a boost leak, either a loose connection on one of the new pipes (or one might have a split in it, or the intercooler itself might have a leak!

if its a "boost" leak between the throttle body and turbo outlet, wouldnt that make the engine run rich as the metered air isnt reaching the cylinders and the fuelling has already been calculated for it and the ecu is running off the map and not lambda??

my thinkin, although probably wrong, is, unmetered air (a leak)entering between the MAF and turbo (where theres no positive pressure) would cause a lean mix due to extra air entering the system of which hasnt been accounted for and would make my idle lumpy and show up as lean on my wideband, which currently flicks between 14.5-14.7 as its always done and ticks over steady and smooth.

i might be spewing out alot of nonesense now but its an insight into my strange theories lol

If everything else is normal as before and you just have a less boost then before FMIC for sure that is a thing of mounting a large FMIC,becouse turbine cant fill up the same preasure in a bigger space or volume with same speed.

You will have to adjust your boost preasure and raise it a bit to reach 17psi.

I have seen this happening many times even with larger turbines,it is also normal that you loose some of the spool up,not much but it is a loss.

if the fmic is somehow to blame, now i need to chase my stupidly lean mixture on boost, although im "driving miss daisy" now because im in a big huff lol

I installed FMIC on my car and had no problems with the build up of boost pressure. Here is a graph from my first RR. Mods Gtec1, NGK BKUR7ET and Pro Alloy FMIC.

The dark blue line is boost pressure in kPa. 100 kPa = 1 Bar.

As you can see the EBV is not so good. Boost goes up and down, but the build up is fine. The engine hit 1 bar before 3000 rpm.

Now compare this result with my mate's (Mr Jordbo) latest RR. His mods are Novitec chip, FPR and cone filter.

Same here the dark blue line is boost pressure in kPa.
As you can see the engine hit 1 bar after 3000 rpm.

Both cars are tested on the same RR.

new update. yesterday i reset the ecu, checked the fuel pump wiring mod, cleaned the MAF and the ICV, used STARTREK to check and delete any errors before the reset and gave the EBV a good pressure clean in side with WD40..... and still the same, 12-14psi and on boost AFR's never lower than mid 13's eeeeek!

tonight i hooked it up to STARTREK again, no errors present so i tried a reset again. this time when i disconnected the battery (+), i jumpered a wire from it and onto the (-) terminal for a second or two then left the (+) lead off for 25 minutes.

VOILA, i got my oil and water temps up to the normal and headed for a B road outside my town. every gear pulled hard, spiked to 19psi then held strong at 17, AFR's reading from 11.2-12 right up the rev range.

i strongly recommend that you short the (+) battery wire onto the (-) terminal when resetting the ECU to guarantee theres no residual electricity roaming around keeping the old settings alive. its proven with me

im soooooo chuffed the coop is BACK lol, also, i can barely notice a difference in spool up time between the FMIC and SMIC now.

RESULT. big thanks to everyone for there suggestions and help. Craig

Just wondering, will resetting the ECU cause any problems if you have a Flea map?

problem not solved after all. this morning my fuelling was up to its old tricks again, running back in the mid 13's-15's on boost and WOT. ive done alot of miles today and the AFR is staying within the above mentioned range when i dare give it boost.

so, 10 mins ago i did the same reset as yesterday and took in for another sprint and would you believe, AFR bang on mid 11's at full boost and WOT all the way up the revs and going like the clapper, also idle was perfect.

i turned the car around and gave it another quick sprint and all was still good. i come back into my town and filled up with fuel (left the car running while filling so not to disrupt anything), and headed back out for round 2.

round 2 sprint 1, AFR's under same loads etc was mid 12's. a quick U-turn later,
round 2 sprint 2, "" "" "" high 12's to high 13's. without another reset the AFR will keep giving me random average between 13-15.

still no codes on startrek or injector light on.
i can guarantee that if i reset the ecu again, i will get the exact same script.

any ecu techies out there???

maybe you have some problem with the car heating something up .A sensor that goes out of range after driving it a while ?Maybe your fuel pump is heating up after a while and cannot deliver ,maybe causing the limp mode (don`t know if it`s posibile but it is a scenario) or maybe a injector dying .
The problem seems fuel related or some sort .A boost leak can`t be your problem , because the MAF will make the car run rich , not lean in that case. How is the AFR on idle ? (just to exclude the holes in the exhaust or exhaust manifold scenario ).

idling it fluctuates between 14.3 and 15. i was thinking fuel pump aswell possibly because iv noticed that when i hit WOT and full boost, i get a 1 second burst in the 11's before it shoots back up to the seriously lean figure and stays there until i back off.

maybe i need to source a fuel pressure guage thats readable from inside the car so i can test it on full boost

Is your car mapped? Nigel had a problem with his old P.T. map. Does your wideband emulate narrow for the ECU? Or do you have two lambda.
Could you try a 45° on the sip between the turbo and the maf? Or between maf and filter?

iv got a 90 fitted between the MAF and filter and i have an AEM wideband with its own lambda

12/10/1010 replaced the gtec1 HF with the standard chip to see if my problem went away, the answer is NO.

exactly the same symptons as per last trial.

the first 2 miles after reset with on & off WOT and full boost the fuelling is perfect, but with every try after that, the fuelling just starts tappering off 0.5 - 1.5 higher everytime until my full boost AFR's are mid 13's-14.

there must be a sensor or something telling the ecu to pull my AFR's upto that high value as both chips are doing exactly the same when i comes to fuelling (starts low n perfect, then gardually getting crap).

think im narrowing it down to the injectors. two of which needed the rubber 'o' rings renewed as they were ever so slightly weeping and one of my injectors has a higher than normal ohm reading.

to add fuel to my current annoyances, i hit a badger this morning on the way to work, my god are they a dead weight (excuse the pun). looked like a wild boar running across the road. first thing i could think of was "dont damage the new fmic". hard braking and a flick of the steering wheel meant it smashed its face into the corner of my bumper. intercooler fine but bumper has a big crack from top to bottom just back from the corner. its wire like fur even put scratches in the paint. absolutely gutted.

What AFR gauge do you use?

AEM wideband

Sterrick,

It sounds like I have the same problem but with a more standard set up, I too have a AEM wideband. I've changed maf, icv, cleaned throttle body, done wiring mod, changed dump valve, replced crank sensor, replaced ecu temp sensor, replaced leaking flexi on my dowpipe, changed tps, changed fuell filter, looked for boost leaks and no joy! I have a few chips which gave good fuelling before ie mid 11s on boost but now show mid 12 to 13s sometimes dipping into 11s briefly, resetting the ecu can help for a short time.

Changing the above things helped solve other problems I had such as poor idle and the car occasionally cutting out which I thought was linked to the fuelling issue.
I'm currently trying to find some cheap injectors to swap and test or will be buying some cleaned and flow checked ones...... interestingly my throttle only showed 81 on my widget with foot to the floor, i adjusted the cable to 91 and fuelling jumped to rich on boost with a Gtec1 hf for a week untill I took the car of the road for just over a week to do some work on it before my mot. Unfortunately when I dropped the car off the stands after the week fuelling returned to lean on boost again, possibly blocked/clogged injectors?

Good luck with your problem if you fix it let me know please

will do bud.

i had a good day shopping at a scrap yard nr glasgow yesterday.
for £100 i managed to get the coupe twin fan setup, MAF, nearly new EBV, plastic pipe before the throttle body, grill, fuel rail with 5 very clean looking injectors, FK automotive rear lowering springs with adjustable height adaptors and matching FK rear dampers.

i tested the injectors i got from the breakers and they all read 16ohms which is good and better than the ones im replacing. il reset the ecu again today and see how it goes.

Thanks mate, sounds like you got a bargain!
Have you already been for a run with the new injectors?

im about to fit the dampers so il let you know later on this afternoon what the score is

I have the same thing. With a cone air filter I am hearing the flutter sound , wich i think is unhealthy for the turbo .Does anybody have the same problem ?I haven`t heard the flutter before mounting the cone filter .My bov has 3 washers in it , but if I take one out , it won`t hold boost in 3rd gear .That sound I believe it to be a problem ,I get it only bellow 2500-3000 rpms ,above that I get the bov sound .

it's the turbo creating too much boost that the engine cannot take it at low revs causing air to flow back over the compressor wheel causing compressor stall with a stock intake the noise is muffled but with a cone/sip the noise is amplified.

I doubt at such low revs its going to cause any damage

mine flutters more with the fmic than it did before because there is a larger volume of air to dump now at the same pressure as before and the little baileys cant dump it all so there is a little bit of backwards flow. it reminded me that its why i fitted the twin dump valve kit on my renault 5 turbo, it solved the flutter but it looked like over kill under the bonnet