Discrete bass

I need to prop up the bass in my coupe a bit. Massive thump is not needed. Huge amps and speakers in the boot are a nonstarter.

So, what can you recommend. Just need something that backs up the rest of the system (which has already had all 6 speakers upgraded, so i will need a bass unit of some sort).

Cheap as possible please and effective, probably in the form of integrated sub-amp.

Cheers for any suggestions.

Steve

not cheap, but VERY effective, without losing all your boot space

Thanks Nigel. That might be a good option. As you say though its not the cheapest. Would have the merit of being something I could use in future cars though I think.

How did you find the fitting did you run it out of the stereo or did you go via the crossover. I recall one of your threads which suggested that you have rewired your speakers how did that process go? Is there an installation guide for a sub in the boot and for an ICE rewire?

Do you have any pictures of it installed? How have you attached it to the boot floor?

maybe try put some bigger speaker in place of backseat original speaker ??

Mate, done that already - see the original post.

Managed to tweak some settings today and it's better. The sound is a bit poorly defined, but the bass is there to an acceptable level now.

Not sure £300 to upgrade the speakers is worth it, but would be interested in seeing / knowing more about Nigel's set up.

A good 12" sub in place of the spare tire gets my vote. Room enough for a 30 liter enclosure + amp in there.

As requested



It's strapped to the boot floor panel (to stop it sliding around) - neatly, it's exactly the same size as the bit of the boot floor panel that stays flat - I can still lift the rearmost section to get at the stuff under the carpet panel (although getting at the spare wheel might mean that the sub has to be disconnected, which shouldn't be more than a two-minute job - to wiring connectors and two straps and its out)

I know its a good few miles out of your way, but if you wanted to see and hear my setup, I work in Coventry - about 60 - 90 minutes from Oxford - happy to show you most weekdays

Have a pdf of nice DIY project from brasilian forum, how to install two 8" subs behind the rear side panels, sinve I´ve never looked there don´t know is there possibility to put bigger ones. Can e-mail it if somebody interested (don´t know exactly how to upload it:))

Thanks for the offer Nigel. It's a fair distance, althoguh I might well do that.

How have you gone about porting the bass into the cabin, With the boot being a sealed unit I thought it might make it a bit boomy, is that the case?

It is fairly large, but I guess the key thing is that it is large and thin.

It is slightly boomy with the gain and frequency wound up fully, but I didn't buy it to shake my windows - I just wanted some extra definition and to release the standard speakers to do their own thing

I might try it with the ski hatch pulled forward to see if there's a noticeable difference - if there is, I might pull out the foam fillers in the rear quarters to see if that lets anything through

Could do, providing you have not covered the holes in the rear thee quarter panels with flashing tape or similar.

With the thought of the bass in the boot wouldn't it be just as good (as we're only talking about a requiring a small increase in base to relive the speakers) to find a small 'box' and amp package to fit discreetly on the parcel shelf. It wouldn't need to be as big as the package you've got as the sound would already be in the cabin and you would then have an empty boot.

I'm really just thinking aloud here as I want to upgrade system soon and I've also grown out of screen shacking base but still require some.

At the risk of being shot down in flames, there are a number of small/discrete bass speakers that can be hidden under the seat for instance, even under the rear seats. There was a time I would spend loads on ICE, but in all honesty as 007 says all thats needed is a modest bit of extra bass. The quest for really loud/booming bass for some, should be left to the saxo brigade etc..

I'm totally with that guys.

I have been trying to think about how to get something in the parcel shelf. There is a nice 6x9 powered amp set that I think would do well there. I'm going to ask TAG to have a think about it.

Would rather avoid loosing some rear foot space as I'm sure those underseat jobs would not go under a coupe seat, but they could work.

Also consider one of these:

http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/products/25/130/201/TS-WX11A/index.html

It went into the cubby-hole on the left side of the boot and fills out the bottom octaves adequately. When adjusted correctly, you don't really realise that there is a sub installed - the music just seems to sound balanced. Cheap but well worth a look for those who don't want to spend much nor use up too much space.

Aye this is exactly the sort of thing I was referring to. There are obviously several similar types on the market, but at the end of the day, a bit of discreet bass is not going to cost the earth, well it shouldn't

Neil,

Can you give some more detail on how you installed and secured this in the cubby hole?

Steve

The cubby hole has a sheet of metal joining the wing to the wheel arch. This also has some holes in it. I just put some bolts through the holes and attached a 3/4" wooden "plate" to which I attached the sub, sort-of horizontally. Took about an hour in all.

If I were to do it again (which I may), I would probably change the mounting plate so that I could place the sub more vertically, sort of in-line with the door of the cubby hole.

I will see if I can remember to take a picture for you.

As for positioning, yes there is an optimal place in any "room" for a sub, but a car must also serve other purposes. So for me, the location was not negotiable. However, clarity of the sound should come from the main speakers. You should not be able to locate the source of the bass from the sub if adjusted correctly. Low frequencies travel rather easily through most material so once plugged in and adjusted, the low bass just appears to come from the main (door) speakers. The better the sub, the deeper the bass goes (and louder if necessary) but as long as it keeps pace with the overall loudness of the rest of the system, it works.

My sub in the main system at home is probably undersized for music compared to the abilities of the main amp and speakers. With rock and pop music it is hard to tell that the sub is doing anything. With movies, some extra weight is noticable. So the other conclusion is that with rock and pop music, really low bass ability makes little difference to the enjoyment of the music.

Hence a small sub in a car is surprisingly effective.

If you're looking for discrete, balanced bass, you may want to have a look at this thread;

http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1101529#Post1101529

The main reason for me saying this is that for your application, you don't need to go down the Genesis route. Kenwood make 6 X 9 powered subs that will also fit in the rear panels and probably give you enough bass for your needs.

I've also gone through the groundshaking bass route (2 X 12 inch Hifonics subs in an isobaric box powered by a PG M25 amp - now that's Old Skool!) and am currently running a set of coaxials and a 10 inch JBL boxed sub (thanks KTM) which were being powered through a PG Octane amp. I've just swapped the PG for a Genny Profile 4 as I now know it'll fit under the passenger seat. I'll upgrade the rest of the system as funds allow and kit becomes available but it'll be identical to the above link.

Finally, the 10 inch sub in the boot provides ample bass for my needs even without the ski hatch open. The only reason for changing to 6 X 9's is the stealth install that they'll give along with freeing up the boot completely.

Considered the 6*9 but could not think of where to put them. Kenwood do an integrated amp unit with them. I have some 6*9s in the rear quarters already, so would not want to do away with them.

I wonder how much space there is under the seat. Probably not enough for my sub-amp.

6 X 9 full range speakers always sound deeper than standard 6.5 speakers due to the increased cone area. For most people this set up provides enough (especially if amped up)... until they hear a set up with front comps and a dedicated sub.

It sounds as if you've reached your limits with the 6 X 9 full range and feel the need for more bass? I'd suggest 2 possible solutions depending on your current set up;

1) Add a 4 channel amp for your existing speakers (this will give added depth and room for upgrades if you wished).

2) Change the full range 6 X 9's for the Kenwood 6 X 9 subs with dedicated amp (you could then sell the f/r 6 X 9's to recoup some cash).

Option 1 would give you the option to upgrade to subs at a later date if you wished. If you went for a Genesis amp, you could fit it under the passenger seat as the above link and not sacrifice any boot space. Profile 4's are going for @ £120 - £150 so not cheap but quality seldom is.

EDIT: Just re-read your O/P. If you're trying to do this as "economically" as possible, then an "active" set up is probably the best way to go. So, your choices seem to be Pioneer or Kenwood. You could get even more "economical" by choosing used gear that's been well looked after?

The active route is the one I'm going with. I'm using the sub-amp in Neil's post above.