Coupe not a classic yet - What will join it?

The coupe is a classic in the making. But, what do we all think are the cars to buy now for investment purposes?

What's going to make money over the next 10 years - your opinions are needed!!

Maximum budget to spend on one now is £5000.00…….so nothing to be discussed costing more than this to purchase in todays market..

I think the Porsche 944 / 928 might be quite good investments. I'm not sure if £5k would bag a decent one.

Owning a few Alfa's, I am hoping that decent 75s will start to climb in value (paid 3k for mine 3 years ago, and it has an insurance value of 6.5 now although I doubt very much it would sell for that).

Alfa 155 prices are all over the place at the minute, but Q4s should start to go up although they will never make Integrale territory I suspect. Modified 155s in good condition are making current Coupe money. 2-3k will get a sorted 155 with a 3.0 24v V6, or a decent 20VT conversion (including brakes, handling etc).

Finally, at the budget end of the market, 33s are getting few and far between. I have one of only a few S2 Sport Wagons left, which needs a tidy up but is a complete solid car with a rare leather seat option. Also have 2 S3 33 Sport Wagons (1 taxed and tested, 1 for spares), a P4 and a 16v. All bought cheap! Surely they must start going up a little bit in the next 10 years!!

Possibly E36 M3, already getting thin on the ground for a low mile mint one and I think prices are already starting climb slightly.
Mk 1 and 2 Golf GTI'S too.

E34 M5s appear to have finally started to rise and I'm sure they'll eventually be joined by the E39s too.

With BMW's I've seen a big price hike with the 325i (E30) too.

Lotus Elite/Eclat.......pure 70's retro wedge getting very much in-vogue

Corrado vr6

Renault 5 GT turbo.

These are rapidly becoming as rare as rocking horse poo!

GTV Cup. 5k may be pushing it it, but find a good'un that needs just a little TLC and it'll be a keeper.

Escort RS Turbo S1 has potential, as do many "fast fords" of the 80's.

There is also a good chance an early XK8 or a TWR XJS is a good buy as Jag sports cars are back en vogue.

Uno Turbo, Punto GT - something that evokes the memories for guys from 20 years ago - "Do you remember xxx" "oh yeah I always said I'd have one of those"

Guess you really need a special / limited model (No not another LE) like the Cosworth Merc 190, Thema 8.32 perhaps there's even an old Lotus / TVR that you could rescue and love?

Yep, the Cossie Merc is a good bet - and here's one of the limited to around 500 made, of the 2.5 195bhp models.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1991-MERCEDES-...=item25885d6fb5

That Merc is spot on, if you remove those terrible wheels and back box.

Those Escort Mk1's are going for crazy prices!!

What about Volvo 850 T5 or even the 480 turbos?

Escort mk 1 and 2 any 2 door model and series 1 rs turbo . Mk 2 XR2. I can also see RS2000 MK 2 rising higher . This was Fiats answer to the RS2000 the Fiat 131 sport . This is the second one for 20k in the last couple of months http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251424825583?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Prevoius to that a black one needing tlc sold for 13.5k . I bought my Fiat 131 sport back in 2005 complete for under £500 . Its also the same with classic motorbikes . In 2006 i bought a nice running Suzuki RG500 for £1500 and then sold it for £2400 6 months later . Now you will be lucky to find one for 10K .

Link from Robs post for ease of viewing

CLICK HERE

What you buying next Rob?

It's a tricky question, some have suggested Volvo, not my cup of tea new let alone old each to their own.
My suggestion is posssibly the Two seater MG?

If i had not got my Fiat 131 sport or Strada Abarth i would get a VW Golf GTI mk 1 totally standard or a series 1 Renault GT turbo . Not many GTs left most of them been modified .

The Volvo isn't going to be a future classic, they're missing the "thing" that some of the other cars mentioned have.

saab 900 carlsson??

I reckon mint Mk1 MX5s will also be classics as soon as the supply starts to dwindle.

They may be reliable, but they aren't immune to rust.

There will be millions of people who chopped in their MX5 for something sensible to have kids. They will want to come back to it.

The Volvo defence league will be rioting in the streets using their tartan rugs to whip the cops.

Some old volvos became classics - amazon or P1800 anyone?

Maybe the "boxy" generation have looks only a mother could love.

I know there are two classic Volvos but they are as you said, evocative in design, the wedge and box thing I don't think is ever going to make you pay £10k+ when it hits 30.

Something with a British V8 in it. (Triumph, MG, Rover) nice complement to the coupe engine wise.

I think also Fiesta RS turbo's.

Their image took a battering in the mid 90's due to being owned by mainly boy racers, but as has been proven by other fast Ford's of the era, the prices will surely rocket in the next 10 years.

I suppose the hard part will be finding an unmolested example.

Of this list, the cars that I would not be able to walk past in the street without stopping for a look would be..

Alfa 155
Lotus Elite / Eclat
R5 GT Turbo
Volvo T5
Escort RS Turbo
Fiesta RS Turbo

I guess that means I have a square / boxy fetish.

True. I'd love a V8. Of course the "British" V8 in the MG, Rover, TVR etc is an American Buick engine. Our attempts at a V8 in the Truimph Stag was a bit of a damp squib.

Even the V8 in the Sunbeam Tiger was a Ford unit.

Fair point I'll revise that to American V8 redesigned and then engineered / built in Britain. The Stag V8 was an OK motor, just needed more carbage!

Yep we are good at "modding" in the UK.

My uncle offered me his Rovet P6 V8. It was a great beast in racing green.
great memories of travelling in it as a kid. So went to see it in the barn where it had been stored for about 15 years, and it was a heap of rust so had to sell it on for parts. No doubt someone bought it just for the engine.

The last time I went to the Italian day at Brooklands I ended up standing next to chap who happened to mutter 'I wouldn't do that to mine in a millions years' whilst watching a Maserati Quattroporte (excuse the spelling) wait for its turn to run test hill. We got chatting about cars and it turns out he was an ex rally driver and was looking for a 205 GTI to renovate back to standard and was really struggling to find a 'good one'. Money didn't appear to be an issue...
I think this is the kind of market we are talking about, people who are looking to buy the cars that were about when they were young and lusted after? People also want to be a bit different from the crowd, the Coupe for example is perfect, in the last year I owned mine I only saw one other on the road!
I also think the X19 will be sought after in a few years, a solid two seater is always a good bet regardless of make.

I have a feeling the Barchetta could join that club. Imagine if Fiat had made it RWD...

My future classic suggestions for under £5k that should be possible are:

Audi A4 convertible
Mk1 4 door Range Rover
Mk 1 2/dr LR Discovery
Land Rover Defender Td5
Triumph TR7
Golf GTi Mk1 & 2
Golf Mk3 VR6
Vw Corrado (any)
Ford Cosworth Sierra Sapphire
Peugeot 205 Gti 1.6 & 1.9
Jaguar XJS
Jaguar XJ6 Mk3 or later
XR2 Mk 1 & 2
XR3(i)
Alfa 156
Alfa Coupe
Saab 900 3 dr (9-3) Aero/Viggen/ hatch or convertible
BMW 8 series coupe

These are a combination of cars I either fancied as a school lad or subsequently owned or aspired to own.
Some sadly only made the Matchbox garage!

For me, all of them would need to be restored to as near to original condition, (to eliminate anything the boy racers may have done to them). I think any of them would probably stop me in the street if I happened to walk by.
My brother had a brand new Renault 5 GT turbo (which he subsequently rolled!) but it never did anything for me?
Maybe there should be a place for a MR2, Celica or Supra? Not 100% sure though?
Others future classics I fancied, are actually now classics and way over the 5k budget now!!

If I had to pick one which would have to the widest universal appeal in say 40 years time I probably would say the Audi A4 convertible??? Availble in different engines, petrol and diesel, all for around £5k, you can take your pick!

Toyota supra.
I doubt there will be many left in 40 years though.

bmw e36 m3 evo cabrio or coupe you can get them for under £5000 can only go up in value prices do seem to be increasing

Patch how about the posh cousin of the Fiat Coupe?

How about the Pug 205 1.9 GTi, one with the spec incl leather and sunroof...

? Ferrari

Pug must make the list. I have been looking at the Mk1 and Mk2 XR's recently. I think that thing about what you used to own plays a huge part. Unfortunately, to make a good investment on a soon to be/near classic you need to have some sort of 6th sense as I cannot figure out why some cars fetch a small fortune and others don't?

There must be some sort of criteria? But what is it?

Why is that car expensive?
Because people collect them.
Why do they collect them?
Because they think it will be/is a classic.
Why do they think it's a classic?
Because it costs lots more than other cars of its age...

Surely it'd be the original 1600?

Great little cars with go-kart handling and a fair turn of speed

Nissan Silvia/ 200 SX Turbo with manual gearbox.

You think any standard Silvia / 200's exist??? Hard enough finding a UK case these days!

I'm sure this chap used to have one in his stable, no idea if that's still the case though, haven't spoken to him in quite some time.

http://www.driftmatsuri.com/david-waterworth/

All the Alfa V6s look like going up.
I've noticed that 147 and 156 GTA prices have hardened over the last few months, no doubt helped by being included in a few 'what to buy for £XXX' articles in the likes of EVO and CAR.

My brother had a completely standard 200sx about 4 years ago. Sold it for about £2k

I think (or should that be hope?) the GTAs are a good call, limited production, rare, different enough from the standard cars, amongst the last cars with the "proper" Alfa V6 all adds up be a likely classic.

The GT v6 and GTV v6 (especially the Cups) will also be likely candidates.

A Clio Williams is a good bet also.

I see that Veloces in London have an 04 plate GT V6 on for £7,000.
Optimistic pricing IMO but if you can get in and buy a decent one now at a more sensible price that could be a sign of things to come.

Veloces are always over priced.

Alfa GTV!

That's not posh!!!

I know but they might do existing owners a favour by pushing prices up.

Anyway, if you want to see overpriced have a look at Hexagon or 4 Star Classics

What a bout the smart roadster. Article about them on Autocar - looking to increase in value, especially the Brabus versions. Sounds like they are great fun yet very cheap to run (55+MPG). Normal ones can be had for under £2k, Brabus under £4K currently.

I'd love a Barchetta especially with their current prices.... Summer toy?

Yes I will go with a Porsche 944 as a usable classic for under £5k....

[IMG]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c232/jonjeffryes/20140130_1615192_zpse62e37bc.jpg[/IMG]

This is my one...30 years old yesterday, 78k miles and costs about £1500 a year for about 3k miles per year! To get one like this, you'd be looking at £4 - £5k now as it is the 2.5ltr na model...wait 6 months and £5k + for a proper one will be the norm'.

944's seem to be at the stage where the good ones are gaining vlalue really quickly....but there are still a lot of cheap snotters on E-Bay but buy at your peril...

That last paragraph may seem strangely familiar on this forum

That looks really nice. What's it like to drive? I remember people putting posters of them on their walls when they were launched.

Thanks, I think they fantastic looking cars....one of the last real rwd GT cars that are still affordable..for now anyway.

You have to remember it's a dinosaur. This design was born in the early 70's and it feels like it for all the right reasons. The weight distribution is perfect and it handles superbly. A properly set up 944 will out handle many modern cars, let alone contempory sports cars.

It is a great GT in a traditional 70's Playboy heading off into the continental sunset sort of way. I used mine to scoot to Germany several time last year and it was brilliant. The engine is really smooth for a big four pot (twin balance shafts) it is really tourqey but also revvy...quite an unusual combination.

So grab one whilst you still can, look after it and you'll not loose any money!

Great cars. I've had 3 including a '89 SE Turbo with 340bhp.
My only criticism is the noise they make. The exhaust note was always dissapointing for me.

I had a 1991 s2 hated it got rid after 3 months handling terrible in wet straight line a lot slower than a coupe 20vt look good though

The noise is the downside of a big four pot. I have Dansk rear box which pep's it up a bit...no V12 soundtrack though!

Strange Baz...on of the key attributes of a 944 is its precise balance and handling...in a 1980's better than everthing else way. Did you have your suspension aligned...if they do not understand 944's when they set it up, they can really screw the handling.

.....and speed, a lot of contemporary hot hatches could catch the 944 with ease....however, I doubt they would stay with it on a long run.....it's all about pace rather than speed.

and 20vt...well in my experience not much will keep up with a well driven 16v n/a....add in the dynamics of the 20vt and you have one of the most understed mini-supercars in the world...now if it had an Alfa badge people would be raving about it and values double....but that's another thread I expect

atvb

Jon

If it handled badly then it had issues.
As Jon said they need setting up correctly due to the torsion bar rear suspension.

As I stated my car was a 1991 car not a 80s car the handling was good in the dry a death trap in the wet.The car I had was a s2 so had revised suspension and the proper Porsche engine which in my opinion sounded crap.reading the write ups the s2 was better than any 80s 944s maybe with the exception of the turbo.When I got rid of my Porsche 944s2 I replaced it with something from the same era the car I replaced it with handled much better was much quicker and had better brakes so the best all round package of the 80s is the Porsche 944 not my opinion my opinion goes to the car I replaced it with a 1989 lancia delta hf integrale 16v judging by current prices some people may agree with me

I thought standard integrales were only marginally quicker than an S2, although the boost did make them feel faster.
My 944 turbo was an awesome handling car even in the wet. Sounds like you had a bad one or have a twitchy right foot.

Interesting tone to your reply! The 944 was based on the 924 which is a 1970's ...actually 1973 design. The 944 took the core of the 924 and improved it in 1981. The S2 was launched and was a development of the earlier mid eighties 2.5S, launched in the latter part of the 1980's. It might have been sold in 91 but was basically an 80's developed car with 80's dynamics....and that's the point. That's also why the 968 sold so few cars...the basic design was too old by 93 for a 'modern' car.

All 944's had proper Porsche engines, either in 8v which was good enough for the Turbo or 16v which was best in the S2. None of them sound very exciting and as you moved on to the Lancia, you had one of the best ever designed four pots, period. It's a work of art.

Better dynamics, brakes , four wheel drive...certainly it was developed for rallying. A superb machine....and rarer which impacts on value as much as the complete cars dynamics. I certainly enjoyed my ownership of an 8v many years ago.

So where did we get to on the Porsche...you didn't like yours, I like mine ...that's what makes the world go around.

A integrale also has very humble underpinnings it to is a 70s design as they were based on the original deltas same chassis as In 1979.Lancia developed into the fastest point to point car of its day.My point by the time a company like Porsche had to develop the 924 944 it should have been better than it was.The reason the lancia is worth more is because it is a icon and full of character that's something the Porsche 924 944 is not.i am not saying the Porsche was a bad car but my opinion is they were very overrated ps the original 924 944 had audi engines

The integrale is an established classic. The EVO models being the bees' knees! They seem to be dramatically rising in price!

in a straight line a integrale is a bit quicker but round the bends the Porsche does not have a hope even a big bhp turbo would struggle round the bends in the wet the Porsche would end up down a ditch trying to keep up

Baz the 944 never had an Audi engine. You are correct that the 924 did until they bought out the 'S' model.

In the wet anything with only 2wd would struggle to keep up with an intergrowler!
Not so in the dry though. My old 944T was low 5's to 60mph and had epic traction if driven correctly.

Shame that neither of these cars fit into the criteria for this thread as they both require a spend of over £5k

Your correct about picking up a integrale for under £5k unless you wanted a restoration case so the integrale does not meet the criteria.The Porsche on the other hand does fit the criteria you have a choice of 944s 944s2 944 cabriolet and even some turbos can be had for this money have a look at pistonheads,If the Porsche was that great a car and that highly rated, prices would have firmed up by now after all they are getting on a bit now and are quite rare

Sorry Baz. I meant the Turbo model.
Why would you want anything else.

3 turbo models in uk for sale just now under £5k maybe the next cars to rocket in price then again maybe not I am looking to buy a e36 m3 at end of year that's were my money is going prices have started to go up and they look a good investment

80s turbo standard hot hatchbacks uno turbo r5 gt turbo escort rs turbo and some homologated rally cars celica gt4 mazda 323 4wd and renaut 21 turbo lancia thema turbo can all be had for under £5k prices can only go up

Interesting comments.

The 944 non-turbo is not overated any more than a Fiat Coupe n/a is. The early square dash 944s are now becoming very much in demand as are the 16v n/a Fiat coupes.

In both cases, two main factors are driving this...condition and rarity. But there is another more subtle (and much debated factor championed by Barnacle on this site), the purity of the original designed cars....but only cars properly maintained, adjusted and driven regularly fit the demand.

Generally the earlier cars had less equipment and mechanical finesse that the later cars....but they are both significantly lighter which means they handle better and less power is needed to move the things along.

So whilst on paper the lack of horses may make them look 'slow'...in real driving conditions there is more usable power throughout all road conditions. Without the additional tubo or 16v power and weight of the later cars....that's why the early 944's feel so much better on the B roads.

If you have not tried the earlier incarnations of your muscular turbo enhanced beasts, you should try the earlier cars.....not just a quick blast - a proper cross country drive and you might just be surprised.

Baz if you ever get the chance, go and drive the original Delta and you'd be surprised how much of the original DNA is there...minus the muscles of course.

The 944 was the car that saved Porsche for good reason. It was Car and Driver magazines best handling car of the year from 1985 - 1987 also for good reason.

So as I already said, we all like different things, that's what makes the world go around.....

the porsche 944 the car that saved Porsche its a pity the integrale could not save lancia

I used to lust after an HPE back in the 80's (but bought Alfa's, Porsche's and Rover Sd1 when the kids grew to big for sporty cars) and used to get an occaisional lift to work in a real Stratos back in the 70's (Rich boss! he had this, a Roller and a Jenson Interceptor) and always realised how lucky I was, even at that early age.

I read recently that Lancia are planning a return to the UK...hopefully if they do it will be with something really Italian rather than just another corporate eurobox.

It'll be another US Chrysler with 'Chrysler' crossed out and 'Lancia' written on in crayon...

saab 900 carlsson very rare car at the time. Had one from new for 8 years covered 90,000 miles in which time only changed the oil, air filter and plugs every 10,000 miles, what a car. Head turner then and still today, if you are ever lucky enough see one. Wish I still had it.

I hired one of these last time I was in Italy, that's exactly what I meant by a eurobox...not nice....give us a proper Lancia and surprise us all!

I'm sure that a Lancia Beta would have been a classic if there were any left. I worked at a fragrance company in Ashford during the 80s and bought a 3 year old Beta from the company (owned by one of our perfumers) for £400. It had holes in the front wings you could put your arms through and you could have cleaned your teeth with the dipstick due to the superb quality of the servicing from the local dealer.

Once some fine Castrol had been inserted the dear Lancia did me proud for eighteen months - the 2 litre engine was just a complete blast and the handling was as good as anything else at the time. I then spent about £10 on Isopon filler, £15 on undercoat, paint and sandpaper and sold her for £1200. I'm sure that the engine is still around somewhere, but I suspect that the chassis and body panels have been consigned to the great rust heap in the sky.....

My stepfather had a new Beta saloon in the 70s. It was went back to Lancia for a full refund before it was 9 months old due to rust issues.

It was a decent enough car apart from the rust.

A friend and I once visited a scrapyard with the intention of replacing his blown 1.3 Ford Cortina engine. We ended up with a Beta engine and gearbox under the Cortina body...

Classic in the making Mercedes c36 amg and c43 amg these cars can easily be had for under £5k they are very rare and they were the first amg mercs

C36 AMG is on my 'to buy' list, big power and very cheap, £3.5k for a lovely estate near me...

Estate version very nice these cars can only go up in value

Lancia are not planning a UK return under their own name. The Ypsilon continues to be sold here under a Chrysler badge but they have just withdrawn the Type 3 Delta from the UK. We're actually looking at one for Mrs Nello. With the numbers sold here they're concentrating on the Ypsilon and 300c only.
People just haven't got a clue what they are. It could be worse - they're selling the Chrysler Sebring as a Lancia Flavia on the continent...... I've had several proper Lancia's including a HPE though the brand were under Fiat by the time the Beta came along. Cracking car. To ad to the 'joiners' list - I used to work at the Peugeot Talbot Ryton plant as Peugeot came in in the 80's. We used to road test the last Solara's and Alpine's (Rapier's and Minx's by then!) All the bosses then drove Talbot Tagoras' which were built in France with Peugeot suspension following Chrysler development. I loved them - they're huge in the back - looked very boxy and dated in their day but super-retro now to me. I'd definately look for one if one came up but they are super rare here nowadays.....

I hope lancia does not have a return to the uk because there current models all look junk.I am glad they have a Chrysler badge on them because they don't look like lancias.Fiat should be ashamed of themselves once a great car maker now producing rubbish

Here here i totally agree . Fiat should give the name Lancia up and never use it again until they have something decent . However the Lancia Delta Integrale especially the Evo is one of the most over rated cars in Italian history and i have had a few of them .

with lots of manufacturers producing retro cars and selling them in high numbers for example fiat 500,bmw mini,vw beetle why can a company like lancia not produce them with all the great cars they have made.Imagine a modern day monte carlo,fulvia,stratos or integrale surely they would sell.As stated above fiat should give the name up and sell lancia on surely someone could make it great again

The thing with the above mentioned "classics" is that they're remembered by the masses as cheap, fun little cars. Whether or not they are is debatable. Lancia on the other hand are remembered for rust...

IMO Fiat need to keep control of the name until they have something like a Stratos that'll be class beating.

The issue for Lancia is they are under the FIAT umbrella. e.g Fiat will not make a new say X1/9 as they have the Alfa 4c already under the same 'stable.' Same reasons as why they'll not make a Coupe replacement - another of their own brands already makes a car in that class. The Chrysler Delta is a Fiat Bravo engine and chassis. I actually really like 'um though they are not of the original Lancia mould which were always superbly engineered. (I've had a Fulvia/Beta etc.)...

Superbly engineered, but in the seventies/eighties, made of cheese.

That argument was still being used 20 years ago, yet they still came up with the Fiat Coupe which in many ways (20vt at least) could be regarded as "more sporting" than the Alfa GTV. If they really wanted to make another "outside the box" sporting Fiat I'm sure they could make it happen, it just needs the right mix of decision-making designers and engineers within the larger Fiat organisation...

And there have been attempts to come up with recent retro Fulvia and Stratos models of course

But in retrospect - twenty years ago, every major brand was looking at coupes...

now it's all vans with windows and jacked-up eye-sores for the school run

Nothing (much) wrong with my van with windows. Or "minibus" as we call it; it's even rather retro in a way... Possibly not a classic - yet - although perhaps I should draw your attention to this article...

Fiat took over Lancia in '69 so the Fulvia was really the last all Lancia Lancia. The metal was still fairly cheesey though even back then.......

There has been great cars built by lancia under fiat ownership granted but there also responsible for were it is today.lancia is remembered for rust buckets but so is fiat remember the strada,131,x19.Fiat need to let lancia go before they kill it of

Strada was not a bad car even the base models they certainly did not rust like lancia and no worse than ford .Beta was the worse followed by the early deltas .

Ask anybody about a fiat strada and there reply would be rust bucket they certainly were no better than early deltas.I personally have had a strada 105tc and belive me you had to battle rust.I have viewed 4 strada 130tc abarths years ago trying to buy one and belive me these cars rust very badly I could not find a good one

Calibra 4x4 turbo,as I'm hoping they go up,got a few myself Inc a very rare dtm turbo

I think the Subaru Justy 4x4 will undoubtedly be up there, along with the Rover 216 EFI.

Surely that other great Coupé, the Suzuki X90, should join them at the top?

Talking of Rovers, the 220 Tomcat turbo Coupe will be a classic in the making...

Oh a serious note, the mk1 Audi TT is contender. In 15 years or so.

I saw one of those on the Kingsway last week.
Driven by a man

Been mentioned above, nice example > Fiat Strada 130TC

I don't believe that for a moment, are you positive it wasn't a flat chested "handsome" woman?

She had a partially shaved head, leaving a ring of short hair at a level above the ears.
Mind you, for Dundee, that's probably a handsome woman

Left field choice....Renault avantime....Citroen c6....Subaru svx, these are already going up....cx gti turbo 2, maybe bx16v gti...smart roadster