Kids - paying rent...

Last year was one of unrivalled shitness financially - in a different way from Truffle - but with similar results. Unfortunately, we haven't cracked it and the fun continues (it's just Tesco Value fun).
Last summer my stepdaughter took her A-levels and did very well. However, she did very non-academic subjects and, with no career path in mind, decided against going to university and acquiring £30k of debt with no clear objective or likely job at the end of it.
So, she now works roughly 20 hours per week at a kiddie-centric retail chain. She has been promised a management traineeship, but this has not so far materialised and she remains on a wage somewhat below the legal minimum. I'm not sure how this can pertain, but apparently it is both legal and common practice.

As she is over 18, she is now classed as an adult and thus we no longer get child allowance (or whatever it's called) for her, which is as it should be. However, it does leave an even bigger hole in the family finances, as we are now a household of 3 adults and 2 kids, not 4 kids and 2 adults. This also affects Council Tax and a variety of other expenses.

Charming as she is, she shows no sign whatsoever of pulling her weight around the house, moaning more than her younger brothers when asked to perform the minimum of chores and frequently forgetting or just not bothering. Certainly no question of shouldering some responsibility.

How much should we be asking her to contribute? I guess she earns around £120 per week (gross) leaving her with not much less net, as she'll struggle to go over the tax threshold. I reckon £25 per week is fair enough, as she gets everything at home from hot baths to broadband.

Anyone any ideas about how to encourage kids to learn to grow up or move out...?

£25 sounds good for her Jim. I was paying £30 per week at home over 30 years ago.

Jim,

When my daughter got to 18 she already had a plan in place and was ready to move out as soon as she could. She too didn't want to burden herself with large debt from Uni, but has managed to get on and is in a reasonable managerial position these days.

Back then she did struggle for a bit and had low paid jobs, but did manage to pay here way (just). In a reverse of providing cheap 'home' accommodation, we were just around to provide a bit of financial support when needed.

For the few months before she did go we did charge a 'rent' and I would think it probably equates to the same sort of relative value you are thinking about. £25 - £30 is probably enough as a percentage so that she realises things don't come free, but allows her to still retain a reasonable amount.

If it's too low then there's no incentive to leave in the future ... too much and you don't leave them enough to save even a little.

Actually when they have grown up and gone, they always need help sometime - doesn't really ever stop!

I paid my sister £200 per month when I was 18 before moving in with my then girlfriend a year later .

I had no choice. My mum kept a house in the South while I was still at college but had always told me that she'd be moving to the midlands shortly after I finished.

Moving in with my dad meant he quickly laid down the law and told me to get a job or eff off. I ended up moving in with my sister around the same time as getting a job but she couldn't afford to have me there not paying.

At the time, I remember thinking that both of my parent's ultimatums were hollow and I had no motivation to get a job and pay my way. It wasn't until my dad gave me a week to et out that I realised the gravity of the situation and got my act together.

Thanks for the replies. We don't want to force her out, just to take some responsibility and realise that, as an adult, the world is a different place. She would love to find a place of her own in due course, but that is just not realistic in Cambridge, where even houseshares cost more than she could afford.

I agree with the £25, and she also needs to know that she still has to pull her weight around the house. I was surprised with Ms RK's little girl just how idle and grotty girls can be. Every bit as bad as boys.

Apparently rent entitles them to all the advantages of home life without the inconvenience of contributing to the chores.

My parents were eager to get me to goto uni, neither of them had had the opportunity and as my older sister had chosen to not do much after her gcse's, they didnt want me hovering along on the min wage or whatever.

So i was told, whilst i was in education they would help me financially but if i was working and living at home then i would pay £50 a week in rent.

Ultimately i decided retail wasnt for me and went to uni anyway, ONCE i had figured out what it was i wanted to do in life. (It took me till i was 22 to figure that out, so just warning u) !

As in your case, Truffle, we would continue to support my stepdaughter if she continued in full time education; we agree with her choice not to go to Uni just for the sake of postponing a decision on what career path she wants to take. Roadking has hit the nail on the head - if she were a willing volunteer to help around the house, we might not be having the discussion, but any help has to be dragged from her. As I translate the evenings away after a full day in the office, hearing her wondering aloud from the sofa about which festivals she's going to this summer and what clothes to buy, it's clear that she hasn't grasped the concept of adulthood quite yet.
We don't want to be unfair on her, but we do want her to understand that a) even the essentials of life come at a cost and b) she still needs to contribute around the house (yes, isn't it unfair?).

The least she needs to contribute would be what you've lost in child allowance.
If her cost around the house has increased subsequent to that ceasing - for example her share of the Council Tax - then I would add that to her rent as well.

I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but you need to make sure you and MrsC are both united in this, without the stepdaughter trying to get her mum on side to make you look like the bad meany.

Also, could be worth doing:

Good point Begbie - I like the wifi code idea!

Although I have realised that the role of mean stepdad comes all too naturally, in this instance it is being led by MrsC, who - more often than me - has suffered the sharp-tongued responses from stepdaughter.
Also, unlike her daughter, MrsC left school (unofficially, obviously) at 13 and was managing a restaurant by the time she was 15. She has a good appreciation of the value of a comfortable home and also of independence.

By TimR's calculation, we're charging perhaps a little over the odds, but I think it's fair to add on slightly more than just our increased costs.

I can just see her saying that none of her friends pay rent and begrudging you. Can you help her see why the family circumstances are different and perhaps the sacrifices you are all making to keep the roof over her head and bread on the table?

Would it help to try a really adult conversation? Take her through a spreadsheet of the family finances, what's coming in and what's going out and then explain why as part of the family you need/would like her to help.

Or maybe even involve her in thinking about what she can do to help - what can she cut back on to reduce the rent you will need? Involve her in the thought process before concluding rent is the way forward and the appropriate amount, rather than present it as a fait accompli.

I would suggest maybe a sliding scale of "rent". If she want to treat the house like a hotel (ah a phrase that brings back memories...) perhaps she would like a bill from one?

Maybe £25 if she does her fair share, if she doesn't do them then she pays more.

I think its more than fair she pays more the your costs increase - she still getting everything else FOC - but perhaps the discussion emjay suggested can be used to establish ground rules and get some agreement.

Love the WiFi idea, might use that in the future, although at least my eldest is already well aware that I'm capable of removing his tablet from the Wifi access list on the router via mobile phone without leaving my seat. Powah!!

The £25/week seems perfectly reasonable to me. I paid that about that 20 odd years ago when I lived at home and was working (albeit I was on a fair amount more than minimum wage).

We have had the "none of my friends" spiel from all of the kids. when I used it as a child it didn't wash with my parents and as a parent it doesn't wash coming from my kids/stepkids. Which is not to say that I don't understand the fundamental unfairness of life to a teenager, but as stepdaughter has indeed been involved in the family finance discussions in a very grown up way, she can see the irrelevance of her largely very well-off friends' situations. She will doubtless begrudge paying us anything, but not from any logical standpoint. This is why MrsC and I find it most disappointing; she has always been very grown-up for her age, so to see her behaving like the archetypal spoilt teenager is a bit irksome!

This will not come as a surprise - we have discussed it before and invited her to suggest ways to contribute. As of her 19th birthday last November, we agreed with her that we would no longer pay her mobile bill and that she would set up a standing order for the amount to us. But she hasn't. We've explained the situation with regard to Council Tax and the end of child allowance. She has seen how hard her mum has struggled to search for a job without success and yet has never volunteered to help clean, tidy, cook or otherwise assist.
In short, we have tried many times to elicit an appropriate response through dialogue, now is the time for sanctions!

One good idea is to put them in charge of a utility bill. You will be amazed then to come hoem to a cold and dark house everyday and watch with awe as they go about the house turning off lights closing doors and perfecting the art of filling the dishwasher efficiently.

You need to see what the standard gas/electric bills are and if they are too high agree to pay the first x amount but otherwise this has a four fold effect. It gets them used to the consequences of wastage, appreciation of how much these things costs, you save money and the house has a lower carbon footprint

I quite like the utility bill idea. The problem is that her two younger brothers would take enormous delight in ensuring that she paid more, not less. Never underestimate the power and deviousness of sibling rivalry.

Oh yes and my two now pay £100 a month each and they have not moaned about this despite many of their friends not having to pay anything. Agree with advice above in that whatever you you you must be united in the approach.

Sounds like a bit of tough love / reality needs to be brought upon her. Tell her you have asked for the PAC code from the network provider. It is now her responsibility to sort out a new phone contract under her own name and payment details. Then, maybe then, she might start taking the hint that things are starting to get very real.

We are definitely united in our approach and have carefully considered what we want to achieve, rather than just wanting to give her a slap with a financial wet fish.

We'll see how the discussions go; if she has any ideas or suggestions, we'll consider them, but otherwise she will have to adjust to the new regime. If she doesn't start paying for her phone after another warning, I'll just cancel the contract. It will be a tough lesson as I doubt she'll be able to negotiate as good a deal as we've got her...

Sounds good but a deadline is always helpful in focusing the mind. i.e. sort out payment for the phone by xx or it WILL be cancelled and she will loose the number no PAC code no number to be ported just cancelled.

If you want a more soft approach but still make her start paying what about changing the account to PAYG?

Take half her take home pay a week, cut off her phone. Sounds tough but you if things are as tight as they sound you need to make the sensible changes not just for her but everyone. It's amazing how much money you can save with a little effort. Trust me we are just coming out of a similar situation, Good Luck Jim

£25 a week seems more than fair to me.
When I first started working I earnt £140 a week, but some was taxed back then unlike now so probably had £120 a week to myself same as your daughter. I was paying £150 a month rent so more than the £25 a week you are suggesting.

As you said now she is an adult she will be costing you more. You are £13.40 a week out of pocket on child benefit alone, so to me her paying £25 is a no brainer.

Also being the evil step-dad is just part of the job as I've discovered in arguments with my step-daughter as of recent.

Shifty - don't worry, we know all about ruthless cost cutting; we're more austere than that t*rd Osborne. Not sure how he survives on his meagre family wealth, but it's comforting to know we're all in it together... I think many people are discovering to their shock just how quickly you can fall into an almost inescapable black hole. We are a long way off getting out of ours...

Back on topic, I think we'll stick with our plan, but because of her hectic social life, we rarely seem to see stepdaughter these days in order to explain. She has some quality time with her mum next week, which might be put to constructive use - if MrsC has the stomach for 4 days with a sulking diva.

Thanks everyone for your contributions.

When you say she now works 20 hrs/week... can't she do a bit more in a restaurant or so?